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OTT-COL Trade proposal

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Old
02-11-2005, 11:54 AM
  #26
GUIDO OHASIS
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Tanguay = Coat Tail Rider

 
Old
02-11-2005, 12:05 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GUIDO OHASIS
Tanguay = Coat Tail Rider
Who's FREAKING COAT?

Forsberg was out for half the season last year...

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Old
02-11-2005, 12:11 PM
  #28
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Ok, I Thought I Read Martin Havlat In Epilson's Post, Not Marian Hossa!

My Apologies, My Friends And Hfboards Colleagues!

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Old
02-11-2005, 12:13 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny Lamateena
I'm not disputing Tanguay isn't talented, i'm just saying he's not as talented as his linemates. If i needed a goal in the last minute, i'de rather have any combination of Hejduk, Forsberg or Sakic over Tanguay. Also i think if you add two years of development to Havlat and put him on last years avs team he produces better numbers then Tanguay did, actually even without the two years of development he outscores him on that team. Bottom line Havlat is a better player right now.
Saying that you would rather have Forsberg, Sakic, and Hejduk over Tanguay is not saying much. Those are three of the best scorers in the game. I might rather have those guys too, but that certainly doesn't suggest that Tanguay isn't also an elite scorer.

I don't see how you can say Havlat is a "better player now." I think Havlat has done great, but for now, Tanguay is more proven and has accomplished more.

If personally would not do Havlat for Tanguay straight up, because I love Havlat's upside. But, I think you are selling a major talent short here.

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Old
02-11-2005, 12:21 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaDdY
How about Havlat- Schaefer for Hejduk

:lol

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Old
02-11-2005, 12:34 PM
  #31
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So no one likes Havlat-White for Tanguay-Gratton?

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Old
02-11-2005, 12:36 PM
  #32
Sonny Lamateena
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U may be right, i might be selling him a little short but i still maintain Havlat is the superior player. If they were traded for each other i see Havlat easily surpassing Tanguay's Colorado numbers and Tanguay being hard pressed to match Havlat's Ottawa numbers.

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Old
02-11-2005, 12:39 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ismellofhockey
There's no doubt that Tanguay is a special player, his success in the playoffs makes him even more valuable but he's also 2 years older than Havlat with a much heftier contract.
Havlat's been pretty good in the playoffs too and he hasn't played on Sakic's wing.

I don't see why Colorado would make the deal unless a cap forces them to shed salary and Tanguay doesn't address Ottawa's need of a PF though he does provide playoff scoring from the LW.

But can Tanguay be as successful without Sakic? Havlat's too much to ask from Ottawa to answer that question when Tanguay isn't a PF and costs so much.

I guess neither Colorado or Ottawa are inclined to make this deal though the value seems closer than most here admit to.

Tanguay was last year, and before getting hurt was leading the league in assits and looked like he would win the points title....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny Lamateena
I'm not disputing Tanguay isn't talented, i'm just saying he's not as talented as his linemates. If i needed a goal in the last minute, i'de rather have any combination of Hejduk, Forsberg or Sakic over Tanguay. Also i think if you add two years of development to Havlat and put him on last years avs team he produces better numbers then Tanguay did, actually even without the two years of development he outscores him on that team. Bottom line Havlat is a better player right now.
I completely disagree. Tanguay is much more complete at this stage, and frankly, he plays at a higher level than Havlat does right now in just about all aspects of their game. Will Havlat get there? Likely, but right now, he WANTS to reach Tanguays level.....he isn't above it.

As for Tanguay not producing in Ottawa, you have to be kidding me! Tanguay is one of the elite LW of this league. He would dominate on an Ottawa team that is chock full of finishers and is in dire need of a RW. Tanguays strength is his amazing vision. He makes his teammates better. His scoring ability is underrated largely because he has had Hejduk on his line for so long, but he can still put the puck in the net at a good clip to go along with a ton of assists.

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Last edited by Enoch: 02-11-2005 at 12:46 PM.
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Old
02-11-2005, 12:40 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bert
So no one likes Havlat-White for Tanguay-Gratton?
Doesn't look like it and only one poster liked the original proposal.

Havlat for Tanguay doesn't change anything, fill any holes for either team. All it does is annoy the fan bases because their best young offensive forwards have been traded away.

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Old
02-11-2005, 12:42 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny Lamateena
U may be right, i might be selling him a little short but i still maintain Havlat is the superior player. If they were traded for each other i see Havlat easily surpassing Tanguay's Colorado numbers and Tanguay being hard pressed to match Havlat's Ottawa numbers.
How many stanley cups Havlat has won so far?

yeah none

Tanguay 1 stanley cup!

And someone said that tanguay "can't" score so many points without sakic,forsberg,hejduk ... Okay first off example.. Do you guys remember Teemu Selanne? He played with Forsberg,Sakic,Kariya,Hejduk but scored only 30 points in 80 games. You have to be good, if u are gonna score in nhl, it doesn't matter if u play with players like Sakic,Forsberg or Hejduk if u can't play!

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Old
02-11-2005, 12:47 PM
  #36
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Tanguay is a left winger it does fill a whole. Gratton is good on faceoffs that fills a hole.

Havlat is the most explosive player in the deal he holds the most value. Plus Colorado has a bloated payrole that will have to be reduced before the NHL returns. Both Havlat and White makes significantly less amounts of money then Tanguay and Gratton.

White is a proven 50 point player that is cheap and can play a two way role. He fills Colorado's third line center role perfectly and can step up into the top two lines if there is an injury.

To me it makes sense for both teams. Ottawa's lineup is now balanced.

Tanguay Spezza Hossa
Vermette Smolinski Alfredsson
Schaefer Gratton Fisher
Varada Kelly Neil
Langfeld


Last edited by bert: 02-11-2005 at 01:03 PM.
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Old
02-11-2005, 12:50 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Color@do @v@l@nche
How many stanley cups Havlat has won so far?

yeah none

Tanguay 1 stanley cup!

And someone said that tanguay "can't" score so many points without sakic,forsberg,hejduk ... Okay first off example.. Do you guys remember Teemu Selanne? He played with Forsberg,Sakic,Kariya,Hejduk but scored only 30 points in 80 games. You have to be good, if u are gonna score in nhl, it doesn't matter if u play with players like Sakic,Forsberg or Hejduk if u can't play!
Yep, definitely agree with u, Tanguay is better then Selanne. But i still wouldn't trade Martin Havlat for him. If the NHL ever starts up again we will see what Havlat can do about that Stanley Cup thing.

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Old
02-11-2005, 12:59 PM
  #38
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First off, anyone who still calls Tanguay a coat rider needs to try to think for themselves, because they prove to be nothing but sheep in the end.

Second off, the trade is about on par valuewise, but doesn't make much sense. The Avs need to keep Tanguay since he's pretty much the centerpiece of what kind of youth core they still have left. Getting Havlat for Tanguay is a lateral move IMO.

I don't think the Avs would want to part with the resources to get Hossa. It'd cost Hejduk and something else significant just to get Ottawa talking.

Bottom line is that Colorado and Ottawa don't make the best trading partners at the moment. If the Avs want to dance, the ideal partner is a team with an overabundance of youth and a need to deal some of it.

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Old
02-11-2005, 01:01 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Color@do @v@l@nche
How many stanley cups Havlat has won so far?

Tanguay 1/19th of a stanley cup!
Quick edit.

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Old
02-11-2005, 01:04 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary
Quick edit.
Yeah, I've never liked the argument of "well player A has a Stanley Cup and so and so doesn't, so the player A is the better player." It's like saying Chris Dingman with his 2 Stanely Cups is better than Mats Sundin. However, I think it'd be wrong to completely gloss over Tanguay's importance to the 2001 run and specifically Game 7--but it's not the sole reason why I would say he's a better player than Havlat (at the moment).

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Old
02-11-2005, 01:06 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon


First of all, Hossa is worth far more than Tanguay. Next, your second statement is ridiculous. A team that has employed Peter Forsberg and Claude Lemieux, among others, doesn't want "dirty" players? Save the holier-than-thou garbage for a situation where it actually applies.

First of all, how is my statement "holier than thou garbage"? Point out where I Forsberg or Lemieux weren't dirty players? Havlat is a dirty coward, plain and simple. I agree Hossa is worth more than Tanguay. Ask yourself though, why would Colorado flip players whose worth is equal?

If I were Lacroix, I might consider a deal like this:

Tanguay, Boychuk

for

Havlat, Meszaros

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Old
02-11-2005, 01:20 PM
  #42
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I'm gonna have to agree to disagree with all the Tanguay fans out there. I'll take a 23 year old Martin Havlat's sick moves, 31 goals and a point per game pace as the Sens 3rd line RW with significanly less ice time every day of the week.

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Old
02-11-2005, 01:24 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny Lamateena
I'm gonna have to agree to disagree with all the Tanguay fans out there. I'll take a 23 year old Martin Havlat's sick moves, 31 goals and a point per game pace as the Sens 3rd line RW with significanly less ice time every day of the week.
And I'll take an Alex Tanguay who was leading the league in scoring while carrying an Avs team on his back when Peter Forsberg was injured and Joe Sakic was slumping.

Agree to disagree I guess.

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Old
02-11-2005, 04:03 PM
  #44
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I'd take Tanguay over Havlat, for the Sens, if only because Tanguay is a capable left winger.
I think they are even, though. I'd rather take the Schaefer for Gratton aspect out of the deal and throw in a third pick.

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Old
02-11-2005, 04:17 PM
  #45
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factor in pierre's history with contract squabblers and havlat in colorado doesn't seem like a good match

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Old
02-11-2005, 06:55 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny Lamateena
U may be right, i might be selling him a little short but i still maintain Havlat is the superior player. If they were traded for each other i see Havlat easily surpassing Tanguay's Colorado numbers and Tanguay being hard pressed to match Havlat's Ottawa numbers.
Superior in what way though? While Forsberg missed half the season last year it was Tanguay that carried Coloardo for the most part.

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Old
02-11-2005, 07:00 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flame_Star_Devil
Hossa is worth about two Tanguays.
Hossa is worth more but maybe a 3rd is all.

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Old
02-12-2005, 12:21 AM
  #48
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More or less lateral. I couldnt see this trade working either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by borro
Hossa is worth more but maybe a 3rd is all.


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Old
02-12-2005, 03:08 AM
  #49
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Havlat is a proven ppg player while playing 16.7 minutes per game, most of it on the 3rd line. Tanguay on the other hand, too is a proven ppg player, but averaged 18.4 minutes per game last season, not to mention he played on the first line along side either Joe Sakic or Peter Forsberg.

Nothing to take away from Alex Tanguay, by no means is he a leech, but you're bound to have your stats increased if you're a constant linemate of Sakic/Forsberg. I rather have a player who can put up ppg figures with lesser linemates than one who does it with arguably the 2 best forwards in the game. Not to mention in fewer minutes.

I'd like to see the two switch sides. It wouldn't shock me if Havlat would contend for the Art-Ross playing along side either Sakic/Hedjuk or Forsberg/Hedjuk. Whereas I highly doubt Tanguay will lead the league in assists having Petr Schaefer and Spezza/White as your linemates on the 3rd line.

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Old
02-12-2005, 03:13 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ott = Snott
Havlat is a proven ppg player while playing 16.7 minutes per game, most of it on the 3rd line. Tanguay on the other hand, too is a proven ppg player, but averaged 18.4 minutes per game last season, not to mention he played on the first line along side either Joe Sakic or Peter Forsberg.

Nothing to take away from Alex Tanguay, by no means is he a leech, but you're bound to have your stats increased if you're a constant linemate of Sakic/Forsberg. I rather have a player who can put up ppg figures with lesser linemates than one who does it with arguably the 2 best forwards in the game. Not to mention in fewer minutes.
A difference of 1.7 minutes per game does not make a big difference.

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