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Old
02-17-2013, 08:58 PM
  #1
CobraAcesS
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Jamie McGinn

Ok maybe I should wait until 17GP but we are close enough.

Remember how impressed we all were with McGinn coming over? Everyone thought, 'Ok if he can even score at close to the same pace' most of us talking about goals... He is one hell of an acquisition.

Well hes scored at an even better pace, it hasn't been in goals per say. But he is contributing everywhere on the ice, setting up plays, and breaking pucks lose. This is pretty impressive considering we all know he had a pretty dry start to the year, this year.

2011-2012 : GP- 17 / G- 8 / A- 5 / P- 13 / +/- -4 / PIM- 11 / GWG- 2 / SOG- 55 / S% 14.5

62.07 Points over an 82 game schedule

2012-2013 : GP- 13 / G- 2 / A- 8 / P- 10 / +/- 0 / PIM- 13 / GWG- 1 / SOG- 43 / S% 4.3

63.08 Points over an 82 game schedule

McGinn's highest production year was last year at 37 points total.

Obviously no one thinks his current shooting percentage is going to continue at 4.3% or that hes going to start hitting at 14.5% either. But hes shooting the puck, hitting and contributing in points even though hes been a bit snake bitten.

If he had buried a few of those shots that went off the posts and crossbar, he'd be even farther over his production from last year.

I'd say Duchene is getting a lot of credit for how hes came back this year but this is some pretty exciting **** when it comes to McGinn, and I think everyone who has watched the Avs games this year knows that McGinn could have a bit more on the board than he does.

I just wanted to highlight this, and give McGinn some much needed credit for continuing his production from last year. Even finding a different way to do it on a different line. I know there is only a few bright spots about this team this year, but he is definitely one of them.

(If he really does put up a 60-65 point pace this year, I think he enters the 'core' level player discussion for us. Especially with him only being 24.)

---Edit---

From a question about Primary vs Secondary assists Lonewolf asked, I'll re-post it here to highlight that a majority of his assists have been primary assists.

-----
1 Secondary Assist on PAP's Goal vs EDM (Jan 28th)

--
1 Primary assist on PAP's Goal vs CGY (Jan 31)

1 Secondary assist on Stastny's PPG vs CGY (Jan 31)

--
1 Goal vs EDM (Feb 2nd)

1 Primary assist on PAP's Goal vs EDM (Feb 2nd)

--
1 Secondary Assist on PAP's PPG vs DAL (Feb 4th)

--
1 Primary Assist on Hejduk's PPG vs MIN (Feb 14th)

--
1 Goal vs EDM (Feb 16th)

1 Primary Assist on Duchene's Goal vs EDM (Feb 16th)

1 Primary Assist on Mitchell's PPG vs EDM (Feb 16th)


Last edited by CobraAcesS: 02-17-2013 at 10:02 PM.
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02-17-2013, 09:07 PM
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Lonewolfe2015
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How many of his assists were secondary? Normally I wouldn't put much stock in that, but I seriously believe he's just getting lucky in assists and unlucky in goals, because I've hardly noticed any spectacular passes by him offensively.

I will agree in other areas, he compliments duchy and pap great with his physical nature and puck hounding abilities.

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02-17-2013, 09:09 PM
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I think he be fine....if we played the oilers all the time

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02-17-2013, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by The Kingslayer View Post
I think he be fine....if we played the oilers all the time
oh god, he's arnason

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02-17-2013, 09:10 PM
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Hans Landaskog
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I really like Jamie McGinn, I'm not sure I like him as the long-term solution for Duchene's LW.

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02-17-2013, 09:11 PM
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He sucked on Stastny's line but improved with Duchene's. hmmm.

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02-17-2013, 09:21 PM
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Hans Landaskog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
He sucked on Stastny's line but improved with Duchene's. hmmm.
I blame Jones

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02-17-2013, 09:22 PM
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CobraAcesS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
How many of his assists were secondary? Normally I wouldn't put much stock in that, but I seriously believe he's just getting lucky in assists and unlucky in goals, because I've hardly noticed any spectacular passes by him offensively.

I will agree in other areas, he compliments duchy and pap great with his physical nature and puck hounding abilities.
Here is his advanced stats page, not sure where to find assists vs secondary assists. http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=1025

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02-17-2013, 09:25 PM
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He's not that involved in play, but he hits people, skates decently enough and know when to get in the slot with his stick down. I think he can be a consistent 20+ goal scorer and perhaps even better in a career year.

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02-17-2013, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Hans Landaskog View Post
I blame Jones
I really think Davy is in it for the tank this year.
He wants another Jones on this team so nobody will think of the bad Jones but the good Jones when they hear Avs and Jones

Oh and the tank of Jones for Jones runs with vodka.

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02-17-2013, 09:27 PM
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RobinDIF
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
He sucked on Stastny's line but improved with Duchene's. hmmm.
Not last year. Way to few games to judge.. Both with Duchene and Stastny.

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02-17-2013, 09:58 PM
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CobraAcesS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
How many of his assists were secondary? Normally I wouldn't put much stock in that, but I seriously believe he's just getting lucky in assists and unlucky in goals, because I've hardly noticed any spectacular passes by him offensively.

I will agree in other areas, he compliments duchy and pap great with his physical nature and puck hounding abilities.
Ok just because I was curious, I went and looked. Here is his scoring break down. 5 primary assists, 3 secondary assists... So him being 'Lucky' does not seem to be the case.

-----
1 Secondary Assist on PAP's Goal vs EDM (Jan 28th)

--
1 Primary assist on PAP's Goal vs CGY (Jan 31)

1 Secondary assist on Stastny's PPG vs CGY (Jan 31)

--
1 Goal vs EDM (Feb 2nd)

1 Primary assist on PAP's Goal vs EDM (Feb 2nd)

--
1 Secondary Assist on PAP's PPG vs DAL (Feb 4th)

--
1 Primary Assist on Hejduk's PPG vs MIN (Feb 14th)

--
1 Goal vs EDM (Feb 16th)

1 Primary Assist on Duchene's Goal vs EDM (Feb 16th)

1 Primary Assist on Mitchell's PPG vs EDM (Feb 16th)

Looking at this, all of his secondary assists have come on power play goals. Interesting..

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02-17-2013, 10:03 PM
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I don't like McGInn as much as most of you. I still see him as a 3rd liner whose production has been boosted as a result of playing big minutes with better players. He's a 50-60 pt guy on a poor team. But at least he isn't as useless as Parenteau defensively. My gosh Parenteau's lack of hockey sense, I have no idea how that guy manages to put up that many pts.

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02-17-2013, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Here is his advanced stats page, not sure where to find assists vs secondary assists. http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=1025
You can find first assists right on that page under "First A". Over last 2 years he has 20 5v5 assists, 15 of them are first assists.

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02-17-2013, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by HockeyAnalysis View Post
You can find first assists right on that page under "First A". Over last 2 years he has 20 5v5 assists, 15 of them are first assists.
Yeah but I was curious just as to this year. (And haven't used that page much, lol) I think hes doing his job, fighting pucks off the wall and getting it to PAP & Duchene. He could have more goals if he had buried more of his chances, because hes definitely getting them.

I just think this highlights that he has continued to be the smart & gritty power forward he was when he came over. He obviously hasn't deflated after a hot stint post-trade. Which is what I'm trying to prove...

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02-17-2013, 10:07 PM
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Interesting. Guess we'll have to see how the season shakes out. I'm still sticking to the luck argument to be honest. He's not Brandon Yip lucky, that was a trainwreck you could see coming a mile away. But he's definitely not a 60 point winger. More like a 45-50 putting in 25 goals during a good season.

I like him with Duchy, sometimes you need glue players to make a line work. Before he was moved with Duchy, Duchy was less effective. The trio of them seem to work well together and have only gotten better as the season progressed, elevating all of them games.

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02-17-2013, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Interesting. Guess we'll have to see how the season shakes out. I'm still sticking to the luck argument to be honest. He's not Brandon Yip lucky, that was a trainwreck you could see coming a mile away. But he's definitely not a 60 point winger. More like a 45-50 putting in 25 goals during a good season.

I like him with Duchy, sometimes you need glue players to make a line work. Before he was moved with Duchy, Duchy was less effective. The trio of them seem to work well together and have only gotten better as the season progressed, elevating all of them games.
Well I hope he continues to prove you wrong, lol. I think he can be a 60 point clear cut top 6 power forward, and I also think we have more to see from him when it comes to goals. I've been a bit of a homer with him since he came over but I think somewhere around 30/30 is very possible. I should say that... I think his assists depend on if hes playing with people who can put the puck in the net a benefit from his abilities along the wall.

Playing with Stastny I think hes more of a pure goals guy, but with Duchene and PAP, especially Duchene... His assists will be more on par with his goal totals. I like that everyone on that line can put the puck in the net, Parenteau has been a good surprise in that area but we knew Duchene could put the puck in the net. All three of them are threats and I think it creates more space for each one. I also like McGinn's speed with Duchene, where Landeskog isn't as fast and may be a better fit with Stastny. Stastny and O'Reilly are far closer in comparison than Duchene and O'Reilly obviously, when it comes to the type of game they play.

Can't wait to see Landeskog back, and on Stastny's wing. I hate Jones though... McGinn has done enough for me to only feel like we need to replace one of our top 6 wingers going forward (That being Jones.. blah).


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02-17-2013, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Kloparren View Post
I don't like McGInn as much as most of you. I still see him as a 3rd liner whose production has been boosted as a result of playing big minutes with better players. He's a 50-60 pt guy on a poor team. But at least he isn't as useless as Parenteau defensively. My gosh Parenteau's lack of hockey sense, I have no idea how that guy manages to put up that many pts.
Aside from a few bad moments last game, Parenteau has been exactly the opposite of what your saying here. Hes been smart defensively, and back checking pretty hard. When hes on the ice he makes smart simple decisions and puts out 100% effort every shift.

Can't quite agree with any of this... Not only from what we have seen, but the stats don't back you up at all. On either player..

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02-17-2013, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Kloparren View Post
I don't like McGInn as much as most of you. I still see him as a 3rd liner whose production has been boosted as a result of playing big minutes with better players. He's a 50-60 pt guy on a poor team. But at least he isn't as useless as Parenteau defensively. My gosh Parenteau's lack of hockey sense, I have no idea how that guy manages to put up that many pts.
I don't agree with basically anything you just said

First off, 50-60 points on ANY team in the NHL is pretty darn good. That is, statistically, in the realm of almost ALL of the 2nd line players on every team in the league, contenders that is.

Second off, I never understood how that could be a negative. So he gets more minutes with better players, and he PRODUCES, and you still expect more from him LOL. He's a young guy who has been a grinder his entire NHL career, and now that he's producing with minutes, you just say "Oh, he must be overachieving".

Did you see his wrist shot last night against Edmonton? It was beautious.

And thirdly, Parenteau is NOT bad defensively and I have no idea where you are coming from with this lack of hockey IQ nonsense. He wouldn't be nearly PPG if he didn't have some hockey sense. He also backchecks like a demon on speed, I've seen it with my own two eyes.

Sir, you've convinced me that you only watch the highlights

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02-17-2013, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Hans Landaskog View Post
I really like Jamie McGinn, I'm not sure I like him as the long-term solution for Duchene's LW.
He's really only there because of the Landeskog injury

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02-17-2013, 11:13 PM
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He's really only there because of the Landeskog injury
Would you really replace McGinn with Landeskog though? Instead of giving us two more legit lines in :

McGinn - Duchene - Parenteau

Landeskog - Stastny - Jones

Gawd I hate Jones... But anyways... Because of Landeskog teams actually would have to decide which line to put their best defenders out against. McGinn is working fine on Duchene's wing and Stastny is closer to playing with O'Reilly than Duchene is any day.

Did I say that Jones was the only ugly part of that top 6 group? Barf..

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02-17-2013, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Would you really replace McGinn with Landeskog though? Instead of giving us two more legit lines in :

McGinn - Duchene - Parenteau

Landeskog - Stastny - Jones

Gawd I hate Jones... But anyways... Because of Landeskog teams actually would have to decide which line to put their best defenders out against. McGinn is working fine on Duchene's wing and Stastny is closer to playing with O'Reilly than Duchene is any day.

Did I say that Jones was the only ugly part of that top 6 group? Barf..
Well, to be fair, I have much less of a problem having McGinn on Duchene's line than others might. He's a tough dude and WILL fight when need be, say, if some assclown takes a run at Duchene, and he's got decent passing skills and a good shot. He's also a good skater and looks to be able to keep up with Dutchy. I say let him stay, he plays his ass off and therefore should earn the time, especially when he plays defense too.

I also feel like he plays a game that is very complementary to the style Duchene plays. He's fast, he's pretty good on the rush, he's physical, and he isn't afraid to go in front of the net or fight in the corners for a loose puck. I'm not one little bit surprised that he has 2g-8a in 13gp, and if he works as hard as he has been, he will keep putting up respectable point totals.


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02-17-2013, 11:36 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kloparren View Post
I don't like McGInn as much as most of you. I still see him as a 3rd liner whose production has been boosted as a result of playing big minutes with better players. He's a 50-60 pt guy on a poor team. But at least he isn't as useless as Parenteau defensively. My gosh Parenteau's lack of hockey sense, I have no idea how that guy manages to put up that many pts.
Definitely think he's a 2nd liner. He's essentially played on our 2nd line last year and now on our 1st line and he hasn't looked out of place or having a hard time contributing like say a guy like Bates Battaglia did when he was brought over.

The Avs knew what they were doing when they targeted this player last year. Clearly talented but needing a REAL opportunity and not a few shifts here and there with a bunch of guys ahead on the depth chart. He got it and made the most of it. Even though we've been shutout THREE times already this season, McGinn has had good opportunities in pretty much every game...he's pretty consistent. I don't really remember him having a bad game so far this year...I remember the Avs playing poor collectively but I can't really single him out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Interesting. Guess we'll have to see how the season shakes out. I'm still sticking to the luck argument to be honest. He's not Brandon Yip lucky, that was a trainwreck you could see coming a mile away. But he's definitely not a 60 point winger. More like a 45-50 putting in 25 goals during a good season.

I like him with Duchy, sometimes you need glue players to make a line work. Before he was moved with Duchy, Duchy was less effective. The trio of them seem to work well together and have only gotten better as the season progressed, elevating all of them games.
I think he's got a chance at 30 goals someday...he's got a real knack for scoring goals, kind of Luc Robitaille-ish but not to that extreme, obviously.

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02-17-2013, 11:56 PM
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I doubt he'll ever be more than a 20-goal guy, but he's not out of place on a scoring line. So long as he continues to knock the opposition around and crash the net, he'll create chances for himself and his linemates.

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02-18-2013, 12:00 AM
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Definitely think he's a 2nd liner. He's essentially played on our 2nd line last year and now on our 1st line and he hasn't looked out of place or having a hard time contributing like say a guy like Bates Battaglia did when he was brought over.

The Avs knew what they were doing when they targeted this player last year. Clearly talented but needing a REAL opportunity and not a few shifts here and there with a bunch of guys ahead on the depth chart. He got it and made the most of it. Even though we've been shutout THREE times already this season, McGinn has had good opportunities in pretty much every game...he's pretty consistent. I don't really remember him having a bad game so far this year...I remember the Avs playing poor collectively but I can't really single him out.



I think he's got a chance at 30 goals someday...he's got a real knack for scoring goals, kind of Luc Robitaille-ish but not to that extreme, obviously.
I think we are going to have to put you in the McGinn homer category with me, lol. Personally I love Landeskog & McGinn as our #1 & #2 on the left side for the future.

McGinn is in my personal 'core player' list moving forward because of his age and what hes showing. I know plenty of people wouldn't be willing to count him as a core player yet though.

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