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CBA Negotiations III: Why Can't We All Just...Get Along?

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Old
12-07-2012, 08:14 AM
  #401
PHILOUDELPHIA
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guys the biggest goal was achieved last night, they all agreed on the money. that is why we nearly had a vote. Now that the money is done basically 2 issues remain

the player contract limits the NHL wants 5 max.

and length of CBA is 5 years with 2 option for max of 7

union wants 10 with a opt out after 8.

guys, honestly we have a deal. Honestly i think this weekend is basically a chance for the league to get the new schedule set up logistics, TV and gives networks time to setup the season. also gives chance for the players to come back from europe etc.

also prehaps the NHL and players should finish the deal without bettman and D fehr not in the room.

I honestly see 12/26 being the start of the season. we will play all east coast teams. I don't think we have enough games to play any western teams. I was hoping for 58-64 games, but alot has been lost, but I can see 56-58 games right in there. so for this short season we will see extra rival games.

NHL will make 18-20 million a day when the games are on again. Players also will be happy getting paid again. But its done

when you have agreements on both sides in the money category that means the most important issue is resolved.

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12-07-2012, 08:26 AM
  #402
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No they didn't agree on money. Fehr said they did but in reality they weren't even close. The NHL's offer was contingent on a 10 year CBA deal and the PA didn't want that. The NHL is not offering what they offered for anything less than 10 years.

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12-07-2012, 08:29 AM
  #403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood Couturier View Post
No they didn't agree on money. Fehr said they did but in reality they weren't even close. The NHL's offer was contingent on a 10 year CBA deal and the PA didn't want that. The NHL is not offering what they offered for anything less than 10 years.
AAron ward tweets
tNHLPA counter,players asking for 8 year term(year 6 option) on contracts and have agreed on significant money issue (Make Whole). #TSN

The money issue is basically agreed, i saw several tweets agreement was reached on money issue, now your right they probably didn't get all that they wanted, 82m is still left fehr wanted make hole at 382 its now at 300.

but I think where the money is now, its enough for a player vote and to end the lockout.

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12-07-2012, 08:32 AM
  #404
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Didn't the NHL put $100M more on the table during these negotiations only for the PA to take it and give nothing back? The thing about the vote is that they most likely won't have one until Fehr signs off on it which won't happen.

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12-07-2012, 08:38 AM
  #405
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Originally Posted by Hollywood Couturier View Post
Didn't the NHL put $100M more on the table during these negotiations only for the PA to take it and give nothing back? The thing about the vote is that they most likely won't have one until Fehr signs off on it which won't happen.
Yeah the NHL did put 100M more in, the make whole was at 200.

PA wants it at 382 its at 300 now, in exchange the league wants max contracts at 5, union wants it to be 6 yrs with options.

also the players don't need fehr to sign off on it. alls it takes is a players majority vote in favor of the deal.

now your right, i think they want fehr to sign it and know they got a great deal.

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12-07-2012, 08:40 AM
  #406
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i also see this, the beg / middle of week is important NHL has to make a decision how many more games to cancel. the whole thing could fall off completly. be interesting to see how many games get cancelled this time around my guess is rest of december.

but without a season, that basically prolongs the lockout

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12-07-2012, 09:04 AM
  #407
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Originally Posted by Mkoll View Post
So I have heard about the NHL/Owners concessions, but has the players union made any? I am sure I just missed it.
Dropping to 50% HRR, and contract limits off the top of my head. I forget exactly what the UFA/RFA numbers are but they might have made concessions there as well.

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12-07-2012, 09:16 AM
  #408
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Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
Dropping to 50% HRR, and contract limits off the top of my head. I forget exactly what the UFA/RFA numbers are but they might have made concessions there as well.
Appreciate that would you say the players have conceeded more? or the owners? or is it about even so far?

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12-07-2012, 09:35 AM
  #409
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Appreciate that would you say the players have conceeded more? or the owners? or is it about even so far?
The players are conceding from just about everything relative to the last CBA. They might have gotten some pension help from the owners, but I don't know much about that so I don't know for sure.

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12-07-2012, 10:11 AM
  #410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHILOUDELPHIA View Post
AAron ward tweets
tNHLPA counter,players asking for 8 year term(year 6 option) on contracts and have agreed on significant money issue (Make Whole). #TSN

The money issue is basically agreed, i saw several tweets agreement was reached on money issue, now your right they probably didn't get all that they wanted, 82m is still left fehr wanted make hole at 382 its now at 300.

but I think where the money is now, its enough for a player vote and to end the lockout.
There wasn't any agreement on the money issue, the NHL offered some "package deals" (Ex: Package #1 = 300M [Make Whole] + 10 year length with the Opt-out after Year 8 [CBA Length] / NHLPA agrees to [Make Whole] but rejects the [CBA Length]) so that means that package is not agreed upon, hence there's no agreement on the money issues.

The NHLPA seemed to have cherry picked items they liked, while ignoring other items they didn't like from the "package deals", and thought that even though they refused certain items, that are basically the reason why the other items they liked was included, the NHL was still going to agree to the term of that specific item.

At their respective press conference, Fehr looked like an idiot, and Bettman looked pissed off at the NHLPA/Fehr to misled fans/media to believe that a deal was "close" with a false statement.


Last edited by haleks: 12-07-2012 at 10:22 AM.
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12-07-2012, 10:57 AM
  #411
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I really hope most of this is posturing.

The sides are astoundingly close. Is length of CBA + 2 years really too much to work around? Split it even and move on.

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12-07-2012, 11:51 AM
  #412
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that pc by bettman last night was epic. hate how the owners are *****ing about contracts they gave out. some in the last week of the cba. hopefully last night scared the PA and we can get something done soon

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12-07-2012, 11:54 AM
  #413
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
I really hope most of this is posturing.

The sides are astoundingly close. Is length of CBA + 2 years really too much to work around? Split it even and move on.
I think the length of the CBA is crucial to owners. Make whole has them making payments in years 2-5, so a CBA that lets the players opt out after year 6 gives the owners one full season of 50/50. Obviously the players deserve the money they were promised, but it stands to reason if the owners are giving more money up front that they would want additional years to reap the benefit of 50/50.

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12-07-2012, 12:13 PM
  #414
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Fehr misleading the media was stupid. Bettman's temper tantrum was equally stupid. But, I think the owners come out as the dumbest party after taking make whole off the table. That's the same as the players insisting on de-linkage or no cap.

A simple "Fehr misled you. X was the deal. We cannot accept their proposal because X is not the case. We will have to resume discussions to get closer together" would have been FAR more constructive than "RARGH! NO MORE MAKE WHOLE!" It also would have left the league looking better than the PA. Though, it doesn't matter, because it seems that way too many people believe the owners and Bettman can do no wrong and the PA can do no right, so it's not hard for them to win PR battles. Bettman can throw any hissy fit he wants and set back negotiations as far as he wants, and people will support it because the players are the Great Evil.


Last edited by Beef Invictus: 12-07-2012 at 12:20 PM.
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12-07-2012, 12:40 PM
  #415
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Fehr and Bettman both looked bad yesterday. Who you want to believe was "right" depends on what brand of kool-aide you are drinking.
As its been said already, the well has been poisoned. Actions of both Fehr and Bettman killed any progress that had been made. Fehr ended any progress and Bettman just pushed everything off the cliff.
I hate to say it but this season is toast.

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12-07-2012, 12:43 PM
  #416
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We don't understand anything anymore... They want less salaries, done. Less rights, done. Anything else? U want our arms and legs too?

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12-07-2012, 12:45 PM
  #417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Fehr and Bettman both looked bad yesterday. Who you want to believe was "right" depends on what brand of kool-aide you are drinking.
As its been said already, the well has been poisoned. Actions of both Fehr and Bettman killed any progress that had been made. Fehr ended any progress and Bettman just pushed everything off the cliff.
I hate to say it but this season is toast.
Pretty much. Both sides are blowing it pretty hard.

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12-07-2012, 12:45 PM
  #418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHILOUDELPHIA View Post
AAron ward tweets
tNHLPA counter,players asking for 8 year term(year 6 option) on contracts and have agreed on significant money issue (Make Whole). #TSN

The money issue is basically agreed, i saw several tweets agreement was reached on money issue, now your right they probably didn't get all that they wanted, 82m is still left fehr wanted make hole at 382 its now at 300.

but I think where the money is now, its enough for a player vote and to end the lockout.
They only agreed on money if there's a 10 year CBA

300m make whole is tied to the 10 year cba

PA wants 8.

they ain't getting the 300m make whole

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12-07-2012, 12:47 PM
  #419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
Pretty much. Both sides are blowing it pretty hard.
The whole thing is hilarious

From the NHL Podium twitter account on wednesday to the whole thing on thursday. Just hilarious

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12-07-2012, 12:56 PM
  #420
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I would rather them hammer out the amount of years the CBA should be. Then attaching a $$ number to the lifespan of the CBA.

Attaching a monetary amount to a CBA whose halflife hasn't been determined yet is going to confuse and anger both sides.

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12-07-2012, 01:01 PM
  #421
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This is ridiculous...

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12-07-2012, 01:05 PM
  #422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
Fehr misleading the media was stupid. Bettman's temper tantrum was equally stupid. But, I think the owners come out as the dumbest party after taking make whole off the table. That's the same as the players insisting on de-linkage or no cap.

A simple "Fehr misled you. X was the deal. We cannot accept their proposal because X is not the case. We will have to resume discussions to get closer together" would have been FAR more constructive than "RARGH! NO MORE MAKE WHOLE!" It also would have left the league looking better than the PA. Though, it doesn't matter, because it seems that way too many people believe the owners and Bettman can do no wrong and the PA can do no right, so it's not hard for them to win PR battles. Bettman can throw any hissy fit he wants and set back negotiations as far as he wants, and people will support it because the players are the Great Evil.
Fehr came out and straight up lied (misled would be far too generous a term) to the media. Bettman wasn't even planning on doing a press conference afaik, he only came back to address the blatant shenanigans Fehr was trying to pull that, had they not been addressed, would have set the table to make the owners look bad when they responded negatively to the PA's "proposal".

Sure, you can argue that Bettman shouldn't have said that the deal was off the table, but if you actually think the deal is off the table then you just don't have a firm cognitive grasp of the situation. Fehr's pulicity ploy was lying to everyone, getting fan's hopes needlessly up and trying to set Bettman up for a good ole' fashioned effigy burning. Bettman's publicity ploy was to discredit Fehr publically for being a liar and water the wedge between the PA membership that was, by many accounts, a seed that had already been sown. I actually think that his presser went pretty well - all things considered, but you have every right to try to use hyperbole to call it a hissy fit... it is your schtick, after all.

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12-07-2012, 01:20 PM
  #423
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I've been fairly neutral through this whole debacle, but i have to say, the current predicament is absolutely the player's fault.

And i actually think, all things considered, that Bettman's press conference went fairly well.

Hopefully they can get back to negotiating at some point.

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12-07-2012, 01:26 PM
  #424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CootaRoo View Post
Fehr came out and straight up lied (misled would be far too generous a term) to the media. Bettman wasn't even planning on doing a press conference afaik, he only came back to address the blatant shenanigans Fehr was trying to pull that, had they not been addressed, would have set the table to make the owners look bad when they responded negatively to the PA's "proposal".

Sure, you can argue that Bettman shouldn't have said that the deal was off the table, but if you actually think the deal is off the table then you just don't have a firm cognitive grasp of the situation. Fehr's pulicity ploy was lying to everyone, getting fan's hopes needlessly up and trying to set Bettman up for a good ole' fashioned effigy burning. Bettman's publicity ploy was to discredit Fehr publically for being a liar and water the wedge between the PA membership that was, by many accounts, a seed that had already been sown. I actually think that his presser went pretty well - all things considered, but you have every right to try to use hyperbole to call it a hissy fit... it is your schtick, after all.
I mean, if Bettman thinks acting like a slighted middle schooler helps his cause, that's cool I guess. If he thinks wasting more time by removing make-whole (and pissing off the players) gets negotiations done quicker, he's wrong, but that's cool I guess. If he thinks he couldn't have made Fehr look just as bad by calmly telling the media Fehr was misleading them and why, well...he's wrong again, but that's cool I guess.

The NHL handled the the situation terribly, from the owners to Bettman...especially since it's become clear from tweets that owners have said they basically refuse to negotiate with Fehr. Great attitude there. Really constructive.

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12-07-2012, 01:39 PM
  #425
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given how both sides have acted over the course of this CBA so far..

its truely amazing there even is a NHL for ****s sake..

its like watching the worst company/union meeting EVER in the history of the universe..

both sides need a slap in the face from mom, and told to start acting like adults.

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