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Too little too late?

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Old
02-15-2005, 04:51 AM
  #1
chiavsfan
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Too little too late?

Yes, the cap is on the table and the 2 sides are about 12 million dollars apart. I am of the opinion that the PA proposal is about 2 months too late. This proposal should have been on the table back then, and serious negotiation could have then started.

I am as hopeful as the next guy, but I just have to think with an announcement on Wednesday, this move by the PA was done at the wrong time.

Agree or disagree?

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02-15-2005, 04:53 AM
  #2
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If they can't get a deal done when this close. they will never get one done.

It's now or never for the players.

the time is now. 15h is the deadline get it doneboys.

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02-15-2005, 04:54 AM
  #3
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I think it should have been proposed in the summer, then the dumbasses wouldnt have lost hundreds of millions and also affected their future revenue prospects by driving fans away with the lockout.

This was all about Goodenows ego and him trying to "win" against Bettman, it had nothing to do with whats best for the players.

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02-15-2005, 05:03 AM
  #4
Lexicon Devil
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The huge concession came at the last minute - as it should in negotiations.

It's Bettman's fault that it's taken this long. Had he set a mid-January deadline, like he should have, then you would have seen the concession then.

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02-15-2005, 05:04 AM
  #5
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With Saskin offering this, and Goodenow being so steadfast against a cap, is it possible Goodenow is done as far as the players are concerned, seems to me like he was possibly fired.

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02-15-2005, 05:05 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexicon Devil
The huge concession came at the last minute - as it should in negotiations.

It's Bettman's fault that it's taken this long. Had he set a mid-January deadline, like he should have, then you would have seen the concession then.
Man the logic of the pro-PA yahoos is simply mindblowing...So it's Bettman's fault that Goodenow made their first serious offer at the last minute?? Too funny.

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02-15-2005, 05:05 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexicon Devil
The huge concession came at the last minute - as it should in negotiations.

It's Bettman's fault that it's taken this long. Had he set a mid-January deadline, like he should have, then you would have seen the concession then.

I disagree...the PA is caving b/c they know that the season is about as close to done as it gets. If a deal isn't done this week, they know they cannot have a reasonable season(not that a 28 game season is reasonable but you know what I mean.) If a hard deadline was set in January, the PA would of balked at the idea.

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02-15-2005, 05:10 AM
  #8
McDonald19
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The biggest obstacle is passed. NHLPA will now play under a Cap.

Now its just a matter of finding a compromise between the 52 million Cap the NHLPA wants and the 40 million Cap the NHL wants.

I'm optimistic they will agree to a deal tomorrow with a Cap somewhere in the 44-48 range.

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02-15-2005, 05:12 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McDonald19
I'm optimistic they will agree to a deal tomorrow with a Cap somewhere in the 44-48 range.
I've been optimistic all along and was called crazy for it...

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02-15-2005, 06:38 AM
  #10
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No... i dont think they will do this to the public.

The owners will have NO case come september if they literally murder this deal.

Likewise.... theres no honest reason why they would sign a deal, then cancel the season. No way, no how. You want to see some pissed off fans? Thats one of those ironic twists in life that always happens, failure by circumstance.

Sign Deal, Cancel Season = Self-Assisted Suicide.

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Old
02-15-2005, 06:52 AM
  #11
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Common sense will prevail, both parties lose much more than the $12M sticking point if they let the deal fall through. They might be stubborn but they are not dumb.

They have essentially 3 numbers to play with, X is the hard cap, Y is the soft cap and Z is the tax percentage. If NHL wants a low X, PA will insist having a low Y & Z etc.

Just the usual bargaining game which can be done in few hours.

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02-15-2005, 07:30 AM
  #12
Lexicon Devil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper
Man the logic of the pro-PA yahoos is simply mindblowing...So it's Bettman's fault that Goodenow made their first serious offer at the last minute?? Too funny.
No, Goodenow was always going to make the big concession at the last minute if it came down to it.

It's Bettman's fault that the last minute is now instead of a month ago. You think it's a coincidence that this concession comes two days before the cancellation of the season? You don't think there would have been more movement in January if the hard deadline was set for January 15th? You don't think the fact that it wasn't has something to do with putting pressure on European-based players with January-expiring contracts?

Quote:
Goodenow made their first serious offer at the last minute??
I find it hilarious when fans, who get their info from media outlets they constantly criticize, think that they know everything that goes on in negotiations. Yes, the only proposals that have been put forth are those that have gone through the media. Everything's being orchestrated like a nice little soap opera for your personal viewing enjoyment.


Last edited by Lexicon Devil: 02-15-2005 at 07:43 AM.
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Old
02-15-2005, 07:35 AM
  #13
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I don't think we know the whole story. The NHLPA gave the salary cap, but probably asked for something in return.

I remember hearing that there are around 250 points to an average CB. You can probably remove half that are easy to agree upon or just stupid little details. That leaves you will about a 100 points to negotiate.

So, if they agreed to the salary cap right now, they'd just move to a different problem, and the NHLPA would want something in return for the cap, probably in regards to free agency.

Also, after signing the CBA, the teams would have to get organised, hire back all employees, sign free agents, bring players back, order equipement, etc.... So, that would take at least 7 days, maybe a bit more. Plus, the league would have to set up the schedule, organise charters, sell tickets, do the marketing.

Then, training camp and exhibition games. A few players haven;t been playing much and there would be a lot of players fighting for positions on teams. It would take at least a week of training camps and a week of exhibition games.

We're probably looking at a week for each stage, so they'd be starting in Mid March, which would be stupid and turn the season in a joke. It would probably just piss off most fans. So, I doubt anything will happen this year.

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02-15-2005, 07:36 AM
  #14
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what blows my mind is the fans who seem joined at the hip to one side or the other....look, neither side is your friend, neither side gives a damn about you, you wanna buddy up with the NHLPA or the NHL and treat them like they can do no wrong? what does that get you? nothing. both sides are to blame for this mess and neither should get a free pass

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02-15-2005, 07:38 AM
  #15
Pepper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexicon Devil
No, Goodenow was always going to make the big concession at the last minute if it came down to it.

It's Bettman's fault that the last minute is now instead of a month ago. You think it's a coincidence that this concession comes two days before the cancellation of the season? You don't think there would have been more movement in January if the hard deadline was set for January 25th? You don't think the fact that it wasn't has something to do with putting pressure on European-based players with January-expiring contracts?
A last minute happening a month ago wouldn't have been realistic or credible, if he had done that a month ago Bettman would have had to eat his words or cancel the season back then already, a lose-lose situation.

Had PA agreed to let go of the no-hard cap stance a month ago we would be seeing NHL as we speak.

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02-15-2005, 07:38 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Also, after signing the CBA, the teams would have to get organised, hire back all employees, sign free agents, bring players back, order equipement, etc.... So, that would take at least 7 days, maybe a bit more. Plus, the league would have to set up the schedule, organise charters, sell tickets, do the marketing.

Then, training camp and exhibition games. A few players haven;t been playing much and there would be a lot of players fighting for positions on teams. It would take at least a week of training camps and a week of exhibition games.

We're probably looking at a week for each stage, so they'd be starting in Mid March, which would be stupid and turn the season in a joke. It would probably just piss off most fans. So, I doubt anything will happen this year.
i believe they already have a "plan" in place in case a CBA gets signed by this week or so, they'd just follow that. i kind of doubt they'd play any exhibition games really, and i also bet that most teams have a list of FA's lined up and have had some form of contact with them during this just in case (yeah maybe it's not "kosher" but you think that would stop teams? nah)

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02-15-2005, 07:39 AM
  #17
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The reason this went so long is b/c Bettman's 'non-deadline' setting strategy backfired. Now that the deadline is set sh** is getting done.

...at the same time if Bettman comes out of this with a cap then one could say maybe his strategy worked but I believe if the deadline was set two months ago we would be looking at the same deal we are today.

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02-15-2005, 07:40 AM
  #18
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The NHL absolutley has to neogotiate off this. There is no possible way an impasse exists, so replacement players are no longer an option. So the choices are: 1) split the difference now and get a cap at $46 million, or, 2)wait until this time next year in hopes of more concessions. They cannot possibly think they'd be better off with option #2.

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02-15-2005, 07:42 AM
  #19
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yeah, if this is seriously just down to money now...i can't see bettman calling off the season today and not getting something done. it's just numbers now, and i think hockey fans will be even MORE pissed if they don't get a deal done at this point, and losing a whole season by refusing to negotiate over numbers is gonna cost the NHL

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02-15-2005, 07:43 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiavsfan
Yes, the cap is on the table and the 2 sides are about 12 million dollars apart. I am of the opinion that the PA proposal is about 2 months too late. This proposal should have been on the table back then, and serious negotiation could have then started.

I am as hopeful as the next guy, but I just have to think with an announcement on Wednesday, this move by the PA was done at the wrong time.

Agree or disagree?
It is only to late because Bettman never gave a drop dead date back at the beginning of January. I knew all along that the players would not cave or bend until a deadline was set.

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Old
02-15-2005, 07:43 AM
  #21
Lexicon Devil
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A last minute happening a month ago wouldn't have been realistic or credible, if he had done that a month ago Bettman would have had to eat his words or cancel the season back then already, a lose-lose situation.
Why not? It very well could have resulted in a deal, which is my whole point. Of course, Bettman didn't want to take a chance, so we have these ridiculous negotations still going on in mid-February.

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Old
02-15-2005, 07:45 AM
  #22
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52 million is NOT a realistic number and it won't solve anything

Only benefit the league would have from accepting this, is that Bryan McCabe is officially done, as he will never in his life play under a cap

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02-15-2005, 07:48 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kremlin
52 million is NOT a realistic number and it won't solve anything

Only benefit the league would have from accepting this, is that Bryan McCabe is officially done, as he will never in his life play under a cap

Man the Flyers will be really bummed out about that !!! :lol

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02-15-2005, 07:59 AM
  #24
richardn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kremlin
52 million is NOT a realistic number and it won't solve anything

Only benefit the league would have from accepting this, is that Bryan McCabe is officially done, as he will never in his life play under a cap
52 is realistic taken into consideration the players have still offered their 24% rollback. The league needs to either nogiate off the 52 down to 45 or have a 40 with a max of 52 with a high tax system for teams over 40.

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02-15-2005, 08:13 AM
  #25
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Definately Bettman is to blame for not setting a deadline a long time ago. We still don't have a deadline and its Feb 15th. If he had any balls, he would have set it at Jan 15th back in December.

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