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Old
02-14-2005, 02:04 PM
  #1
Mess
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Dougie Gilmour Says

That owners should think long and hard before going to replacement players ..

The Best Hockey players in the World is what makes the NHL what it is ..

He for one will not be attending any ACC games that have replacement players

Is he right ??

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02-14-2005, 02:21 PM
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Of course he's right.
The NHL is what it is because the best of the best are concentrated within its rosters.Take the quality away and whats left?

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02-14-2005, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
That owners should think long and hard before going to replacement players ..

The Best Hockey players in the World is what makes the NHL what it is ..

He for one will not be attending any ACC games that have replacement players

Is he right ??
Of course he is right. However, eventually the NHL will have the world's best players again no matter what. It may take a few years, but if the league were to exist with replacement players for 1 year, or 2 years, pride and greed would bring the players back. Very few would stick to their guns once a couple of top players came back.

I wouldn't go through the ACC (or Fleet Center) doors either until its settled. Not because I strongly support the NHLPA, but because my entertainment dollars are not to be wasted on replacement players when I have other options. I would, however, watch the tube.

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02-14-2005, 02:25 PM
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Europe watching, waiting

Overseas entrepreneurs could form a new super league


The National Hockey League is in serious danger of being declared dead for a season. If it does die, it could be dead forever.

If not, it at least may be dead as we know it. Its days as the world's premier hockey league may be behind it.

In Europe, a few wealthy businessmen have been waiting for this opportunity. They feel that they can succeed where the NHL has failed.

For months, there have been rumours about a Swiss billionaire who wanted to start a European super league should the NHL shut down for a year. They're partially true. But a source close to European hockey says there's more to it than that.

Read on:

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/2005/02/13/929881-sun.html

Makes Sense really .. If the best Players are there and the Areanas and investors to pay the players ..

Maybe the Best Hockey will be in Europe in the Future ..

and I always believed this was possible .
"And the league would probably get the cream of the young crop as well. Under the NHL's most recent proposal to end the lockout, every entry-level player would have to sign a four-year, two-way contract and could not earn more than $850,000 US annually inclusive of bonuses.

You can bet that players like Sidney Crosby and Alexander Ovechkin can get a better deal than that in Europe right now, let alone if a new, fully financed league were to come into being"



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02-14-2005, 02:29 PM
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For much less than NHL quality fans in a lot of cities have other options: AHL, junior, college, senior, or high school hockey where the cost to see them would be a lot less.

I can't see replacement players flying unless there is a wholescale abandoning of the NHLPA ship.

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02-14-2005, 02:38 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK
For much less than NHL quality fans in a lot of cities have other options: AHL, junior, college, senior, or high school hockey where the cost to see them would be a lot less.

I can't see replacement players flying unless there is a wholescale abandoning of the NHLPA ship.
I agree .. which would lead to the conclusion eventually that the Owners whether they like it or not will have to give in on some demands .. The players can earn a living, the owners not really . and if the Euro Super league or the WHA or other leagues start up that are willing to pay the NHLers more then the former NHL league will, then the current 30 owners are really screwed long-term ..

I also firmly believe that replacement players will fail miserably in the NHL .. and once that happens the NHL will have to crawl back to the former NHL players on hands and knees and that next CBA will be worse then that NHLPA proposal in December they received.

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02-14-2005, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
I agree .. which would lead to the conclusion eventually that the Owners whether they like it or not will have to give in on some demands .. The players can earn a living, the owners not really . and if the Euro Super league or the WHA or other leagues start up that are willing to pay the NHLers more then the former NHL league will, then the current 30 owners are really screwed long-term ..

I also firmly believe that replacement players will fail miserably in the NHL .. and once that happens the NHL will have to crawl back to the former NHL players on hands and knees and that next CBA will be worse then that NHLPA proposal in December they received.
For Euro leagues to accept hundreds of former NHL players then they would first need to change their rules about how many imports can play per team. And, is the money there anyway? With smaller rinks, lower ticket prices, and a shorter season I don't see where they have the money to get NHL players close to what they can make here.

A new league would start with, you guessed it, a salary cap, and much lower salaries.

Who will come crawling back to who isn't immediately obvious under those conditions.

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02-14-2005, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
I agree .. which would lead to the conclusion eventually that the Owners whether they like it or not will have to give in on some demands .. The players can earn a living, the owners not really . and if the Euro Super league or the WHA or other leagues start up that are willing to pay the NHLers more then the former NHL league will, then the current 30 owners are really screwed long-term ..
Mess, if the money isn't here how is it going to be there. This league can't continue with salaries they way they are, so how can another league offer higher salaries and be financially sound? You agreed with the 24% rollback, and even called it necessary, so how can a new league ignore that, offer higher salaries, and still make money?

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02-14-2005, 02:58 PM
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I would not go to Leafs game, if they had replacement players, unless the AHL team baby Leafs are moved up as the replacements, than I wouldn't mind it.

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02-14-2005, 03:04 PM
  #10
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With Replacement players the NHL would more exciting!!

Mistakes = exciting.

NHL Players are too good and dont make mistakes.

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02-14-2005, 03:05 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK
For Euro leagues to accept hundreds of former NHL players then they would first need to change their rules about how many imports can play per team. And, is the money there anyway? With smaller rinks, lower ticket prices, and a shorter season I don't see where they have the money to get NHL players close to what they can make here.

A new league would start with, you guessed it, a salary cap, and much lower salaries.

Who will come crawling back to who isn't immediately obvious under those conditions.
Sure they will change as they are now .. Who is to say that the former SEL league will change at all ..it may be independant of the existing Euro leagues .. These leagues have survived for years without NHLers and can still ..

This could simply be a NHL league overseas .. North America does not own the rights to be the home of the Best league in the World ..

Sure Areana's may be smaller but think outside the box to HUGE Euro TV PACKAGE .. In many of these countries Sweden Finland Russia Czech are all Diehard Hockey fans and are not really distracted by Baseball, Football, and Basketball as they have in the states .. You might have 10,000 local fans live but Millions world wide tuning in through TV .. I would by a Euro Centre Ice package via Satelite to watch Mats and Sakic and Iginla play .. How many North American Die-Hard fans would pay money ..

The NFL big TV contract gives it strength ,,so could this ..

You could even have these teams play games in Hamilton and other North American Arean's other then the current 30 that exists .. Our WHL Areana in Kelowna holds nearly 16,000 seats there must be Arena's every where that would bring out fans .

Lots of options and some of your concerns coould be addressed with the game and the rules .. in a Super Euro league ..

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02-14-2005, 03:19 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Around in 67
Mess, if the money isn't here how is it going to be there. This league can't continue with salaries they way they are, so how can another league offer higher salaries and be financially sound? You agreed with the 24% rollback, and even called it necessary, so how can a new league ignore that, offer higher salaries, and still make money?
Euro investors and big TV contracts ..

I am a Die Hard fan .. I don't live in a NHL city so watching my Favourite players is done through TV and Satelite packages ..

Why would it matter if I am watching my Favourites play at the ACC in Toronto or Stockholm, Moscow, Helsinki, Oslo, Zurich etc ..

A Euro Tv market would have all of starving NA Fans to pull from and now open up all of Europe and its fans to the Best players in the world ..

This would be an easy sell and in fact has more success potential as a TV deal then anything Bettman has ever done .. He wants to make NHL HOCKEY fans in NA ..Europe has them by the millions already and just need to buy into a TV package to watch its homeland stars play with the added bonus that you can see them live as well in addition ..

That TV money pays player contracts and gate receipts make local Owners profit with Salaries paid for ..

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02-14-2005, 03:46 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
That owners should think long and hard before going to replacement players ..

The Best Hockey players in the World is what makes the NHL what it is ..

He for one will not be attending any ACC games that have replacement players

Is he right ??
The Messenger...............

I remember when I was a kid.........I always wanted to play for the Toronto Maple Leafs..........this might be my best chance yet at making the club.........Oh Boy!!!!........I might be able to talk a couple of the kids on my street into playing for the Toronto Maple Leafs as well.........wait right here I will be right back!

Cheers!

monkey_00

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02-14-2005, 03:46 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Sure they will change as they are now .. Who is to say that the former SEL league will change at all ..it may be independant of the existing Euro leagues .. These leagues have survived for years without NHLers and can still ..

This could simply be a NHL league overseas .. North America does not own the rights to be the home of the Best league in the World ..

Sure Areana's may be smaller but think outside the box to HUGE Euro TV PACKAGE .. In many of these countries Sweden Finland Russia Czech are all Diehard Hockey fans and are not really distracted by Baseball, Football, and Basketball as they have in the states .. You might have 10,000 local fans live but Millions world wide tuning in through TV .. I would by a Euro Centre Ice package via Satelite to watch Mats and Sakic and Iginla play .. How many North American Die-Hard fans would pay money ..

The NFL big TV contract gives it strength ,,so could this ..

You could even have these teams play games in Hamilton and other North American Arean's other then the current 30 that exists .. Our WHL Areana in Kelowna holds nearly 16,000 seats there must be Arena's every where that would bring out fans .

Lots of options and some of your concerns coould be addressed with the game and the rules .. in a Super Euro league ..
The Europeans have their own distractions. Soccer is a year round sport, auto racing is big, and they are more into the individual winter sports such as downhill skiing, bobsleds, etc.

Marketing is another big problem because every country has their own sports consumer profile that will need to be considered individually.

I don't know how many hockey mad billionaires are out there willing to spend their own money to finance a league in a sport where hockey is the number one in no place except Finland.

In the end the best thing is for the NHL to survive because that is where the players will make the most money. If they did go to Europe and cooperated with a new league and played for the principle of the thing and not just money I could gain more respect for them but I don't see it happening. Money rules.

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02-14-2005, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK
The Europeans have their own distractions. Soccer is a year round sport, auto racing is big, and they are more into the individual winter sports such as downhill skiing, bobsleds, etc.

Marketing is another big problem because every country has their own sports consumer profile that will need to be considered individually.

I don't know how many hockey mad billionaires are out there willing to spend their own money to finance a league in a sport where hockey is the number one in no place except Finland.

In the end the best thing is for the NHL to survive because that is where the players will make the most money. If they did go to Europe and cooperated with a new league and played for the principle of the thing and not just money I could gain more respect for them but I don't see it happening. Money rules.
Fair enough ..but does the NHL not face the same problem in the states to a much bigger degree with the big 3 USA Sports ??

Also lets expand the idea .. What if the MLSE and other big market NA teams joined the new Euro league as part of it ..

MLSE action todate by its Salary in a Bettman world are not supported .. Why not break away from a 30 team NHL with replacement as join the New World Super league .. The ACC would still be full to the rafters as would MSG and Pepsi Centre etc ..

What if it was made up of 10 NA based teams and 10 Euro based ones .

This is the best Hockey in the World .. Why can't it be played Worldwide ??

Why Carolina or Phoenix and not Moscow and Stockholm etc ??.

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02-14-2005, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey_00
The Messenger...............

I remember when I was a kid.........I always wanted to play for the Toronto Maple Leafs..........this might be my best chance yet at making the club.........Oh Boy!!!!........I might be able to talk a couple of the kids on my street into playing for the Toronto Maple Leafs as well.........wait right here I will be right back!

Cheers!

monkey_00
I would to without doubt .. I would lace them up .. but I am not a professional hockey player ..

You and I and the kids on the street as replacements could not fill the ACC or even a High school gym of Fans ..

What would be the difference from putting on our replica jerseys and playing in a beer league .. or putting on a leaf jersey and playing in the ACC .. It still wouldn't be playing in the NHL .. its just playing at the ACC ..NO ?

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02-14-2005, 04:39 PM
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What if this is the end to the NHL as we know it and the big market North America teams join this in a Hybrid NEW WORLD LEAGUE ..

For Example ..

North America Div

Detroit
Toronto
Philly
New York
Colorado
Dallas
St. Louis
LA
etc ..

Euro Division

Russia
Sweden
Finland
Czech
Swiss
Germany
Slovakia
England

etc


and the NHLers divided up .. Do you believe people in Europe would not pay to see that product .. ??

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02-14-2005, 04:42 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Fair enough ..but does the NHL not face the same problem in the states to a much bigger degree with the big 3 USA Sports ??

Also lets expand the idea .. What if the MLSE and other big market NA teams joined the new Euro league as part of it ..

MLSE action todate by its Salary in a Bettman world are not supported .. Why not break away from a 30 team NHL with replacement as join the New World Super league .. The ACC would still be full to the rafters as would MSG and Pepsi Centre etc ..

What if it was made up of 10 NA based teams and 10 Euro based ones .

This is the best Hockey in the World .. Why can't it be played Worldwide ??

Why Carolina or Phoenix and not Moscow and Stockholm etc ??.
In theory not a bad idea but there are too many reality related problems in the way.

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02-14-2005, 04:53 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
That owners should think long and hard before going to replacement players ..

The Best Hockey players in the World is what makes the NHL what it is ..

He for one will not be attending any ACC games that have replacement players

Is he right ??

I say to Dougie 'build it and they will come'.

Eventually the best talents will flock to the NHL anyways, just a matter of time.
It's such a dead end for the players. I think there's just too much ego on the players part right now.

But there will be a day where they will come back with their tails between their legs. Meanwhile I don't mind watching someone donning the Blue and White and working their butts off...that's good enough for me to cheer on the Leafs.

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02-14-2005, 05:01 PM
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Well at least at this point in the negotiations, there isn't likely to be too many "will Douggie play for the Leafs next season ?" threads ...

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02-14-2005, 05:52 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by cleduc
Well at least at this point in the negotiations, there isn't likely to be too many "will Douggie play for the Leafs next season ?" threads ...
I don't think there would be anyway, seeing as he's retired and all.

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02-15-2005, 06:47 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Euro investors and big TV contracts ..

I am a Die Hard fan .. I don't live in a NHL city so watching my Favourite players is done through TV and Satelite packages ..

Why would it matter if I am watching my Favourites play at the ACC in Toronto or Stockholm, Moscow, Helsinki, Oslo, Zurich etc ..

A Euro Tv market would have all of starving NA Fans to pull from and now open up all of Europe and its fans to the Best players in the world ..

This would be an easy sell and in fact has more success potential as a TV deal then anything Bettman has ever done .. He wants to make NHL HOCKEY fans in NA ..Europe has them by the millions already and just need to buy into a TV package to watch its homeland stars play with the added bonus that you can see them live as well in addition ..

That TV money pays player contracts and gate receipts make local Owners profit with Salaries paid for ..
Living in New Brunswick most of my games are not live either (usually 1 or on the rare occassion 2 a year) but I just don't believe there is the money/interest to do what you are proposing across the pond. Yes, there is more than enough interest (and I'm talking interest from owners, not fans) to run the leagues that are currently running, but I'm not so sure there is money to pay players more than the current NHL.

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02-15-2005, 10:55 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
What if this is the end to the NHL as we know it and the big market North America teams join this in a Hybrid NEW WORLD LEAGUE ..

For Example ..

North America Div

Detroit
Toronto
Philly
New York
Colorado
Dallas
St. Louis
LA
etc ..

Euro Division

Russia
Sweden
Finland
Czech
Swiss
Germany
Slovakia
England

etc


and the NHLers divided up .. Do you believe people in Europe would not pay to see that product .. ??

and traveling 12 hours?? lol

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02-15-2005, 12:44 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Around in 67
Living in New Brunswick most of my games are not live either (usually 1 or on the rare occassion 2 a year) but I just don't believe there is the money/interest to do what you are proposing across the pond. Yes, there is more than enough interest (and I'm talking interest from owners, not fans) to run the leagues that are currently running, but I'm not so sure there is money to pay players more than the current NHL.
I guess that depends on the size of the TV Contract ..

In the NFL a Cap system and Revenue Sharing works great because of a huge TV contract divided up ..

You and I might buy Centre Ice packages to see our team and Favourite players ..I wonder how many more there are in NA alone ?? and then open up all of Europe and those numbers could get very big ..

That's kind of what I am suggesting and is it worth exporing is the questions those Rich Euro Investors are pondering in this Super Euro league ..

I am trying like you to see if it makes sense ..

and if you look my Hybrid 20 teams 1/2 from NA including Toronto .. Not only do you have TV but gate receipts ..

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02-15-2005, 02:35 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
What if this is the end to the NHL as we know it and the big market North America teams join this in a Hybrid NEW WORLD LEAGUE ..

For Example ..

North America Div

Detroit
Toronto
Philly
New York
Colorado
Dallas
St. Louis
LA
etc ..

Euro Division

Russia
Sweden
Finland
Czech
Swiss
Germany
Slovakia
England

etc


and the NHLers divided up .. Do you believe people in Europe would not pay to see that product .. ??
The Messenger..........

I know I would and so too would the Europeans.........

I cant believe the way some of the fans on the other hfboards.com forum go about talking about the lower attendance figures over there in Europe compared to the NHL.......If you give them the best players in the world to watch in their League like we have now in the NHL theres no doubt in my mind their attendance figures would be pumped up.........

theres also alot of NHL teams in trouble and talk about a few of them folding up and closing shop if this lockout drags on any longer.........a very good friend of mine who works down at the Copps Coliseum told me that the Buffalo Sabres ownership payed a visit TWICE in January here in Hamilton Ontario.........makes you wonder eh?

Cheers!

monkey_00

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