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Isles/Coyotes

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Old
11-20-2012, 12:56 PM
  #1
blinkman360
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Isles/Coyotes

This lockout is killing me, so I decided to go big with this. I'm sure I'll get ripped, seeing as I always do, but I'm actually looking forward to it this time. BTW, If you see this PW... I know...:

to : Keith Yandle, D; 2013 2nd;

to : Brock Nelson, C; 2013 1st(assuming it's in the 5-10 range); Aaron Ness, D;


Islanders address a huge need on defense with Visnovsky likely leaving in the offseason. Yandle can step right into a top-pairing role with Hamonic, and with Reinhart eventually cracking the lineup they can finally start building around a solid top-4 on defense. They lose a top center prospect, but with Tavares and Strome solidifying the top-six spots it is something they can afford to do. They also lose a decent D prospect, but with guys like Kichton, Pedan and possibly Mayfield and/or Pokka making the jump to the AHL, as well as Donovan already there and deHann recovering from his injury, they should still be well stocked with depth at and outside the AHL level.

For Phoenix, they lose a stud defenseman, but with guys like Gormley, Rundblad and Murphy either NHL ready or close to it(at the start of 2013, at least), as well as the likes of OEL, Klesla, Michalek and others already at the NHL level, they are dealing from a position of strength. In return they get Brock Nelson, who is one of the most underrated center prospects on these boards. IMO he's passed guys like Bjugstad, Coyle and Morrow(guys who get a ton of hype around here) and is easily a top-25/30 NHL prospect right now. Add to that the draft pick, which will allow them to add one of the top centers in Monohan, Lindholm, Drouin or Lazar, or a winger like Shinkaruk. Either way, they add two elite forward prospects to a system that's severely lacking in that area. While Ness isn't exactly a top prospect, he's a young guy with upside who is NHL ready. At the very least, he'll provide some depth at the AHL level.


On paper, I feel like this could work. If not, make a tweak or two and post what you think. If they are completely off-base, just scrap the idea all together. Like I said, I'm bored...

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11-20-2012, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
This lockout is killing me, so I decided to go big with this. I'm sure I'll get ripped, seeing as I always do, but I'm actually looking forward to it this time. BTW, If you see this PW... I know...:

to : Keith Yandle, D; 2013 2nd;

to : Brock Nelson, C; 2013 1st(assuming it's in the 5-10 range); Aaron Ness, D;


Islanders address a huge need on defense with Visnovsky likely leaving in the offseason. Yandle can step right into a top-pairing role with Hamonic, and with Reinhart eventually cracking the lineup they can finally start building around a solid top-4 on defense. They lose a top center prospect, but with Tavares and Strome solidifying the top-six spots it is something they can afford to do. They also lose a decent D prospect, but with guys like Kichton, Pedan and possibly Mayfield and/or Pokka making the jump to the AHL, as well as Donovan already there and deHann recovering from his injury, they should still be well stocked with depth at and outside the AHL level.

For Phoenix, they lose a stud defenseman, but with guys like Gormley, Rundblad and Murphy either NHL ready or close to it(at the start of 2013, at least), as well as the likes of OEL, Klesla, Michalek and others already at the NHL level, they are dealing from a position of strength. In return they get Brock Nelson, who is one of the most underrated center prospects on these boards. IMO he's passed guys like Bjugstad, Coyle and Morrow(guys who get a ton of hype around here) and is easily a top-25/30 NHL prospect right now. Add to that the draft pick, which will allow them to add one of the top centers in Monohan, Lindholm, Drouin or Lazar, or a winger like Shinkaruk. Either way, they add two elite forward prospects to a system that's severely lacking in that area. While Ness isn't exactly a top prospect, he's a young guy with upside who is NHL ready. At the very least, he'll provide some depth at the AHL level.


On paper, I feel like this could work. If not, make a tweak or two and post what you think. If they are completely off-base, just scrap the idea all together. Like I said, I'm bored...
Well, at least you are thinking impact trade for Snow.

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Old
11-20-2012, 01:10 PM
  #3
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As a Coyotes fan, I'd possibly consider it if the team really was shopping Yandle and GMDM felt this was the best offer out there. I'd think many teams would offer a proven NHL player along with a pick and getting the proven commodity might be more important to the Coyotes rather than just banking on a high pick and a good prospect. I really do like Nelson as a player and wanted the Coyotes to draft him.

Not sure there'd be a need for Ness though. Guess he could be a throw in. How highly regarded is he by the NYI?

That said, until Gormley steps into the line-up and proves himself, they likely do not trade Yandle.


Last edited by untouchable21: 11-20-2012 at 01:17 PM.
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11-20-2012, 01:22 PM
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Brock Nelson and a top ten pick is a nice offer (I'd rather replace Ness with a comparable non-D asset).

That said, none of Gormley, Rundblad or Murphy are exactly taking the world by storm so far this season. They are all making adjustments and none are doing so seamlessly. This, to me, has further highlighted why it's important not to count unhatched chickens.

The Coyotes are not looking to take a step backwards. They made the Conference Finals last playoffs and they are going to look to continue making positive progress. Yandle rebounding offensively is a huge part of what we are depending on to help replace Ray Whitney's production via committee. Praying Sullivan has one more good year left in him, that Boedker takes the next step, and that Yandle has a big rebound is really all we have to rely on in terms of hoping we don't miss Whitney more than we can handle.

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11-20-2012, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by untouchable21 View Post
As a Coyotes fan, I'd possibly consider it if the team really was shopping Yandle and GMDM felt this was the best offer out there. I'd think many teams would offer a proven NHL player along with a pick and getting the proven commodity might be more important to the Coyotes rather than just banking on a high pick and a good prospect. I really do like Nelson as a player and wanted the Coyotes to draft him.

Not sure there'd be a need for Ness though. Guess he could be a throw in. How highly regarded is he by the NYI?

That said, until Gormley steps into the line-up and proves himself, they likely do not trade Yandle.
Isles could also probably trade Okposo or Grabner. Ness doesn't have a high ceiling but he should be a serviceable defenseman. Not sure how Isles fans would feel about trading Nino but he's got more value now that he's producing in the AHL.

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11-20-2012, 01:26 PM
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Would the Islanders still be a bottom 5-10 team if they had Yandle?

Is this supposed to be a draft day trade because it only makes sense if the Coyotes were sure of getting a lotto pick...

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11-20-2012, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by seabass45 View Post
Isles could also probably trade Okposo or Grabner. Ness doesn't have a high ceiling but he should be a serviceable defenseman. Not sure how Isles fans would feel about trading Nino but he's got more value now that he's producing in the AHL.
If the isles are packaging a top 10 pick+ Brock Nelson, I doubt they add either KO or Grabner.

There is a big difference between the value of young, core nhlers KO/Grabner and 22 yr old Ness, in his 2nd AHL season.

Heck, I think there is a big difference in the value between Nino and Ness. 20 yr old Nino is a top prospect, while Ness is a solid, but small prospect.

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11-20-2012, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
Would the Islanders still be a bottom 5-10 team if they had Yandle?

Is this supposed to be a draft day trade because it only makes sense if the Coyotes were sure of getting a lotto pick...
As far as I'm concerned, we just need a top defenseman and then we can let the youth grow into the other roles. Oh, and an NHL coach would be nice.

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11-20-2012, 01:47 PM
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If the isles are packaging a top 10 pick+ Brock Nelson, I doubt they add either KO or Grabner.

There is a big difference between the value of young, core nhlers KO/Grabner and 22 yr old Ness, in his 2nd AHL season.

Heck, I think there is a big difference in the value between Nino and Ness. 20 yr old Nino is a top prospect, while Ness is a solid, but small prospect.
I'd go with KO/Grabner instead of Nelson, if that's what PHX wanted. High 1st (if that's what happens) + top prospect or top 6 young forward + mid-level prospect.

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11-20-2012, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
Brock Nelson and a top ten pick is a nice offer (I'd rather replace Ness with a comparable non-D asset).

That said, none of Gormley, Rundblad or Murphy are exactly taking the world by storm so far this season. They are all making adjustments and none are doing so seamlessly. This, to me, has further highlighted why it's important not to count unhatched chickens.

The Coyotes are not looking to take a step backwards. They made the Conference Finals last playoffs and they are going to look to continue making positive progress. Yandle rebounding offensively is a huge part of what we are depending on to help replace Ray Whitney's production via committee. Praying Sullivan has one more good year left in him, that Boedker takes the next step, and that Yandle has a big rebound is really all we have to rely on in terms of hoping we don't miss Whitney more than we can handle.
That's understandable, although I'd consider Gormley a pretty safe bet to become a very solid 2nd pairing guy at the least. How long it takes him to get to that level is really the only question in my mind. If it came down to it, I'd probably be comfortable swapping Donovan in for Ness, who IMO is a much better prospect(ceiling-wise and probability of hitting it-wise). I am a big fan of Donovan, but considering we'd have Hamonic, MacDonald, Streit and Yandle if this went down, that only leaves two spots for guys like deHaan, Mayfield, Pedan, Kichton, Pokka, Pelech, among others to take in the next couple of years. Not to mention Reinhart who is all but a lock to be a member of this defense in some capacity, whether it's a #1 or #6, I'd be shocked if he doesn't at least become a serviceable NHL defender(much like I'd be shocked if Gormley doesn't).

Obviously you, being a Phoenix fan, know more about the state of their team than I do, but to me they seem like a team in great shape defensively, even if Yandle is traded and one or two of the big prospects flop. Even if that happens, you still have a top-4 that includes OEL, Klesla, Michalek and Gormley(again, I don't see him not becoming a top-4). IMO, guys like Schlemko and Stone look like they could be solid bottom-pairing guys if Rundblad and Murphy don't pan out, which leaves you with a solid blue-line in a worst case scenario. Assuming those two guys do pan out, you have one of the top defensive units in the league and Yandle isn't even a part of it. Except now, you have two extremely talented forward prospects(Nelson and the draft pick) to build your offense around on top of it. One of which is NHL ready, and the other who is good enough to most likely not need much time for development.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
Would the Islanders still be a bottom 5-10 team if they had Yandle?

Is this supposed to be a draft day trade because it only makes sense if the Coyotes were sure of getting a lotto pick...
This is an offseason proposal. Either with a full lockout or a partial season, I still expect the Isles to have a similar draft pick. But yes, the pick would be a sure thing.

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11-20-2012, 03:10 PM
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As an Isles fan I don't do this trade. With the Visnovsky trade we aren't looking for another puck moving defenseman. Nelson is probably our third top prospect and with the likelihood of no season giving us another chance at a high pick this just isn't right for us at this time.

If this was offered pre-draft last year it might have had a better chance of happening. But it would have likely been Yandle for the 4th overall only. You then could have your pick of Forsberg, Grigs, etc. Maybe we would have thrown Ness in too.

But with the current Isles roster and the way our kids are playing in their first full AHL seasons we wouldn't do this today.

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11-20-2012, 03:36 PM
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There is no way I would trade Brock Nelson.

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11-20-2012, 03:40 PM
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I thought the phoemnx team asked for Eberle + for Yandle at the draft...So I think their asking price is higher

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11-20-2012, 03:48 PM
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How about Klesla for Bailey? I think that's a little more realistic.

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11-20-2012, 03:53 PM
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How about Klesla for Bailey? I think that's a little more realistic.
I would strongly, strongly consider that.

EDIT: Screw it, yes yes yes. Klesla would be great with us and I'm not a Bailey fan.

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11-20-2012, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by SLAPSHOT723 View Post
I would strongly, strongly consider that.

EDIT: Screw it, yes yes yes. Klesla would be great with us and I'm not a Bailey fan.
Any word on what the reason for Bailey holding out until the 11th hour the last RFA session was? That would be just our luck to acquire a young forward with entitlement issues.

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11-20-2012, 04:09 PM
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Not interested unless John Tavares is part of the deal coming the other way. Coyotes need help on offense right away so the deal would have to be a give something to get something for both teams here.

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11-20-2012, 04:20 PM
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Not interested unless John Tavares is part of the deal coming the other way. Coyotes need help on offense right away so the deal would have to be a give something to get something for both teams here.
God no..please no.

That would cost, like, I don't even want to start there.

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11-20-2012, 04:22 PM
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Not interested unless John Tavares is part of the deal coming the other way. Coyotes need help on offense right away so the deal would have to be a give something to get something for both teams here.

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11-20-2012, 04:24 PM
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Any word on what the reason for Bailey holding out until the 11th hour the last RFA session was? That would be just our luck to acquire a young forward with entitlement issues.
Blame Charles Wang, it feels like it happens once a year now. Matt Martin was this year's holdout and I'm not sure what the issue was. Bailey may have wanted more money or years (Grabner and Okposo had signed five year deals) but he didn't have any leverage. Now it looks like he'll be on the wing and that's where he should stay.

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11-20-2012, 04:47 PM
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Phoenix needs to resolve the problem at center. Brock Nelson may be a good fit, but so might Strome. Bailey seemed more comortable at left wing last year.

The Isles need D and Phoenix needs help at center.

It looks like a decent fit between teams with choices to pick from on both sides to make a deal.

I am still keen to see what Colorado does to resolve their D problems and depth at Center. Stastny or Duchene sould be available and both are far better players than they showed last year. Toronto, St Louis and Phoenix are all in the market for top line centers.....big time. Phoenix may be the only team willing to go after a top youngster rather than the finished product.

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11-20-2012, 05:01 PM
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Phoenix needs to resolve the problem at center. Brock Nelson may be a good fit, but so might Strome. Bailey seemed more comortable at left wing last year.
Phoenix needs to replace Langkow's 30 points and 15:45 of ice time at center. Whether they do that with another short term, veteran fix or with a younger developmental project is yet to be decided. I imagine they'll see what the market bears after the new CBA and see what's attractive, but it won't be hard to replace. They don't have to go for broke yet.

Maloney has said that he won't trade Yandle unless it's an offer so good that when Yandle and his agent see it, they'll understand why he was traded.

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11-20-2012, 05:19 PM
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As an Isles fan I don't do this trade. With the Visnovsky trade we aren't looking for another puck moving defenseman. Nelson is probably our third top prospect and with the likelihood of no season giving us another chance at a high pick this just isn't right for us at this time.

If this was offered pre-draft last year it might have had a better chance of happening. But it would have likely been Yandle for the 4th overall only. You then could have your pick of Forsberg, Grigs, etc. Maybe we would have thrown Ness in too.

But with the current Isles roster and the way our kids are playing in their first full AHL seasons we wouldn't do this today.
I would agree with this if Visnovsky was under Islander control for a couple more years. Unfortunately, he's a UFA after this season. IMO, there is a very good chance that he never plays a single game as an Islander. He's getting to the latter portion of his career, so even if the Isles extend him an offer during the offseason, I just don't see him choosing to sign here over a contender.

BTW, this package is 10x better than the proposal you suggested. Nelson right now has the value of a top-10/15 pick, and most people will tell you that a top-5 pick in 2013 is more valuable than a 2012 top-5 pick. Add to that, their top D-prospects are one year closer to being NHL ready, making it slightly easier to part with Yandle. I just don't see how this would have made more sense last offseason than it would next offseason.

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There is no way I would trade Brock Nelson.
I really, really like Nelson and think he has huge upside, but TBH I like Strome more. That said, rather than switch one of them to the wing, I'd rather take full advantage of the trade value there and address a huge need. Add to that, we essentially have four top-6 wingers already anyway in Moulson, Bailey, Okposo and soon to be Nino. Nelson's future here, as of right now, is ultimately on the 3rd line. I'd rather use him to bring a top-pairing defenseman in than have him replace Frans Nielsen, who's already proven to be a quality 3rd liner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ginner classic View Post
Phoenix needs to resolve the problem at center. Brock Nelson may be a good fit, but so might Strome. Bailey seemed more comortable at left wing last year.

The Isles need D and Phoenix needs help at center.

It looks like a decent fit between teams with choices to pick from on both sides to make a deal.

I am still keen to see what Colorado does to resolve their D problems and depth at Center. Stastny or Duchene sould be available and both are far better players than they showed last year. Toronto, St Louis and Phoenix are all in the market for top line centers.....big time. Phoenix may be the only team willing to go after a top youngster rather than the finished product.
Statsny I could see happening. Duchene... I just can't see the Avs parting with yet. Way too early for them to give up on him, even if they were getting a guy like Yandle back. His upside is just way too big. Not to mention if they somehow decided to part with him, I highly doubt they'd trade him within the conference.

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11-20-2012, 05:20 PM
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Any word on what the reason for Bailey holding out until the 11th hour the last RFA session was? That would be just our luck to acquire a young forward with entitlement issues.
No entitlement issues.

From reading Bailey's disappointed comments, it sounds Bailey wanted a lonterm deal like Okposo/Grabner had signed( 5 yrs).

Isles instead, gave Bailey a 2 yr show me contract. At $1m per, it's team freindly.

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11-20-2012, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by AP View Post
Not interested unless John Tavares is part of the deal coming the other way. Coyotes need help on offense right away so the deal would have to be a give something to get something for both teams here.
Yoyes will be keeping Yandle, if that is the price tag.

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