HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Notices

CBA Negotiations III: Why Can't We All Just...Get Along?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-06-2012, 08:21 PM
  #376
PHILOUDELPHIA
Registered User
 
PHILOUDELPHIA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: PHILADELPHIA
Posts: 600
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Just to recap, Bettman made concessions...and announced to the world those concessions are no longer on the table.


And the PA is just supposed to keep coming towards them, knowing that.
true, but the fact the NHL came up to 300 in make hole dollars was very suprising 2 weeks ago NHL PA wanted it at 382 but I think they knew they weren't going to get that high, but NHL finally bit and bumped it from 200 to 300 which is very good for the players.


now they know 300 is in play, and I it will be back in play next week.

Players want a 10 year deal opt after 8

league wants 5 with 2 options up to 7

so that seems to be the big thing.

PHILOUDELPHIA is offline  
Old
12-06-2012, 08:23 PM
  #377
Prongo
Beer
 
Prongo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 13,877
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Except that happened yesterday and tuesday and then Fehr tried to get back in.. When that happened, everything blew up
I don't believe it was fair game that the owners said if Don Fehr comes back in it's a "deal breaker". These aren't even negotiations anymore. It's a circus, from both sides.

I said it, if they worked out the pension issue and transition issues, they should accept the deal. 300 "make whole" was right in the middle between the two sides. I believe it was the deal to accept.

Maybe instead of max 7 for your own free agents, make that the max for all free agents.

Prongo is offline  
Old
12-06-2012, 08:24 PM
  #378
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 109,888
vCash: 5792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
And that is when Fehr came in and killed it

If the NHL's offer went before union for a vote next week ,, It would pass easily

NHLPA hardliners and stars (Only guys who benefit from super longterm deals) wont allow that to happen
Apart from Crosby, the four main guys after him this week were Kevin Westgarth, Manny Malholtra, Ron Hainsey, and Chris Campoli. You could make the case that in two years, three of those guys will be out of the league, for reasons having nothing to do with money.


The offer didn't go for a vote because the players didn't want to vote on it.


These things don't really end in offers or proposals anyways

GKJ is offline  
Old
12-06-2012, 08:38 PM
  #379
Prongo
Beer
 
Prongo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 13,877
vCash: 500
http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/20628

Quote:
One NHL governor told ESPN.com that they were shown both offers from the league and NHLPA in the board of governors meeting.

"I looked at them both and wondered how this thing isn’t done already," he said.

And those were previous offers. Not the ones from the last 24 hours that showed more movement from both sides.

What we need now is for both sides to exhale and get back at the table no later than Monday.

For the millionth time, there is a deal here. Stop the politics and get it done
They really just need everyone to settle down and make a deal. It's so close to ruin an NHL season and even maybe the NHL as a whole.

https://twitter.com/adater/status/276878074744811520

Quote:
From deep inside players side: "We were ready to play again. But Don came in (Wed.) and told us we could get more and to hold out"
COME ON NOW!

Prongo is offline  
Old
12-06-2012, 08:42 PM
  #380
Krishna
Registered User
 
Krishna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Canada
Posts: 82,048
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/20628


They really just need everyone to settle down and make a deal. It's so close to ruin an NHL season and even maybe the NHL as a whole.

https://twitter.com/adater/status/276878074744811520



COME ON NOW!
Fehr's negotiating tactic has always been let's hold out and wait for more

Krishna is offline  
Old
12-06-2012, 08:42 PM
  #381
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 109,888
vCash: 5792
Quote:
Originally Posted by PHILOUDELPHIA View Post
true, but the fact the NHL came up to 300 in make hole dollars was very suprising 2 weeks ago NHL PA wanted it at 382 but I think they knew they weren't going to get that high, but NHL finally bit and bumped it from 200 to 300 which is very good for the players.


now they know 300 is in play, and I it will be back in play next week.

Players want a 10 year deal opt after 8

league wants 5 with 2 options up to 7

so that seems to be the big thing.
I agree. The numbers and issues being put out there by both sides are not apocalyptic.

GKJ is offline  
Old
12-06-2012, 08:43 PM
  #382
Prongo
Beer
 
Prongo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 13,877
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Fehr's negotiating tactic has always been let's hold out and wait for more
The players have to realize that was a good deal and tell Fehr they wanted to take it.

If they settled pensions and transitions, it should have been resolved fast.

Prongo is offline  
Old
12-06-2012, 08:51 PM
  #383
Hollywood Couturier
Moderator
 
Hollywood Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 19,878
vCash: 500
i'm getting my popcorn ready.

__________________

"I Came Here To Bury Caesar, Not Praise Him" - Roy Halladay
Hollywood Couturier is offline  
Old
12-06-2012, 08:57 PM
  #384
PHILOUDELPHIA
Registered User
 
PHILOUDELPHIA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: PHILADELPHIA
Posts: 600
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
The players have to realize that was a good deal and tell Fehr they wanted to take it.

If they settled pensions and transitions, it should have been resolved fast.
here is what I overall got out of today, basically NHL PA got a lot from the league today. and so fehr wanted to see hwo much more he could go. That's when the train fell off the tracks, when he got greedy and said FU to the leagues offer. that's when the league and there cheesy response said FU all the stuff we agreed to is off and get the F out of here.

that's why the owners walked out, etc fehr wanted to see how far he could push the buttons. its all a smoke tatic screen.

so moving forward, all the concessions the NHL made will be back in play. We were very close to a player vote today that tells me they wanted this thing to finally end.

so next week, they are all back and what I see happening, im not saying the lockout will end. but what I will almost gurantee you is we will finally have a player vote on a CBA which if a majority agrees to ends the lockout.

PHILOUDELPHIA is offline  
Old
12-06-2012, 09:08 PM
  #385
Prongo
Beer
 
Prongo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 13,877
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PHILOUDELPHIA View Post
here is what I overall got out of today, basically NHL PA got a lot from the league today. and so fehr wanted to see hwo much more he could go. That's when the train fell off the tracks, when he got greedy and said FU to the leagues offer. that's when the league and there cheesy response said FU all the stuff we agreed to is off and get the F out of here.

that's why the owners walked out, etc fehr wanted to see how far he could push the buttons. its all a smoke tatic screen.

so moving forward, all the concessions the NHL made will be back in play. We were very close to a player vote today that tells me they wanted this thing to finally end.

so next week, they are all back and what I see happening, im not saying the lockout will end. but what I will almost gurantee you is we will finally have a player vote on a CBA which if a majority agrees to ends the lockout.
I completely agree with what you are saying.

Let's just forget these smoke screen tactics and settle the damn thing. Enough is enough. All they are doing is really hurting the fans. Its frustrating from our view here, and guess what, that's all that really matters.

Prongo is offline  
Old
12-06-2012, 09:19 PM
  #386
Hockeypete49
How you like me now!
 
Hockeypete49's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: South Jersey
Country: Isle of Man
Posts: 4,496
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Fehr's negotiating tactic has always been let's hold out and wait for more
Yep and it is going to cost the players! Either they give in or else the plug will be pulled. Shame. We the fans get bent over again.

Hockeypete49 is offline  
Old
12-06-2012, 09:25 PM
  #387
Krishna
Registered User
 
Krishna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Canada
Posts: 82,048
vCash: 50
http://watch.tsn.ca/clip820675#clip822014

Bettman press conference for anyone who missed it

Krishna is offline  
Old
12-06-2012, 10:19 PM
  #388
Flyerfan4life
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Richmond BC, Canada
Country: England
Posts: 12,041
vCash: 500
hmm, well thats pretty much it then isnt it...

epic facepalm of massive power...

GRRRR !!!!

Flyerfan4life is offline  
Old
12-06-2012, 11:08 PM
  #389
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Wing or Retire!
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alexandria
Country: Liberia
Posts: 37,253
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Fehr's negotiating tactic has always been let's hold out and wait for more
And Bettman's has been "Hey, let's have a lockout."

These are not compatible tactics. I'd like to see Bettman and Daly, Fehr and Fehr cleared out of their positions when this debacle ends. The league and union need to start anew.

Bettman has been excellent at expanding TV coverage, maybe they can shift him over to "TV Master" or something. Just, don't let him interact with players in negotiations anymore.

__________________
Down in the basement, I've got a Craftsman lathe. Show it to the children when they misbehave.
Beef Invictus is offline  
Old
12-06-2012, 11:11 PM
  #390
sobrien
RAFFLCOPTER
 
sobrien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Jersey/Memphis
Country: United States
Posts: 6,571
vCash: 500
The Fehr's are pissing me off. They may be doing the fair thing for the PA, but the Owners despise them, and I think they'll cause this to spiral further out of control.


Why couldn't we keep it as players and owners discussing the issues at hand? Things happened. Good things. Stick Bettman, Daly, and the Fehr's in a diner somewhere and call them when it's time to sign papers.

sobrien is offline  
Old
12-06-2012, 11:19 PM
  #391
RussianRocket10
Registered User
 
RussianRocket10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Country: Brazil
Posts: 3,748
vCash: 500
Well there goes my optimism out the window.


RussianRocket10 is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 12:00 AM
  #392
GoneFullHextall
adios Holmgren
 
GoneFullHextall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somewhere in NH
Country: United States
Posts: 30,925
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
And that is when Fehr came in and killed it

If the NHL's offer went before union for a vote next week ,, It would pass easily

NHLPA hardliners and stars (Only guys who benefit from super longterm deals) wont allow that to happen
if you want to kick the hardline stars out of the room then we do the same for the hardline owners you support. Starting with Jacobs. tell him to go home and stay there.
There is little doubt that Fehr is a jackass. I dont like him or his tactics, but Bettman doing what he did today doesnt help matters either.
personally, I say tell the Don and Bettman to GTFO. Keep Daly, and the players in the room. Things were going pretty well until they had to bring Bettman and Don Fehr back in the room. everything went to **** when they got involved.
I get Bettman being pissed. But pulling everything off the table was not a good idea.

GoneFullHextall is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 12:13 AM
  #393
Krishna
Registered User
 
Krishna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Canada
Posts: 82,048
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
if you want to kick the hardline stars out of the room then we do the same for the hardline owners you support. Starting with Jacobs. tell him to go home and stay there.
There is little doubt that Fehr is a jackass. I dont like him or his tactics, but Bettman doing what he did today doesnt help matters either.
personally, I say tell the Don and Bettman to GTFO. Keep Daly, and the players in the room. [b]Things were going pretty well until they had to bring Bettman and Don Fehr back in the room. everything went to **** when they got involved.[/b[
I get Bettman being pissed. But pulling everything off the table was not a good idea.
Bettman wasn't involved today. The meetings were going well until Fehr decided to step in.

Krishna is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 12:28 AM
  #394
GoneFullHextall
adios Holmgren
 
GoneFullHextall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somewhere in NH
Country: United States
Posts: 30,925
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Bettman wasn't involved today. The meetings were going well until Fehr decided to step in.
well I was at work today so I missed some things. I read it as Fehr and Bettman were joining the negotiations earlier today before I left for work.
I still say Bettman can be ticked off, but pulling the entire deal off the table isnt a good idea.
I wonder what was said between Daly and Fehr before Fehr joined the fray today.

And people wonder why I was pessimistic about everything.

GoneFullHextall is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 12:34 AM
  #395
Krishna
Registered User
 
Krishna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Canada
Posts: 82,048
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
well I was at work today so I missed some things. I read it as Fehr and Bettman were joining the negotiations earlier today before I left for work.
I still say Bettman can be ticked off, but pulling the entire deal off the table isnt a good idea.
I wonder what was said between Daly and Fehr before Fehr joined the fray today.

And people wonder why I was pessimistic about everything.
Events of the day :

Some meetings between players and steve fehr and Bill Daly and a few owners.

They split up for a bit after the players asked to get fehr back in the meetings.

When they got back, it was Daly and Bob Batterman, the fehrs, and a few players. There, the players asked for mediation and I believe presented an offer. Talks broke up here for the owners side to look over the deal.

Before the owners had a chance to look it over, Fehr went and spoke to the media.

From there, I think you may have the rest if you followed on twitter

edit : Bettman only showed up to speak after Fehr's speech

Krishna is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 06:31 AM
  #396
Flyerfan808
Registered User
 
Flyerfan808's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Honolulu, HI
Country: United States
Posts: 2,002
vCash: 500
In regards to 5 year contract limit I think it is actually a genius move by the owners, for many reasons:

1) Levels the playing field between big market clubs and small market clubs.

2a) Limits Liability. Due to serious/career ending injury.

2b) Limits Liability. Due to degrading player performance.

3) This one is sort of my own theory/speculation so feel free to disagree... I think that the five year max will actually lower player salaries by:

a) Physically limiting the amount of money teams have available to spend on salaries (~60M dollars after the 50/50 split) and;
b) Eliminating the front loaded "retirement contracts" loophole.

By limiting contract length the owners will effectively be bursting the bubble on artificially inflated player salaries that were based on 54-57% of HRR and bringing them back down to Earth.

This will force teams to be MUCH more careful about how they spend their money and probably cause a drop in player salaries for the first few years... stabilize by year 3... and continue to scale appropriately to the 50/50 split over the remaining years.

Flyerfan808 is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 06:59 AM
  #397
Snotbubbles
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,486
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyerfan808 View Post
In regards to 5 year contract limit I think it is actually a genius move by the owners, for many reasons:

1) Levels the playing field between big market clubs and small market clubs.

2a) Limits Liability. Due to serious/career ending injury.

2b) Limits Liability. Due to degrading player performance.

3) This one is sort of my own theory/speculation so feel free to disagree... I think that the five year max will actually lower player salaries by:

a) Physically limiting the amount of money teams have available to spend on salaries (~60M dollars after the 50/50 split) and;
b) Eliminating the front loaded "retirement contracts" loophole.

By limiting contract length the owners will effectively be bursting the bubble on artificially inflated player salaries that were based on 54-57% of HRR and bringing them back down to Earth.

This will force teams to be MUCH more careful about how they spend their money and probably cause a drop in player salaries for the first few years... stabilize by year 3... and continue to scale appropriately to the 50/50 split over the remaining years.
It's gonna create a have's and have not's among the NHLPA. You'll have your high end players and low end players. The middle class of players will begin to disappear. This weaken the NHLPA.

Snotbubbles is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 07:16 AM
  #398
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 109,888
vCash: 5792
Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
The Fehr's are pissing me off. They may be doing the fair thing for the PA, but the Owners despise them, and I think they'll cause this to spiral further out of control.


Why couldn't we keep it as players and owners discussing the issues at hand? Things happened. Good things. Stick Bettman, Daly, and the Fehr's in a diner somewhere and call them when it's time to sign papers.
Things don't get down without the top guys being there.


Owners despite the Fehrs, but players equally despise Bettman. Ron Hainsey said that the owners said bringing back Fehr would put a kibosh on the whole thing. Players could easily say the same thing about Bettman. He's the common denominator in all these labor problems.

GKJ is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 07:45 AM
  #399
Mkoll
Inkvisiittori
 
Mkoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Country: Finland
Posts: 779
vCash: 840
So I have heard about the NHL/Owners concessions, but has the players union made any? I am sure I just missed it.

Mkoll is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 08:00 AM
  #400
Jack de la Hoya
Registered User
 
Jack de la Hoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 13,123
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mkoll View Post
So I have heard about the NHL/Owners concessions, but has the players union made any? I am sure I just missed it.
uh....dropping from 57 percent of HRR?

Most of the NHL's concessions have been from their own offers. Most of the players concessions have been from the old system.

Jack de la Hoya is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:36 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.