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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

NHL Player=Reagan Era Air Traffic Controller

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Old
02-11-2005, 10:44 AM
  #1
txpd
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NHL Player=Reagan Era Air Traffic Controller

Who else is starting to wonder about that? If the owners are just not willing to play NHL Hockey without a salary cap and Goodenow is firm on no cap ever and has the support of the players, who's to say that this will never get worked out and impasse or not the game is cooked. Players can retire on their millions or go to europe. Ovechkin can become a russian superstar and Crosby can sign in Sweden.

Who's to say that the NHL comes back as some form of minor league sport and is never again the top league in the world? I think the odds of that happening get better all the time.

where am I wrong?

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02-11-2005, 10:50 AM
  #2
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You can thank Gary Bettman's Cap Gang of 8 for the destruction and elimination of the NHL from the American sports landscape.The NHL should move the majority of the franchises to Canada because they are finished in the U.S.

Thank you Mr.Leonsis,Mr.Nicholls,Mr.Hotchkiss,Jacobs,Wirtz,M r.Cohen,Mr.Leopold and Peter Karmanos who is the biggest ***** in the NHL.They don't come any bigger than the malaka Karmanos

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02-11-2005, 10:53 AM
  #3
wazee
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I think you are over-estimating the amount of money that is available to hockey players outside the NHL. There is no evidence that European or even Russian leagues can support huge player salaries long-term. The amount of money the 30 NHL teams can make consistantly available to players, even under a cap, is unmatched anywhere else in the world.

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02-11-2005, 10:59 AM
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lets be fair. you forgot about mario and gretzky who are both in the cap crew. mario is for sure out of business if there is no reasonable cap agreed to. and there are others. i think its worth mentioning among the 8 you hate are big hockey markets of Boston and Chicago. Original 6 teams.

Also there is Leonsis who has a franchise that was known for being frugal and a playoff punch line, because it wouldn't "make the commitment to winning" meaning spending for the top player or two needed to get over the top, when he bought it.
He promised to fix that and the team became a spender and a bigger loser both on the scoresheet and the box office. He knows the catch 22 that more than half the franchises in the nhl are caught in.

win or lose money. you can't win without either losing a lot or spending a lot of money. if you lose a lot you might not survive to get to the winning and if you spend and don't win you might not survive either.

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02-11-2005, 11:05 AM
  #5
Digger12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wazee
I think you are over-estimating the amount of money that is available to hockey players outside the NHL. There is no evidence that European or even Russian leagues can support huge player salaries long-term. The amount of money the 30 NHL teams can make consistantly available to players, even under a cap, is unmatched anywhere else in the world.
I think that was kinda his point...he never said that players would or could make comparable money elsewhere (at least not the great majority of them).

And if what he says comes to pass (not an impossibility by any stretch), we can thank both sides for playing russian roulette with 6 bullets in the chamber. And I'm sure the players coming up with be forever grateful to the reality-bending stance of the NHLPA if it results in irreparably harming the league these kids grew up dying to join.

Name one kid playing road hockey out on the street that dreams of one day joining the NHLPA.

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02-11-2005, 11:08 AM
  #6
ti-vite
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger12
I think that was kinda his point...he never said that players would or could make comparable money elsewhere (at least not the great majority of them).

And if what he says comes to pass (not an impossibility by any stretch), we can thank both sides for playing russian roulette with 6 bullets in the chamber. And I'm sure the players coming up with be forever grateful to the reality-bending stance of the NHLPA if it results in irreparably harming the league these kids grew up dying to join.

Name one kid playing road hockey out on the street that dreams of one day joining the NHLPA.
Is Martin Brodeur, who negociates his own contracts with Lamoriello without an agent, a member of the NHLPA? Honest question.

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02-11-2005, 11:10 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ti-vite
Is Martin Brodeur, who negociates his own contracts with Lamoriello without an agent, a member of the NHLPA? Honest question.
Honest answer? I would think so.

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02-11-2005, 11:11 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ti-vite
Is Martin Brodeur, who negociates his own contracts with Lamoriello without an agent, a member of the NHLPA? Honest question.
If it's anything like baseball, the only way you're not a member is if you're a former replacement player (i.e. Bill Mueller).

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02-11-2005, 11:32 AM
  #9
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When I grow up, I wanna killer agent and I wanna force a trade when I get good enough to, and eventually get traded to Detroit if I'm really good, or hold out and sign with the Rangers if I'm not.

And I'll charge for autographs. (not that players generally do, but that's where this game is heading)

I want a Ferarri, a million dollar house with gates and a supermodel wife.

And when I retire, at age 40 after years of declining skills under my guaranteed contract sum, I'll hold a celebrity hockey camp for adults and charge $1000 for a week and I'll even show up once a week.



Next week: the owners and the Federal Grand Jury investigations.

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Old
02-11-2005, 11:35 AM
  #10
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great use for the widely traveled tag "aw geeze, not this shiat again!"

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Old
02-11-2005, 11:39 AM
  #11
HockeyCritter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy
You can thank Gary Bettman's Cap Gang of 8 for the destruction and elimination of the NHL from the American sports landscape.The NHL should move the majority of the franchises to Canada because they are finished in the U.S.

Thank you Mr.Leonsis,Mr.Nicholls,Mr.Hotchkiss,Jacobs,Wirtz,M r.Cohen,Mr.Leopold and Peter Karmanos who is the biggest ***** in the NHL.They don't come any bigger than the malaka Karmanos
I do beleive there are far more than eight owners in support of a cap . . . .where is Pittsburgh on your list? Phoenix? Tampa? Florida? . . . . in short teams not placed in Colorado, Detroit, Philladelphia, New York City, and Toronto.

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02-11-2005, 11:49 AM
  #12
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:)

What I saw when I read your post?

The Doonsbery comic strip series onRonnies handling of the airtraffic controllers strike

"You're Fired"

Classic, I would love to see the same thing(and Bush is just the guy to do it).

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Old
02-11-2005, 11:52 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCritter
I do beleive there are far more than eight owners in support of a cap . . . .where is Pittsburgh on your list? Phoenix? Tampa? Florida? . . . . in short teams not placed in Colorado, Detroit, Philladelphia, New York City, and Toronto.
The guy is delusional, you can just ignore him.


Last edited by Crazy Lunatic: 02-11-2005 at 12:00 PM.
 
Old
02-11-2005, 12:00 PM
  #14
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Originally Posted by txpd
Players can retire on their millions
Yeah, they could retire on their 3 or 4 million in the bank (you dont think the average NHL player has much more than that, do you?) and live middle class lifestyles or they could earn 10-20 million more dollars for doing something they love. Their choice I guess. And why would they bother to retire now just because there is a lockout, they could have retired at any time if they wanted to.


Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd
or go to europe.
And make anywhere from 1/2 to 1/20th of what they could make in North America? Again, their choice.


Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd
Ovechkin can become a russian superstar and Crosby can sign in Sweden.
Yup, the Russian superstar Ovechkin could make about 1/2 of what he would make in the NHL and Crosby can make about 1/20th in some crappy Sweedish bush league. Neither poor as dirt Russia or insignificant Sweeden have the means to pay these players NHL slaries.


Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd
Who's to say that the NHL comes back as some form of minor league sport and is never again the top league in the world? I think the odds of that happening get better all the time.
Maybe if the NHL is shut down for 10-20 years. The only major hockey league will be based in North America. There is no other country or region in the world with enough money and or hockey interest to have anywhere close to the success the NHL has and will again.

 
Old
02-11-2005, 12:27 PM
  #15
txpd
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you would think that the players would have noticed that and an average salary of $1.3m per year is pretty sweet. but they say, "NEVER". you figure it out. they appear to be willing to not take the NHL salary for as long as it takes. or am I misreading the PA?

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02-11-2005, 12:34 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCritter
I do beleive there are far more than eight owners in support of a cap . . . .where is Pittsburgh on your list? Phoenix? Tampa? Florida? . . . . in short teams not placed in Colorado, Detroit, Philladelphia, New York City, and Toronto.
The same sentiment behind the dreamers-up of the so-called "Gang of Eight" is behind the PA's complete misreading of the owners' resolve.

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02-11-2005, 02:08 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AM
What I saw when I read your post?

The Doonsbery comic strip series onRonnies handling of the airtraffic controllers strike

"You're Fired"

Classic, I would love to see the same thing(and Bush is just the guy to do it).
heh, funny I was thinking the same thing. I wonder if they'll eventually rename the NHL the Bettman Memorial League...

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Old
02-11-2005, 02:21 PM
  #18
HockeyCritter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greschner4
The same sentiment behind the dreamers-up of the so-called "Gang of Eight" is behind the PA's complete misreading of the owners' resolve.
You’d think the PA would realize that 30-8=22 and of that 22 perhaps 8 (at most) do not want a salary cap. That leaves14 teams unaccounted for. It doesn’t take any stretch of the imagination to think that at least 10 of those 14 teams want to operate under some type of capped system. I think Tampa would love to keep their team together to defend their title.

Oh, as an aside, Ron Greschner is my all time favorite player - I loved watching him play.

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02-11-2005, 04:46 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd
Who's to say that the NHL comes back as some form of minor league sport and is never again the top league in the world? I think the odds of that happening get better all the time.
You obviously don't remember the ATC strike. That was where a bunch of whiney guys who thought they were irreplacable got their ***** handed to them and were fired, while the industry went on just fine without them.

11,000 fired, and what they learned during the work stoppage allowed them to run with 20% less employees after it was over.

http://eightiesclub.tripod.com/id296.htm

But yes, in the sense of unions making some of the most stupid moves humanly possible, the NHLPA does remind me of PATCO.

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02-12-2005, 02:30 AM
  #20
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As a soon-to-be Air Traffic Controller, I don't compare the NHLPA to PATCO. I compare the NHLPA to the remnants of Continental Airlines in the mid 80s.

There was a time when Continental Airlines had a labor dispute with some of their employee unions. Frank Lorenzo, the CEO, was unwilling to negotiate, so he declared bankruptcy rendering all labor contracts null and void. He then restarted the airline three days later, hiring the same workers he fired for pennies on the dollar only they were unionless when they returned (it was a stipulation of emplyment IIRC).

Perhaps the NHL could agree to any NHLPA offer, declare bankruptcy when all teams are in the red, void the PA contract and the players would have no choice but to play to that contract. Wishful thinking, eh?

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02-12-2005, 09:58 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy
You can thank Gary Bettman's Cap Gang of 8 for the destruction and elimination of the NHL from the American sports landscape.The NHL should move the majority of the franchises to Canada because they are finished in the U.S.

Thank you Mr.Leonsis,Mr.Nicholls,Mr.Hotchkiss,Jacobs,Wirtz,M r.Cohen,Mr.Leopold and Peter Karmanos who is the biggest ***** in the NHL.They don't come any bigger than the malaka Karmanos

I read this as : "Hello, I am a Ranger fan and I am deathly afraid that if our team does not have an unlimited budget we may never win another game again. I also dont want to say that our ownership is largely responsible for the whacked out salary structure the league is currently in. Instead of being mature and looking at this realistically I am going to lash out and blame people trying to right the ship. I dont look at the big picture, I just care about whats good for my team"

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02-12-2005, 10:37 AM
  #22
txpd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PecaFan
You obviously don't remember the ATC strike. That was where a bunch of whiney guys who thought they were irreplacable got their ***** handed to them and were fired, while the industry went on just fine without them.

11,000 fired, and what they learned during the work stoppage allowed them to run with 20% less employees after it was over.

http://eightiesclub.tripod.com/id296.htm

But yes, in the sense of unions making some of the most stupid moves humanly possible, the NHLPA does remind me of PATCO.
shall we add the mlb umpires union to that group?

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Old
02-12-2005, 11:25 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy34
As a soon-to-be Air Traffic Controller, I don't compare the NHLPA to PATCO. I compare the NHLPA to the remnants of Continental Airlines in the mid 80s.

There was a time when Continental Airlines had a labor dispute with some of their employee unions. Frank Lorenzo, the CEO, was unwilling to negotiate, so he declared bankruptcy rendering all labor contracts null and void. He then restarted the airline three days later, hiring the same workers he fired for pennies on the dollar only they were unionless when they returned (it was a stipulation of emplyment IIRC).

Perhaps the NHL could agree to any NHLPA offer, declare bankruptcy when all teams are in the red, void the PA contract and the players would have no choice but to play to that contract. Wishful thinking, eh?
Have you finished the CTI program?

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Old
02-12-2005, 01:06 PM
  #24
thinkwild
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The NHL is free to declare bankruptcy. So what? The league doenst make much money. Its the individual teams that do.

If a team was to go bankrupt, the message I would give to fans from a Sens fan is:: look forward to it! Although it was scary and hard to see the pot of the gold at the time the Sens were in bankruptcy, it turned out to be the best possible thing that could have happened for Sens fans. It allowed a new owner to buy the team at a rational cost.

It is often said that people who buy sports franchises often are willing to pay more than they are worth because they so want it for personal reasons and are willing to overpay. This artificially inflates franchise values that the owners wantto maintain. But having them sell at theirreal value works out much better for the fans.

As the Rovell article said. http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=1981387

Quote:

Even if teams do file for bankruptcy and are sold through bankruptcy court, interested bidders would be lining up to buy, banking sources said. One attorney told ESPN.com that one of his clients already is prepared to purchase a distressed team out of bankruptcy, something he thinks has a good chance of happening.

Some experts suggest that if the NHL were to buy a team in distress, it would be in its best interest to fold it.

Aside from buying teams through bankruptcies, NHL owners could offer to buy and fold teams in flawed markets. One banker suggested the league could afford to reduce the number of teams to as few as 22 using this strategy, and that many owners, realizing their teams would never make money, would be willing to accept $50 million to $80 million for their franchise.

Said the banker: "Since it will make the NHL a more financially stable league, I'm confident that those banks that lend to the NHL will give the league the money, at least $500 million, to do this in a heartbeat."
Maybe the players could offer to go half in splitting on any franchise buyouts, in return for half of any future expansion fees.

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Old
02-13-2005, 12:57 AM
  #25
me2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkwild
Maybe the players could offer to go half in splitting on any franchise buyouts, in return for half of any future expansion fees.
Sounds good too me. I'd love to see Goodenow bring that up at the next NHLPA meeting, then give the players agents a week to explain the side effects of folding 8 teams ie most of those still with jobs get pay cuts while paying out their fellow players contracts and ex-owners franchise feeds.

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