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NHL's trigger hit after 2 years, not immediately!

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02-13-2005, 06:22 AM
  #1
Pepper
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NHL's trigger hit after 2 years, not immediately!

The NHL's top lawyer, Bill Daly, said on a Toronto radio station last week the league was willing to negotiate the triggers and would have been willing to play two full seasons under the union proposal before determining whether it was working.

This to those people who thought the proposal was a 'trap' with triggers being hit immediately. Like I said earlier, it didn't make any sense and this proves it, NHL was willing to try to PA's proposal for two years before any triggers.

Makes perfect sense to me and it was a very good proposal by NHL, PA should have tried to negotiate those triggers (which NHL was willing to do) instead of coldly rejecting it.

NHLPA makes itself look worse and worse everyday and NLRB shouldn't have any problems determining who's the bad guy here.

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02-13-2005, 06:27 AM
  #2
Masao
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So this means we'll have another lockout in two years?

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02-13-2005, 06:31 AM
  #3
EricBowser
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here is the rumored proposal that was from Eklund's website and then taken down by request from NHLPA.

NHLPA to counter NHL's hybrid proposal

1. Players will not agree to any proposal without a league documented revenue-sharing plan.

2. Term of the hybrid will be 8 years, 2004-2005 and 2005-2006 season will be a phase-in period and the trigger points will not come into play. If after the 2006-2007 season two of the trigger points are met, the NHLPA has agreed to allow the NHL to select their option to play under the NHL or NHLPA proposal for the remainder of the CBA.

3. Two of the following trigger points must be met
A. League-wide Player Compensation exceeds 63 percent of League-wide hockey revenues

B. The average of Club Payroll for highest five Payroll Clubs in the
League is more than 40 percent higher than the average of Club Payroll for the lowest five Payroll Clubs in the League

C. Any five Clubs each have Club Player Compensation in excess of $50 million

D. League-wide average Player Compensation per Club exceeds $42 million

then NHL to counter the trigger points terms as follows,
A - pay out 58%
B - top 4 no higher than 37% of bottom 4
C - four clubs no higher than $45 million
D - team avg payroll $40 million

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02-13-2005, 06:31 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masao
So this means we'll have another lockout in two years?

no, then it would be a strike

can we get a link too???

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02-13-2005, 06:47 AM
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EricBowser
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call it blind optimism or a well-placed, well-connected hunch but I believe we will have hockey this season. Goodenow has been getting pressure from certain players throughout this process and now it appears there are two factions of the PA.

One group led by Bill Guerin and Chris Pronger do not want the PA to ever accept any form of a salary cap and then Linden listening to the majority of players and team reps to make a deal now before their earning power is zapped completely.

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02-13-2005, 06:48 AM
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Pepper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by likea
no, then it would be a strike

can we get a link too???
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...0887009.htm?1c

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02-13-2005, 06:51 AM
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I want everyone to realize that EVERY proposal to come out in the media has been 100% wrong....just remember that going into today...that also includes all of eklunds proposals posted on his site

the 2 things he has gotten correct was the meeting in Toronto on wed. and he said it could be secret and it was

even Burke and Mckenzie have been way off on proposals except for the one in which the NHL released to Burke early

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02-13-2005, 07:11 AM
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bladoww
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Quote:
One group led by Bill Guerin and Chris Pronger do not want the PA to ever accept any form of a salary cap...
Big surprise... Pronger doesn't want a cap. Bye bye 10 mil a season...

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02-13-2005, 07:14 AM
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Isles72
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If the trigger points are negotiable to an extent in which both sides can live with topped off with 2 full years of the nhlpa's system I see no reason why a deal cannot be made .

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02-13-2005, 07:20 AM
  #10
barnburner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladoww
Big surprise... Pronger doesn't want a cap. Bye bye 10 mil a season...
Two perfect examples of the rich, selfish players that are supporting Goodenow's tactics. The fate of their lowerpaid 3d and 4th line players is of little interest to them - just protect their ridiculously high contracts no matter what it does to anybody else.

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02-13-2005, 08:31 AM
  #11
cleduc
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During his Feb 9th press conference, Bettman described discussions that they had with the NHLPA on how they would "phase in" to the triggers. They were not propsoed for immediate kick in. There were some reasonable "grandfathering" type discussions about how teams would work the summer to get themselves "in line" for a clean start in the NHLPA system, etc.

The triggers represented a concept of a solution.

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02-13-2005, 09:34 AM
  #12
ScottyBowman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladoww
Big surprise... Pronger doesn't want a cap. Bye bye 10 mil a season...
It doesn't matter if their is a cap or not. Pronger will get his $8 mil year.

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02-13-2005, 09:35 AM
  #13
ArizonaGreenTea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper
The NHL's top lawyer, Bill Daly, said on a Toronto radio station last week the league was willing to negotiate the triggers and would have been willing to play two full seasons under the union proposal before determining whether it was working.

This to those people who thought the proposal was a 'trap' with triggers being hit immediately. Like I said earlier, it didn't make any sense and this proves it, NHL was willing to try to PA's proposal for two years before any triggers.

Makes perfect sense to me and it was a very good proposal by NHL, PA should have tried to negotiate those triggers (which NHL was willing to do) instead of coldly rejecting it.

NHLPA makes itself look worse and worse everyday and NLRB shouldn't have any problems determining who's the bad guy here.

Perhaps they feel that the safety net will just encourage owners to take more extreme risks, or maybe they're afraid it will encourage a few low tier owners to drop their salary so they can eliminate finances from competition.

There are several ways that this proposal would screw the PA over.

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02-13-2005, 10:09 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricBowser
call it blind optimism or a well-placed, well-connected hunch but I believe we will have hockey this season. .
I'll call it something .. but your suggestions certainly are not on the list ..

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02-13-2005, 10:10 AM
  #15
BLONG7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyBowman
It doesn't matter if their is a cap or not. Pronger will get his $8 mil year.
Either 10M or 8M or whatever, it is a total waste of money on a moron that thinks he is god's gift to hockey...

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02-13-2005, 10:15 AM
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CarlRacki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyBowman
It doesn't matter if their is a cap or not. Pronger will get his $8 mil year.
Probably not true. If there's, let's say, a $42 million cap, I find it very unlikely any team is going to put nearly 20 percent of its entire payroll into one player, especially a defenseman. That's akin to an NFL team giving one of its players a deal with a $16 million cap hit. Won't happen.

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02-13-2005, 10:16 AM
  #17
cleduc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricBowser
here is the rumored proposal that was from Eklund's website and then taken down by request from NHLPA.

NHLPA to counter NHL's hybrid proposal

1. Players will not agree to any proposal without a league documented revenue-sharing plan.

2. Term of the hybrid will be 8 years, 2004-2005 and 2005-2006 season will be a phase-in period and the trigger points will not come into play. If after the 2006-2007 season two of the trigger points are met, the NHLPA has agreed to allow the NHL to select their option to play under the NHL or NHLPA proposal for the remainder of the CBA.

3. Two of the following trigger points must be met
A. League-wide Player Compensation exceeds 63 percent of League-wide hockey revenues

B. The average of Club Payroll for highest five Payroll Clubs in the
League is more than 40 percent higher than the average of Club Payroll for the lowest five Payroll Clubs in the League

C. Any five Clubs each have Club Player Compensation in excess of $50 million

D. League-wide average Player Compensation per Club exceeds $42 million

then NHL to counter the trigger points terms as follows,
A - pay out 58%
B - top 4 no higher than 37% of bottom 4
C - four clubs no higher than $45 million
D - team avg payroll $40 million
Link:
Idle Rumors Are the Devil's Tools - a critique of Eklund

As many have been saying, you have to take that with an enormous grain of salt.

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02-13-2005, 10:18 AM
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BLONG7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlRacki
Probably not true. If there's, let's say, a $42 million cap, I find it very unlikely any team is going to put nearly 20 percent of its entire payroll into one player, especially a defenseman. That's akin to an NFL team giving one of its players a deal with a $16 million cap hit. Won't happen.
Very true, if nothing else that comes of this fiasco is that owners will have their GM's be very very frugel with their $$$...Chri$ Pronger'$ over-inflated contract days are over until he hits about 36-37 and the leafs bring him home...they can have him...

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02-13-2005, 10:21 AM
  #19
EricBowser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
I'll call it something .. but your suggestions certainly are not on the list ..

Care to divulge your deepest thoughts, Messenger?

I'd love to hear them and then afterwards, I'll have to step away from the computer due to laughing so hard.

I know facts, I know how both sides negotiate, most importantly, players know they don't have a fighting chance if this lockout goes deep into next season.

Bob Goodenow's plan all along was to wait it out until a minute before midnight and then move close to the league. He knew the NHL would backoff the immediate demand of a hard salary cap and he knew the NHL would accept some form of a luxury tax.

The problem Goodenow is having right now is the hardliners and himself are wholeheartedly against a salary cap in any form. You are more likely to see a tax with teeth than a hard cap in three years if he has his way with Bettman.

Reason for my optimism, simple. The players know if Goodenow doesn't come forward with a counter offer and begin to negotiate off either NHL offer in the last month, players know they will never have a better deal on the table because the revenues and interest in the sport will be worth next to nothing.

You can take that to the bank.

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02-13-2005, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricBowser
call it blind optimism or a well-placed, well-connected hunch but I believe we will have hockey this season. Goodenow has been getting pressure from certain players throughout this process and now it appears there are two factions of the PA.

One group led by Bill Guerin and Chris Pronger do not want the PA to ever accept any form of a salary cap and then Linden listening to the majority of players and team reps to make a deal now before their earning power is zapped completely.
Bill Guerin and Chris Pronger, both great guys to listen to *sarcasm* , both over paid under achieving whiners (more so Pronger, but still). Screw both of them, if they are that against salary caps let them resign from the NHL and go play in Europe or somewhere else for a fraction of what they'd be making even under a salary cap!

....And I am PRO-PLAYER.

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02-13-2005, 10:26 AM
  #21
BLONG7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HABSoluteDMB11
Bill Guerin and Chris Pronger, both great guys to listen to *sarcasm* , both over paid under achieving whiners (more so Pronger, but still). Screw both of them, if they are that against salary caps let them resign from the NHL and go play in Europe or somewhere else for a fraction of what they'd be making even under a salary cap!

....And I am PRO-PLAYER.
Right on...these 2 guys should not be speaking on behalf of the PA...

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02-13-2005, 10:40 AM
  #22
EricBowser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLONG7
Right on...these 2 guys should not be speaking on behalf of the PA...
Blong, that's part of the problem. NHLPA is speaking for the upper tier of the league. They believe if they have unlimited ability to make lots of money, the lower level guys will see an increase in their salaries due to have maybe one good season.

The whole premise of the NHLPA under Goodenow is to throw the majority under the bus and risk their short career in favor of the elite players or so-called elite like Guerin and Pronger.

Make no mistake about this, Goodenow is fighting the cap for the elite stars and to look good for the MLBPA.

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02-13-2005, 10:50 AM
  #23
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Just for the record about Pronger, love him or hate him, he has a Hart trophy, A Norris and countless Injuries. He is not an underachiever.

He does not deserve 8 million a season... but he is no underachiever. He is probably the best Defensman aside from Nik Lidstrom for our Era.

I say no season. I think the PA thinks there is just far too much money and time. They are grossly overestimating both.

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02-13-2005, 10:51 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleduc
Link:
Idle Rumors Are the Devil's Tools - a critique of Eklund

As many have been saying, you have to take that with an enormous grain of salt.
This article really brings out the truth behind stupid crap like that. People say "If you don't like it, DONT READ IT"....

But thats not the only problem I have with crap like that. Like the article writer said, its giving false hope to people... which is wrong.

Having said that, I still go back and look at his blog everyday... The reason, you might ask? The same as in the Howard Stern movie... I want to see what he'll say next...

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02-13-2005, 10:58 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barnburner
Two perfect examples of the rich, selfish players that are supporting Goodenow's tactics. The fate of their lowerpaid 3d and 4th line players is of little interest to them - just protect their ridiculously high contracts no matter what it does to anybody else.

Yep, at some point Pronger and Guerin have to ask themselves what they would be doing, and how much money they would be making, if the NHL (or even some less lucrative version of it) didn't exist.

Sorta reminds you of the scene from Bull Durham when the coaches are trying to talk Costner into another season in single A ball...."K-mart sucks!"

For the record, I don't think either of these guys is an "underachiever", but they seem to be a bit short sighted right now.


Last edited by JFPIV: 02-13-2005 at 11:04 AM.
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