HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

NHL has lifted gag order

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-12-2005, 12:36 AM
  #26
vanlady
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 810
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by likea
what part of "the Penguins are fine and will not fold because of the lockout" don't people understand

not directed to you misterjaggers

they just got rid of most of their dept, via the courts

the jettisoned alot of payroll and played young players on purpose

they knew if a cap is to be put into place, it would be a buyers market and they will get deals on top notch players because all those big market teams cannot sign them

expect the Pens to sign 2 more big named free agents when this is over....if a bottom is put in place

if not they might wait, allow their kids to continue developing in the shorten season, get another great pick and bring Malkin, Fleury, Welch and Orpik along with Recchi, Mario and a couple FA's next season
Who's talking about the Pen's folding???? There are more franchises with bigger debt load than the Pens. My question is, if the Pen's are losing more money in the lockout, how many other teams are, and how many are willing to admit it???

vanlady is offline  
Old
02-12-2005, 12:37 AM
  #27
likea
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 599
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanlady
This is my favorite quote

Sawyer declined to say precisely how much money the Penguins will lose if the season is canceled, but pegged it at more than the roughly $3 million they lost in 2003-04.

If the Pens are losing more money in the lockout, how many other teams are?????

they are only losing more money because they only had a 17 million dollar payroll last season

if they had a 25-35 million dollar payroll and could not compete like most teams with a 25-35 million dollar payroll then they would have lost way more...

likea is offline  
Old
02-12-2005, 12:40 AM
  #28
likea
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 599
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanlady
Who's talking about the Pen's folding???? There are more franchises with bigger debt load than the Pens. My question is, if the Pen's are losing more money in the lockout, how many other teams are, and how many are willing to admit it???

alot of people on here have stated the Pens are the team most likely to fold during the lockout, and I made that post before I saw yours


and most teams didn't lose JUST 3 million last season

don't you understand that most teams have lost 10-20-30 million in seasons

2 teams have come out and said they lose less money not playing hockey

Tampa and the Yotes

likea is offline  
Old
02-12-2005, 12:40 AM
  #29
misterjaggers
Puma
 
misterjaggers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Duke City
Country: United States
Posts: 14,273
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by likea
what part of "the Penguins are fine and will not fold because of the lockout" don't people understand

not directed to you misterjaggers

they just got rid of most of their dept, via the courts

the jettisoned alot of payroll and played young players on purpose

they knew if a cap is to be put into place, it would be a buyers market and they will get deals on top notch players because all those big market teams cannot sign them

expect the Pens to sign 2 more big named free agents when this is over....if a bottom is put in place

if not they might wait, allow their kids to continue developing in the shorten season, get another great pick and bring Malkin, Fleury, Welch and Orpik along with Recchi, Mario and a couple FA's next season
I'm hoping hockey survives in Pittsburgh. Let's hope the new venue comes through and the next CBA helps small market franchises.

misterjaggers is offline  
Old
02-12-2005, 12:41 AM
  #30
Jaded-Fan
Registered User
 
Jaded-Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 30,792
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanlady
This is my favorite quote

Sawyer declined to say precisely how much money the Penguins will lose if the season is canceled, but pegged it at more than the roughly $3 million they lost in 2003-04.

If the Pens are losing more money in the lockout, how many other teams are?????
All of them . . . this statement from him is not news, it is more of the 'well duh' variety. They had expenses and zero revenues . . . so they lost more than the $3 million that they did last year . . . how is this surprising? As a ps, it did not sound from the tone that it was all that much more than the $3 million. He also added that the Pens are well funded and very viable, especially if that new CBA comes in with a Cap.

What has also been said is that many teams would have lost much more having a season under the old CBA . . .

Jaded-Fan is offline  
Old
02-12-2005, 12:44 AM
  #31
vanlady
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 810
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by likea
they are only losing more money because they only had a 17 million dollar payroll last season

if they had a 25-35 million dollar payroll and could not compete like most teams with a 25-35 million dollar payroll then they would have lost way more...
Ahhh but the Pens have a stable of very good young players that were set to make them a more exciting product this year. Correct me if I am wrong but has not the Pens attendace started to go up? Mario has set in motion a business plan that was set to make the team more revenue as well did he not? Florida and the Pens have the most to lose to me if the season is cancelled simply because they have spent a lot of time developing stronger business and marketing plans that would have started to pay off this year. That to me is a crying shame.

vanlady is offline  
Old
02-12-2005, 12:48 AM
  #32
likea
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 599
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanlady
Ahhh but the Pens have a stable of very good young players that were set to make them a more exciting product this year. Correct me if I am wrong but has not the Pens attendace started to go up? Mario has set in motion a business plan that was set to make the team more revenue as well did he not? Florida and the Pens have the most to lose to me if the season is cancelled simply because they have spent a lot of time developing stronger business and marketing plans that would have started to pay off this year. That to me is a crying shame.

they do have a stable of good young players

attendence has gone down because we were the worst team in the NHL along with pisses off every single fan by trading every player that made over 2 million dollars

its hard as a fan to watch your favorite players leave because the landscape of the game is so tilted in one direction...it makes it hard to stay a fan of that team...esp since Pittsburgh has seen this dance for the LAST 15 YEARS with the Pittsburgh Pirates

likea is offline  
Old
02-12-2005, 12:50 AM
  #33
Jaded-Fan
Registered User
 
Jaded-Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 30,792
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanlady
Ahhh but the Pens have a stable of very good young players that were set to make them a more exciting product this year. Correct me if I am wrong but has not the Pens attendace started to go up? Mario has set in motion a business plan that was set to make the team more revenue as well did he not? Florida and the Pens have the most to lose to me if the season is cancelled simply because they have spent a lot of time developing stronger business and marketing plans that would have started to pay off this year. That to me is a crying shame.

Actually the opposite . . . the Pens over the three years prior to last year were middle of the road in attendence, something like 15th or 16th league wide. Last year they dropped to the mid-eleven thousands, near the very bottom. They did a number of salary dumps that I think got them the rep on this board of an in trouble franchise. However I truly believe that Craig Patrick was positioning them for this lockout and a hard cap environment instead of any desperation on the Pens' part. That said, I will agree with you, the Pens have a core of talent just ready to come up from the minors that has created excitement in Pittsburgh, I would not be surprised if season tickets sales in Pittsburgh take off when hockey begins again. I can almost guarentee that the Pens will at least return to where they have been since the 80's, middle of the pack in attendence. But as of this date, that remains to be seen.

Jaded-Fan is offline  
Old
02-12-2005, 12:55 AM
  #34
vanlady
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 810
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by likea
alot of people on here have stated the Pens are the team most likely to fold during the lockout, and I made that post before I saw yours


and most teams didn't lose JUST 3 million last season

don't you understand that most teams have lost 10-20-30 million in seasons

2 teams have come out and said they lose less money not playing hockey

Tampa and the Yotes
OK I have no symapathy for the Yotes or Tampa. They are right in the middle of the two largest snowbird populations in the world. A whole lot of retired Canadians with reasonably good disposible incomes and you can't sell hockey??? I mean have you seen the trailer parks surrounding Tampa that are nothing but retired Canadians?

So far I have only heard 2 teams that will lose less money, any one else that is credibly losing less money?

vanlady is offline  
Old
02-12-2005, 01:04 AM
  #35
likea
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 599
vCash: 500
well honestly I don't have any links to back this up but I can speculate

Washington
NJ
St. Louis
Rangers
Islanders
Carolina
Dallas
LA
Anaheim

likea is offline  
Old
02-12-2005, 01:09 AM
  #36
futurcorerock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Columbus, OH
Country: United States
Posts: 6,432
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to futurcorerock
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanlady
OK I have no symapathy for the Yotes or Tampa. They are right in the middle of the two largest snowbird populations in the world. A whole lot of retired Canadians with reasonably good disposible incomes and you can't sell hockey??? I mean have you seen the trailer parks surrounding Tampa that are nothing but retired Canadians?

So far I have only heard 2 teams that will lose less money, any one else that is credibly losing less money?
What?



futurcorerock is offline  
Old
02-12-2005, 01:16 AM
  #37
blah
Registered User
 
blah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,269
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by likea
expect the Pens to sign 2 more big named free agents when this is over....if a bottom is put in place
Agreed. Tony Amonte and John LeClair would be on the way as soon as the new CBA is in place.

blah is offline  
Old
02-12-2005, 01:18 AM
  #38
craig1
Registered User
 
craig1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,207
vCash: 500
In response to the Pens discussions.........

They also announced a decrease in season ticket prices, partial package prices and single game prices.......they will definately increase attendance. Again, they did this in anticipation of a favorable CBA.

As for those wondering if teams are losing money.........

Please keep in mind that (with the exception of only a few lockout guaranteed contracts) teams are not paying player salaries right now. The only losses they are incurring are from administrative costs, minimal operating costs (electricity at the office), and debt service, if any.

It was reported before the lockout that many teams would lose less by not operating than by operating..........In that case, teams are better off now than if there was a season based on the last CBA.

craig1 is offline  
Old
02-12-2005, 01:20 AM
  #39
likea
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 599
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blah
Agreed. Tony Amonte and John LeClair would be on the way as soon as the new CBA is in place.

I'll take John LeClair to play with Lemieux any day of the week...once the Flyers buy him out of course...but him and Mario would be sick, just sick

likea is offline  
Old
02-12-2005, 01:25 AM
  #40
blah
Registered User
 
blah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,269
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by likea
I'll take John LeClair to play with Lemieux any day of the week...once the Flyers buy him out of course...but him and Mario would be sick, just sick
Sure they would...if you had a time machine, LeClair is far from his prime.

Why wait for the buyout? If there's a payroll floor wouldn't they want them at what they're making currently? They Pens only have 11 mil on the books for this season right? LeClair+Amonte = 15 mil, and the Pens will still be well under any possible payroll floor.

blah is offline  
Old
02-12-2005, 01:29 AM
  #41
craig1
Registered User
 
craig1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,207
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blah
Sure they would...if you had a time machine, LeClair is far from his prime.

Why wait for the buyout? If there's a payroll floor wouldn't they want them at what they're making currently? They Pens only have 11 mil on the books for this season right? LeClair+Amonte = 15 mil, and the Pens will still be well under any possible payroll floor.
Why wait? As you said, he is far past his prime....if there is a floor and cap, there will be some teams forced to dump better players than those 2.

craig1 is offline  
Old
02-12-2005, 01:31 AM
  #42
Jaded-Fan
Registered User
 
Jaded-Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 30,792
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blah
Sure they would...if you had a time machine, LeClair is far from his prime.

Why wait for the buyout? If there's a payroll floor wouldn't they want them at what they're making currently? They Pens only have 11 mil on the books for this season right? LeClair+Amonte = 15 mil, and the Pens will still be well under any possible payroll floor.

No thank you . . . LeCalir at $9 million is a joke . . .what does that work out to, $800,000 a goal or something like that? Let Philly choke on that contract, do not look to the Pens to help you all out. We did not listen to the NHL's warnings to get under the Cap, while you all ignored those warnings, and go through three years of slashed salaries and rebuilding to position ourselves so well for the new CBA environment to help the Detroits and Philadelphias of the league get out of their stupidest contracts. Again, no thank you.

Jaded-Fan is offline  
Old
02-12-2005, 01:32 AM
  #43
likea
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 599
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blah
Sure they would...if you had a time machine, LeClair is far from his prime.

Why wait for the buyout? If there's a payroll floor wouldn't they want them at what they're making currently? They Pens only have 11 mil on the books for this season right? LeClair+Amonte = 15 mil, and the Pens will still be well under any possible payroll floor.
Leclair had 55p points in 75 games last year

28 points in 35 games the year before including 18 goals

he has had alot of injuries lately and he is not in his prime but he would still look great in front of the net tipping in Lemieux's passes

oh ya, the Pens will gladly wait until you buy him out of his 9 million a year contract

likea is offline  
Old
02-12-2005, 01:36 AM
  #44
ResidentAlien*
Unregistered User
 
ResidentAlien*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,749
vCash: 500
So what about SM's quote

Quote:
"I think they'll figure out a way to make a deal," he said. "It would be devastating not to play this season, for everybody involved. The fans and the game in general. The business, especially. A lot of people are going to get hurt.

"A lot of people are talking. A lot of the players are starting to get together. Hopefully, they can come to a solution before it's too late. ... It's a long shot, but, if you look at the future of the game and how much it's going to affect the business, I don't see the future being any brighter for everybody involved six months from now or a year from now. It's only going to get worse."
I think the "alot of people are talking" is the most interesting part...I mean hell...Charles and Camilla can figure it out.....

ResidentAlien* is offline  
Old
02-12-2005, 01:42 AM
  #45
blah
Registered User
 
blah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,269
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan
No thank you . . . LeCalir at $9 million is a joke . . .what does that work out to, $800,000 a goal or something like that? Let Philly choke on that contract, do not look to the Pens to help you all out. We did not listen to te NHL's warnings to get under the Cap and go through three years of slashed salaries and rebuilding to position ourselves so well for the new CBA environment to help the Detroits and Philadelphias of the league get out of their stupidest contracts. Again, no thank you.
Holy spaz attack.

The Flyers will be fine so don't worry. Buying out LeClair, Amonte, and Burke is really no problem, and they'll be able to get under any cap rather easily.
Quote:
Originally Posted by likea
Leclair had 55p points in 75 games last year

28 points in 35 games the year before including 18 goals

he has had alot of injuries lately and he is not in his prime but he would still look great in front of the net tipping in Lemieux's passes

oh ya, the Pens will gladly wait until you buy him out of his 9 million a year contract
I'm well aware of LeClair's play. I'm saying though, why wait for the buyout when the Pens are well under the cap? Amonte and LeClair only have 1 season after this one(if there is one) left. If there's a payroll floor Amonte and LeClair would signifigantly bridge that gap from where the Pens payroll is now. Then after next season they can go on a spending spree.

blah is offline  
Old
02-12-2005, 01:42 AM
  #46
craig1
Registered User
 
craig1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,207
vCash: 500
This is interesting....came from the other Pittsburgh paper:

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/trib.../s_302924.html

Quote:
But to date, they have not needed to tap into the $300 million NHL lockout fund, of which teams can access up to the $10 million each contributed. Sawyer also did not anticipate a need to do so in the foreseeable future.
So the Pens are on good shape now, and the forseable future, plus, they have yet to even touch the $10 million they have in the warchest........if that is true, they could last about 2 more full seasons without playing(based on projected losses from the first article)......not saying they want to, but it shows that the owners really did prepare well for this.

Think the players are willing to sacrifice that much of their careers and the pay that goes with it?

craig1 is offline  
Old
02-12-2005, 01:58 AM
  #47
kerrly
Registered User
 
kerrly's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Regina
Country: Canada
Posts: 800
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to kerrly
Quote:
Originally Posted by blah
Holy spaz attack.

The Flyers will be fine so don't worry. Buying out LeClair, Amonte, and Burke is really no problem, and they'll be able to get under any cap rather easily.

I'm well aware of LeClair's play. I'm saying though, why wait for the buyout when the Pens are well under the cap? Amonte and LeClair only have 1 season after this one(if there is one) left. If there's a payroll floor Amonte and LeClair would signifigantly bridge that gap from where the Pens payroll is now. Then after next season they can go on a spending spree.
Because that would be horrible management on the teams part. With a salary floor at $32m and a cap at $42m, thats anywhere from just under 1/2 to 1/3 of the teams payroll budget depending on their goal payroll. If you can get both of them for $9, there is room to acquire other talent to make the team better. Contracts like this will disappear under a hard cap. Although, if teams do take on rediculous contracts like theirs, they are basically stuck with them, and will pay the price by icing a less competitive team. No teams will take a contract like in a trade, so that leaves buyout as the only option, and the smaller market teams especially will have to think long and hard about that.

kerrly is offline  
Old
02-12-2005, 02:00 AM
  #48
kerrly
Registered User
 
kerrly's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Regina
Country: Canada
Posts: 800
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to kerrly
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig1
This is interesting....came from the other Pittsburgh paper:

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/trib.../s_302924.html


So the Pens are on good shape now, and the forseable future, plus, they have yet to even touch the $10 million they have in the warchest........if that is true, they could last about 2 more full seasons without playing(based on projected losses from the first article)......not saying they want to, but it shows that the owners really did prepare well for this.

Think the players are willing to sacrifice that much of their careers and the pay that goes with it?
I remember seeing somewhere within these boards (can't remember where but it was today) that someone stated that no teams have dipped into the warchest yet. This could be untrue, but if it is true, the owners are even better prepared for this then I thought.

kerrly is offline  
Old
02-12-2005, 02:02 AM
  #49
blah
Registered User
 
blah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,269
vCash: 500
They both expire after the 05-06 season. You think the Pens are going to spend all of their cap space signing players this offseason?

blah is offline  
Old
02-12-2005, 02:11 AM
  #50
kerrly
Registered User
 
kerrly's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Regina
Country: Canada
Posts: 800
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to kerrly
Quote:
Originally Posted by blah
They both expire after the 05-06 season. You think the Pens are going to spend all of their cap space signing players this offseason?
Say the Pens plan on spending the league minimum, that is their set budget for this upcoming season. Half of their money is tied up in these two players alone for this upcoming season. If they signed these guys to what they were worth under the new system, and I'll be generous and say $9m for the both, thats an extra $6m to allocate to other players that can help them compete, or help them build that team to be competitive in the future. Doesn't matter when they expire, even if it is next season. When this is implemented it will be a buyers market one time, and one time only. You miss out on this, and you have to work that much harder to play catch up. Even if this wasn't the buyers year, it would still be incompetent to pile so much money into two players that won't fill the holes in the rest of the team. Moves like this are going to put teams in the basement of the league. Under this system, team management and only that are what will set the upper teams from the bottom teams.

kerrly is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:28 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.