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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Dallas News: Despite lockout, Stars' Gaglardi upbeat a year after purchase

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Old
11-18-2012, 02:58 AM
  #1
Fugu
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Dallas News: Despite lockout, Stars' Gaglardi upbeat a year after purchase

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/dal...-purchase.ece?

Quote:
His team hasn’t made the playoffs in four years and there is very little hockey buzz in Texas. And yet, the new guy seems resolute that progress still can be made — and is being made right now.“We feel really good about where we’re going, and I do believe we will be able to reach our goal eventually of where we would like to be financially,” Gaglardi said. “This [lockout] throws a wrench into the timeline, but we also understand that’s part of the process, and it’s part of being in a pro sports league.”
Gaglardi said that the Stars are behind in their plan to bring fans back to hockey, and he said he really doesn’t know how to forecast exact numbers because he really doesn’t know how much damage is being done by the lockout. But he said the infrastructure is in place for on-ice success, marketing and ticket sales.

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11-18-2012, 03:05 AM
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He is still naive with his new toy. In 5 years he will be tired of losing his shirt.

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11-18-2012, 03:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
He is still naive with his new toy. In 5 years he will be tired of losing his shirt.
Losing his shirt? Dallas was once one of the most profitable teams in the league. Though Gaglardi will certainly have his work cut out for him, a turn around should not be looked at as impossible.

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11-18-2012, 03:15 AM
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Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
Losing his shirt? Dallas was once one of the most profitable teams in the league. Though Gaglardi will certainly have his work cut out for him, a turn around should not be looked at as impossible.
Do you have any numbers to back up that assertion?

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11-18-2012, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
Do you have any numbers to back up that assertion?
Year Stars Payroll League Average
1998-1999 $39,800,000 $29,730,833
1999-2000 $42,300,000 $31,564,167
2000-2001 $50,050,000 $33,375,943
2001-2002 $48,710,352 $38,011,852
2002-2003 $69,570,169 $41,939,715
2003-2004 $68,578,885 $44,400,490

The Stars payroll from 1998-2004 was among the highest in the league, up with the likes of the Leafs, Flyers, and Rangers. While I cannot present any financial statements from the team, the high payroll suggests that Dallas was among the most financially successful teams in the league at the time.

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11-18-2012, 03:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
Year Stars Payroll League Average
1998-1999 $39,800,000 $29,730,833
1999-2000 $42,300,000 $31,564,167
2000-2001 $50,050,000 $33,375,943
2001-2002 $48,710,352 $38,011,852
2002-2003 $69,570,169 $41,939,715
2003-2004 $68,578,885 $44,400,490

The Stars payroll from 1998-2004 was among the highest in the league, up with the likes of the Leafs, Flyers, and Rangers. While I cannot present any financial statements from the team, the high payroll suggests that Dallas was among the most financially successful teams in the league at the time.
Actually, it probably suggests they were one of the teams losing the most money during that period of time. I am sure there has never been a time when the Stars were selling out consistently with high average ticket prices. The market they are in simply cannot support average ticket prices north of $60. I don't see how Gaglardi will ever be profitable off the ice and competitive on the ice. He may be able to do one or the other but both at the same time is unlikely

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11-18-2012, 01:04 PM
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Sorry Ogopogo, but you're wrong. Dallas was one of the bigger markets before their old ownership overextended like crazy with their purchase of Liverpool and didn't have enough dough to run every team he owned.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/31/...rs_315393.html

They were ranked 5th in the league by franchise valuation back in 2007. They drew very well, had decent ticket prices, an okay TV package, and great corporate support. They are certainly on hard times right now, but just a few short years ago almost every other team in the league would've loved to be in their position.

Dallas has every potential to be a top 10 team in the league financially assuming that they're decently competitive on a habitual basis and their ownership doesn't jump off the deep end. It'll take work, but it's certainly possible, especially with the size and wealth of the Dallas market.

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11-18-2012, 03:57 PM
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I don't recall their profitability or lack thereof, but they were one of the top ten teams in revenues before the last lockout.

I think their position was enhanced by sharing the Arena Operator duties with Cuban and the Mavericks.

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11-18-2012, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
Actually, it probably suggests they were one of the teams losing the most money during that period of time. I am sure there has never been a time when the Stars were selling out consistently with high average ticket prices. The market they are in simply cannot support average ticket prices north of $60. I don't see how Gaglardi will ever be profitable off the ice and competitive on the ice. He may be able to do one or the other but both at the same time is unlikely
Did you miss the late 90's? Or are your purposely being irritable?

As the link above pointed out, in 2007 they were putting together 10.5M in operating income. That's already when the fan base was less than satisfied because the owner failed to put money together to ice a competitive team because of other business transactions (Liverpool) that resulted in him defaulting on $530 million in loans.

The Stars were one of the most successful US franchises, up there with Detroit and Colorado in the late 90's heading into the early millennium. They weren't suffering.


PS you may enjoy this graph from Forbes:
http://images.forbes.com/media/2003/...key.swf?index=

Dallas Stars from 1998-2003 were the 2nd most valuable team in the league. Ahead of the Toronto Maple Leafs.

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11-18-2012, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
Actually, it probably suggests they were one of the teams losing the most money during that period of time. I am sure there has never been a time when the Stars were selling out consistently with high average ticket prices. The market they are in simply cannot support average ticket prices north of $60. I don't see how Gaglardi will ever be profitable off the ice and competitive on the ice. He may be able to do one or the other but both at the same time is unlikely
Perhaps "profitable" was the wrong term to use. "Financially successful" is a better descriptor of the point I was trying to get across.

Regardless, my point stands. The Stars were among the highest spenders between 1998-2004 because they could afford to be the among highest spenders. The team was one of the NHL's most successful franchises financially and with a stable owner like Gaglardi, a turn around is entirely possible.

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11-18-2012, 07:57 PM
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Who cares what happened yesterday? Especially when the Stars were a contender every year. What's happening these days shows that the Stars are another southern bubble team that will never be part of the NHL's bedrock teams, viable year-in and year-out, win or lose. The NHL has far, far too many iffy clubs like Dallas. It's why the league is pretty much a joke these days.


Last edited by Crease: 11-18-2012 at 08:26 PM. Reason: QDP
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11-18-2012, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathToAllButMetal View Post
Who cares what happened yesterday? Especially when the Stars were a contender every year. What's happening these days shows that the Stars are another southern bubble team that will never be part of the NHL's bedrock teams, viable year-in and year-out, win or lose. The NHL has far, far too many iffy clubs like Dallas. It's why the league is pretty much a joke these days.
Every team outside of Montreal and Toronto would (likely) suffer (re:attendance) as a result of a poor, losing team. It's sports. It's reality. And if you watched any broadcasts from Dallas last year, you would hear nearly every game the announcers and commentators discussing how hockey is slowly building again (fan support) and Dallas still has one of the best grassroots hockey programs in the Southern states.

But, please, continue on with the hyperbole.

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11-18-2012, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathToAllButMetal View Post
Who cares what happened yesterday? Especially when the Stars were a contender every year. What's happening these days shows that the Stars are another southern bubble team that will never be part of the NHL's bedrock teams, viable year-in and year-out, win or lose. The NHL has far, far too many iffy clubs like Dallas. It's why the league is pretty much a joke these days.
So you would rather look at the past 4 years when the team didn't make the playoffs and had a terrible ownership situation which meant they couldn't spend ANY money (and the fans knew this) rather than the bulk of their time here in Dallas? Dallas isn't a "iffy" franchise just because that false notion supports your anti-southern team views.

These are the Stars attendance the past 11 seasons.

00-01: 17,001
01-02: 18,532
02-03: 18,532
03-04: 18,355
05-06: 17,828
06-07: 17,914
07-08: 18,038
08-09: 17,680
09-10: 17,215
10-11: 15,073
11-12: 14,226

The last two years are the only real poor years. Are bad teams not allowed to have bad attendance? Are teams with unstable and unsupportive ownership not allowed to have bad attendance? Under what circumstances are teams ever allowed to have bad attendance? If you want a league where every team supports a **** product like Toronto and Montreal you will have a two team league.

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11-18-2012, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Kari View Post
So you would rather look at the past 4 years when the team didn't make the playoffs and had a terrible ownership situation which meant they couldn't spend ANY money (and the fans knew this) rather than the bulk of their time here in Dallas? Dallas isn't a "iffy" franchise just because that false notion supports your anti-southern team views.

These are the Stars attendance the past 11 seasons.

00-01: 17,001
01-02: 18,532
02-03: 18,532
03-04: 18,355
05-06: 17,828
06-07: 17,914
07-08: 18,038
08-09: 17,680
09-10: 17,215
10-11: 15,073
11-12: 14,226

The last two years are the only real poor years. Are bad teams not allowed to have bad attendance? Are teams with unstable and unsupportive ownership not allowed to have bad attendance? Under what circumstances are teams ever allowed to have bad attendance? If you want a league where every team supports a **** product like Toronto and Montreal you will have a two team league.
they obviously don't remember when the oilers almost left town and had less than 9,000 season ticket holders in the 1990's or why Winnipeg lost their team.

Dallas has a great team, and the city will support them. They've just been in turmoil the past couple of years.

It's politically correct to bash southern/US hockey teams. Pity them, they don't know any better.

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11-18-2012, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathToAllButMetal View Post
Who cares what happened yesterday? Especially when the Stars were a contender every year. What's happening these days shows that the Stars are another southern bubble team that will never be part of the NHL's bedrock teams, viable year-in and year-out, win or lose. The NHL has far, far too many iffy clubs like Dallas. It's why the league is pretty much a joke these days.
Despite Dallas's attendence struggles the last 2 seasons (Shocking, the two seasons they started the year without an owner), they remain one of the NHLs most valuable teams, and financial information points to the Stars actually being one of the numerous teams who made money last year.

People only associate Dallas with the poor markets because they're in the south. Love how people ignore nearly 20 years of insane success as one of the NHLs most valuable/profitable teams but take the last two years where they didn't have an owner (So no money going into the team).

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11-18-2012, 10:33 PM
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16 years of being a high-revenue team, selling 98% of tickets, and being the #4-9 most valuable franchise all ignored because of three years of financial implications following Hicks screwing the team over when he bought Liverpool.

Love it.

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11-20-2012, 12:25 AM
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Dallas is a GREAT hockey market. Its the fastest growing one in the states. I think Houston should get a team has well.

Only thing I will say is Minny should have never lost the stars. Dallas should get another nickname and the north stars should be given back to the twin cities. NHL did indeed get lucky with Dallas/San jose expanations IMHO(a few years ago i would have added Columbus has well however only making the playoffs once in 12 years doesn't cut it).

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11-20-2012, 12:58 AM
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Dallas is a wonderful market, and their initial grassroots approach, complemented by on-ice success, really paid off. Makes me wonder if Houston would work out...

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