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NHL Attendance

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02-14-2005, 12:36 AM
  #1
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NHL Attendance

Just thought i'd post this after doing some research on nhl attendance of teams.
In 2003-2004 the bottom 6 teams in attendance were the Capitals, Islanders, Blackhawks, Predators, Hurricanes, Penguins. So that is 2 teams out of 6 that are playing in new cities since the 90s.

So before people start saying that the NHL shouldn't be in cities like Columbus and Tampa Bay, who both get above average attendance, look at the facts. I see no reason why the NHL can't survive with 30 teams. With good marketing and promotions in places where hockey isn't that popular I am sure it can survive.

Although that isn't to say that some teams shouldn't be moved, but don't count the NHL to have 15 teams in Canada.
Maybe if there is a salary cap and revenue sharing (fingers crossed) base the revenue sharing on the attendance teams get.

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02-14-2005, 12:45 AM
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futurcorerock
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People who say that Columbus and Tampa Bay are not fit to have franchises are ridiculously uneducated. In my opinion, they shouldnt even be posting here at HFboards.

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02-14-2005, 12:46 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by futurcorerock
People who say that Columbus and Tampa Bay are not fit to have franchises are ridiculously uneducated. In my opinion, they shouldnt even be posting here at HFboards.
Then again, wasn't it Tampa Bay that talked to Winnipeg about moving the franchise?

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02-14-2005, 12:50 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smail
Then again, wasn't it Tampa Bay that talked to Winnipeg about moving the franchise?
There's plenty of reasons why NHL teams would up and leave.

The Ducks would probably be the first to leave only because of a change in owner groups. If owners change hands and he owns the team fair and square, he can do whatever he wants with his team.

After all, this is the same NHL that moved the North Stars to Dallas

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02-14-2005, 12:50 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smail
Then again, wasn't it Tampa Bay that talked to Winnipeg about moving the franchise?
I think that was Pittsburgh.

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02-14-2005, 12:54 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerNut
I think that was Pittsburgh.
It was Tampa. It's been confirmed. If you want a link, do a google search. Sorry for being blunt.

In response to your original post, I'd like to mention that the rich teams don't want to share their money. I blame my team, Colorado, as well as Dallas, Detroit, Philadelphia, New York, and Toronto for their failure to help out their weaker siblings. The players were willing to take huge paycuts and impose some salary restrictions to slow down inflation (and maybe even stop it with a strong enough luxury tax). But, what the players won't take responsbility for is helping out the weak franchises. They shouldn't have to either. That problem should rest on the heads of the wealthy teams (just as it does in the most successful pro sports league....the NFL). The wealthy teams caused the escalation in salaries that resulted in the economic hardships of the small markets (including Winnipeg and Quebec).

Also, anyone else been watching classic games lately? The gameplay was far superior to the current NHL where half the players belong in the AHL. I am praying some teams go belly up. There should only be 20 teams in the league.

Anyone else hear rumours of a european super league coming to fruition? It has the legs to get off the ground (arenas, commercial TV, billionaires, large markets) which sharply contrasts that of the WHA. If it ever provides a better on-ice product...I will kiss the NHL good-bye (if I don't already).


Last edited by fcbarcelona: 02-14-2005 at 01:06 AM.
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Old
02-14-2005, 12:56 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerNut
I think that was Pittsburgh.
Winnipeg's Mayor sent a personal letter to the ownership group involved with the Penguins, who declined his offer to move the team to Winnipeg.

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02-14-2005, 02:43 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerNut
Just thought i'd post this after doing some research on nhl attendance of teams.
In 2003-2004 the bottom 6 teams in attendance were the Capitals, Islanders, Blackhawks, Predators, Hurricanes, Penguins. So that is 2 teams out of 6 that are playing in new cities since the 90s.

So before people start saying that the NHL shouldn't be in cities like Columbus and Tampa Bay, who both get above average attendance, look at the facts. I see no reason why the NHL can't survive with 30 teams. With good marketing and promotions in places where hockey isn't that popular I am sure it can survive.

Although that isn't to say that some teams shouldn't be moved, but don't count the NHL to have 15 teams in Canada.
Maybe if there is a salary cap and revenue sharing (fingers crossed) base the revenue sharing on the attendance teams get.
People always look at home attendance figures .. That effects only one revenue stream .. Road Attendace are far more important as the small market non-traditional teams bring down revenue in 29 other Cities for lack of interest and rivalry ..

A team like you mentioned Columbus may drawe fans at home but are one of teh worst attrations on the road and fans spend their money elsewhere instead of on Hockey when they and many others come to town .. Chicago won 7 road games last season .. How would they draw .. Pittsburgh has no following on the road without Mario and even less at home sometimes ..

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02-14-2005, 02:50 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by futurcorerock
People who say that Columbus and Tampa Bay are not fit to have franchises are ridiculously uneducated. In my opinion, they shouldnt even be posting here at HFboards.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attend..._avg&year=2004

Columbus and TB are ranked 25 and 26th in Road attendance ..

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02-14-2005, 05:48 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attend..._avg&year=2004

Columbus and TB are ranked 25 and 26th in Road attendance ..
Great ... yet a new line of kvetching is heard from the hockey snobs ... "Wahhh!!! wahhh!! My team can't draw good crowds at home because your team sucks ... Wahhh!!! wahhh!!!"..

9 of the 11 teams at the bottom have been in the league less than 15 years, and most haven't won anything yet(as is often the case with recent expansion teams, in any league).

No matter ... off with their heads!

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02-14-2005, 06:16 AM
  #11
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Lets see how well Tampa draw when there is a season. I'll bet its way up.

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02-14-2005, 06:16 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attend..._avg&year=2004

Columbus and TB are ranked 25 and 26th in Road attendance ..
Unfortunately, all the elitist hockey markets must play host to the dreck from time to time --- them's the rules --- and since each of the sterling markets must account for the horrendous crowds brought in when the illegitimate teams play in their arenas, perhaps the only way to sort your data is by looking at overall figures, combining home and away ....

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attend..._ave&year=2004

... where Colorado ranks first at 94.4%, and Columbus ranks 12th at 88.0% (just behind nos. 10 and 11, Calgary and Montreal, who averaged 88.6% each).


Edit: added last bit, as I couldn't link the data to show the overall percentage sort


Last edited by jacketracket*: 02-14-2005 at 06:23 AM.
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Old
02-14-2005, 06:18 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attend..._avg&year=2004

Columbus and TB are ranked 25 and 26th in Road attendance ..
look at the division the Bolts are in though. They have the Capitals, Thrashers, Panthers and Hurricanes. 2 of the bottom 6 teams in the league.

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02-14-2005, 06:46 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Lets see how well Tampa draw when there is a season. I'll bet its way up.
My thoughts exactly.

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02-14-2005, 06:48 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attend..._avg&year=2004

Columbus and TB are ranked 25 and 26th in Road attendance ..

In Columbus' case. who just goes out and wants to watch an expansion team (me for one, but thats just me, I did go to a Flyers/Blue Jackets game a few years ago)?



And look a the division Tampa Bay is in. Florida, Carolina and Washington. 2 of the teams on the list here, and Florida probably should be.

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02-14-2005, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attend..._avg&year=2004

Columbus and TB are ranked 25 and 26th in Road attendance ..
Two points:

1. Hoping for good marketing and good promotion out of Gary Bettman's NHL is like hoping to squeeze a drop of orange juice out of a piece of concrete.

2. Road attendance is a faux-indicator. Look at Tampa: It's playing in a division with two of the bottom six teams in home attendance. Now look at Edmonton, which is ranked 15th overall, above such "unpopular" teams as Philly, Dallas and LA. Any chance playing the majority of its road games against Vancouver, Calgary, Colorado and Minnesota affects their road average?

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02-14-2005, 07:05 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJD Jester
2. Road attendance is a faux-indicator. Look at Tampa: It's playing in a division with two of the bottom six teams in home attendance. Now look at Edmonton, which is ranked 15th overall, above such "unpopular" teams as Philly, Dallas and LA. Any chance playing the majority of its road games against Vancouver, Calgary, Colorado and Minnesota affects their road average?

Same thing for the Blue Jackets who plays in a division with the two of the bottom 6 in attendance.

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02-14-2005, 07:15 AM
  #18
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No offense, but who gives a hoot about road attendance. Its the responsbility of any franchise to get fans to come out to watch the home team.

If franchises are depending on road teams to boost their attendance numbers than there are much bigger issues than just road attendance to worry about.

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02-14-2005, 07:24 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top Shelf
No offense, but who gives a hoot about road attendance. Its the responsbility of any franchise to get fans to come out to watch the home team.

If franchises are depending on road teams to boost their attendance numbers than there are much bigger issues than just road attendance to worry about.
Well put.

And some more fun with numbers ... the separation between the top road draw and the bottom is only 2,000 per game, and the league-wide average in 2004 (from the espn numbers) was 16,534. Columbus and Tampa Bay, at 25th and 26th, were only drawing ~500 less per road game than the league average.

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02-14-2005, 10:00 AM
  #20
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Originally Posted by me2
Lets see how well Tampa draw when there is a season. I'll bet its way up.
Yeah until they don't make the playoffs, then we'll see the real Tampa fans.

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02-14-2005, 10:21 AM
  #21
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Even before they won the cup, I would have loved to see Tampa at SJ. I appreciate the TB style of play the excitement it brings to the game.

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02-14-2005, 10:24 AM
  #22
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I forgot to add about Columbus and Nashville. We did see some exciting contests with them as well. When players are trying to make it to the next level they bring an extra energy that you don't see with teams that are just grinding out a system.

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Old
02-14-2005, 10:52 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attend..._avg&year=2004

Columbus and TB are ranked 25 and 26th in Road attendance ..
You act so surprised. No kidding they draw low numbers on the road. 4th year team that hasnt had a single winning season. The point was that The BlueJackets do very well at home for themselves despite having a not-so-stellar record.

In this lockout, have you ever seen road attendance numbers ever brought up? It's all about home attendance for some reason.

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02-14-2005, 01:12 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by futurecorerock
People who say that Columbus and Tampa Bay are not fit to have franchises are ridiculously uneducated. In my opinion, they shouldnt even be posting here at HFboards.
I think we should put you in charge around here

Quote:
Originally Posted by syc
Yeah until they don't make the playoffs, then we'll see the real Tampa fans.
and a drop in attendance for a bad team would be different from other teams in what way exactly?

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02-14-2005, 01:20 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smail
Then again, wasn't it Tampa Bay that talked to Winnipeg about moving the franchise?
I have it on good authority that the Winnipeg phone call was used as a ploy to help get the Lightning out of paying taxes on the arena. The Lightning were in discussions with city and county officials to move ownership of the arena to the county so that it would be exempt from over $1M worth of taxes per year (all other major sports teams in Tampa Bay don't pay these taxes). The phone call was basically a threat of the team moving and it got the discussions jump-started at a time when they were stagnant. The arena has been moved under the county now, and the team is exempt from paying the taxes as long as they stay in Tampa for the next 8 years.

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