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Marian Gaborik at 2013 Draft

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Old
11-23-2012, 05:13 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
You're valuation are completely off. This would be a terrible, terrible deal for the Wild.

Setoguchi for Gaborik is all I would do at this point. And I an not sure I would do that if Setoguchi develops any chemistry with Granlund.

Gaborik is past his prime, and he is basically a 2nd line carry at this point in his career, not a 1st liner. He has always been a solo player, having a hard time developing chemistry with anybody. There is a strong argument that he plays his best hockey with a so-so set-up man center and an energy guy who is willing to dig pucks out of corners for him.

Which is why the Nash pick-up was so fantastic for the Rangers. Nash-Richard-Kreider for a first line. Gaborik on the 2nd.
Gaborik was third in goals last year and 15th in points. How exactly is he a second liner?

He does have a sort of ninja mentality, but once Richards actually started playing well last season, they complimented each other quite well. And they both benefited from have an "energy guy who is willing to dig pucks out of corners" in Hagelin. The fact that Hagelin and Kreider are both speedsters and that Hagelin's body was done by the time the playoffs came around meant that Kreider could hop in there.
For next year, I like keeping
Hagelin-Richards-Gaborik
Kreider-Stepan-Nash
with Callahan on the third line with #1 PP and #1 PK duties, which will still earn him 18-19 minutes a game. I wouldn't mind Gaborik and Nash swapped (because Gaborik played well with Stepan, too), but that's not because Gaborik isn't a great 1st liner.

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Old
11-23-2012, 05:22 PM
  #77
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Rangers would be stupid to trade him unless the team somehow tanks ( wont happen )

When healthy ( and he's been healthy more often than not since joining the Rangers ) he's a obvious special player

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11-23-2012, 05:26 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post

Gaborik is past his prime, and he is basically a 2nd line carry at this point in his career, not a 1st liner.
He scored 41 goals last year. One less than his highest scoring season. Past his prime? Rofl.

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11-23-2012, 05:51 PM
  #79
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He'd be a lot more valuable at the trade deadline(if there's a season) than he would at the draft. I'd be willing to do Raymond, Kassian, 2013 2nd, and a conditonal 2014 1st if the Canucks make the SCFs in either of the next two years at the deadline.

But at draft day I'd rather just go after Perry or something.

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11-23-2012, 06:02 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
He'd be a lot more valuable at the trade deadline(if there's a season) than he would at the draft. I'd be willing to do Raymond, Kassian, 2013 2nd, and a conditonal 2014 1st if the Canucks make the SCFs in either of the next two years at the deadline.

But at draft day I'd rather just go after Perry or something.
The Rangers won't be looking to deal him at the deadline.

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11-23-2012, 06:03 PM
  #81
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IMO,

1. Gaborik won't be traded. They will try to renegotiate contracts down next round and ask him to take a little less, which some of them may do to a nominal degree to stay here.

2. That means someone like Girardi and his 4.25ish m who is highly valued, but arguably not as indispensable as a 30g scorer w/40ish potential is more likely to be moved.

EVEN MORE LIKELY THAN MOVING (actual) GIRARDI will be an effort to move 2 guys of lesser salary instead.

3. Rangers best bet in a scenario such as this trying to shed a big contract is to hang on a couple of years, then move Brad Richards instead of Gaborik (as long as he has the wheels and, more importantly, the shot).

4. If Gaborik were to waive NMC, depending upon when, Rangers would receive mid + late 1st value + for him, no higher ---- unless Rangers add, then maybe higher pick could happen, especially if the trading partner had a surplus of picks.

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11-23-2012, 06:11 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
The Rangers won't be looking to deal him at the deadline.
Then imo they'd just be better off keeping him.

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11-23-2012, 06:32 PM
  #83
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As a Rangers fan I'd rather find someone else to be the sacrificial lamb for the cap rather than Gabby. Even when Gabby slows down he's still going to be putting the puck in the net. His shot is elite, and not for nothing NYR has very good play makers so an aging Gaborik really shouldn't be a problem. Of course there's always the looming threat of injuries with this guy, but all things considered the Rangers have been fairly fortunate with his health since he came to NY.

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11-23-2012, 06:34 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Then imo they'd just be better off keeping him.
The only reason we'd look to trade him would be if we couldn't resign our RFAs. If we can squeeze his salary in, he won't be moved. This is pretty much a preemptive thread seeing as we don't know how the cap/salaries will look.

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11-23-2012, 07:04 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Is everyone making the "Gaborik isn't injury prone" claims ignoring his terrible playoffs, the result of a shoulder injury with a five to six month recovery period?


Gabby had shoulder surgery in June, it is November now; almost December.

How many months is that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
You're valuation are completely off. This would be a terrible, terrible deal for the Wild.

Setoguchi for Gaborik is all I would do at this point. And I an not sure I would do that if Setoguchi develops any chemistry with Granlund.

Gaborik is past his prime, and he is basically a 2nd line carry at this point in his career, not a 1st liner. He has always been a solo player, having a hard time developing chemistry with anybody. There is a strong argument that he plays his best hockey with a so-so set-up man center and an energy guy who is willing to dig pucks out of corners for him.

Which is why the Nash pick-up was so fantastic for the Rangers. Nash-Richard-Kreider for a first line. Gaborik on the 2nd.
If you don't like that trade proposal, that's your prerogative. But you can't be serious about this part.

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11-23-2012, 07:06 PM
  #86
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Who will realistically have raises on the Rangers. Right now, they are middle of the pack in the NHL with 10 mil in cap space while needing to re-sign MDZ for only this year. I am going to assume the cap goes up in 3 years and the Rangers will retain their players if needed. Team is set up fairly well in the future regarding the salary cap.

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11-23-2012, 07:19 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
IMO,

1. Gaborik won't be traded. They will try to renegotiate contracts down next round and ask him to take a little less, which some of them may do to a nominal degree to stay here.

2. That means someone like Girardi and his 4.25ish m who is highly valued, but arguably not as indispensable as a 30g scorer w/40ish potential is more likely to be moved.

EVEN MORE LIKELY THAN MOVING (actual) GIRARDI will be an effort to move 2 guys of lesser salary instead.

3. Rangers best bet in a scenario such as this trying to shed a big contract is to hang on a couple of years, then move Brad Richards instead of Gaborik (as long as he has the wheels and, more importantly, the shot).

4. If Gaborik were to waive NMC, depending upon when, Rangers would receive mid + late 1st value + for him, no higher ---- unless Rangers add, then maybe higher pick could happen, especially if the trading partner had a surplus of picks.
Disregarding some of the points you made, Girardi makes 3.325. We're not going to find a top pairing defender for under that. And we have no other dead weight to move. Staal for 3.975? Callahan for 4.275? Besides Hank and our big three, they're the only ones currently making above 2 mil and none warrant a move.

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11-23-2012, 07:24 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Who will realistically have raises on the Rangers. Right now, they are middle of the pack in the NHL with 10 mil in cap space while needing to re-sign MDZ for only this year. I am going to assume the cap goes up in 3 years and the Rangers will retain their players if needed. Team is set up fairly well in the future regarding the salary cap.
McDonagh will need a 4.5ish long term contract. Stepan warrants either the Cally/Dubi/Artie path with a 2-2.5 bridge contract or a 3.5-3.75 longer term. Hagelin I have no idea at this point. He could very easily take up as much cap space as Stepan depending on whether we have a season and how well he does.

We're going to be at 61-62 with MDZ signed. I really am not sure how we sign these three players without Gabby getting traded barring a 70 mil cap. Rupp would be a viable candidate to move, too if we only need a little space.

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11-23-2012, 07:58 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangerboy030 View Post


Gabby had shoulder surgery in June, it is November now; almost December.

How many months is that?
So he's fully healed now. Great. That doesn't change the fact that he suffered a significant injury when the stakes were highest. Even if he won't miss games this season because of the lockout, claiming that he's been an iron man for the Rangers just isn't accurate.

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11-23-2012, 08:18 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
Gaborik is past his prime, and he is basically a 2nd line carry at this point in his career, not a 1st liner. He has always been a solo player, having a hard time developing chemistry with anybody. There is a strong argument that he plays his best hockey with a so-so set-up man center and an energy guy who is willing to dig pucks out of corners for him.

Which is why the Nash pick-up was so fantastic for the Rangers. Nash-Richard-Kreider for a first line. Gaborik on the 2nd.
gaborik is better than every single player in your entire organization and likely the best player your team will ever have possessed. gabs is arguably the best pure offensive right winger in the entire league. as for the nash comment...the pick up was so good because now we have 2 legitimate 1st lines:

nash-richards-cally
kreider-stepan-gaborik

either one of those lines would be a top line just about any team other

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11-23-2012, 08:21 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
So he's fully healed now. Great. That doesn't change the fact that he suffered a significant injury when the stakes were highest. Even if he won't miss games this season because of the lockout, claiming that he's been an iron man for the Rangers just isn't accurate.
he played three long series against three gritty teams (one of them being a rival) with one arm. the guy still averaged .5 PPG. i honestly believe no other player on our team (possibly no other in the league) would have toughed it out like gaborik did and even if they did they would not have played as well as he did. gabs has played more games than ryan ****ing callahan in the past 3 years how the hell has he not been an iron man for us

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11-23-2012, 08:31 PM
  #92
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IF he is moved, I think a return of a young forward with top 6 potential, a good young prospect, and a late first or second would be the going rate.

I'd look to Phoenix for something like Boedker, Gormley, 2nd for Gaborik.

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11-23-2012, 09:14 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
If the Rangers trade Gaborik, it's because they can't carry his 7.5 million dollar deal and/or his production dipped below the point where they can justify keeping him around at that price point due to injuries or otherwise. Neither one of those things screams "full value."

Also, Brent Burns is a poor comparable because Burns was younger at the time of the deal, plays a more important position and San Jose could name their own price.

And the biggest difference between Phoenix and Minny is that Phoenix is actually a good team. If the Rags asked Gabby to waive his NTC, you'd have to think he'd look long and hard about a squad that's at most a year removed from their Conference Finals with a clear spot for him in the lineup, regardless of where they were located.
And Minnesota isn't? Neither of them are true Stanley Cup contenders. Phoenix's run was a fluke, if LA won a couple more games they'd have been eliminated in the first round. Minnesota at least is geared towards the future with a great prospect pool. And it would be kind of a homecoming for him. Parise>Nash/Kreider and Koivu=Richards/Stepan, so he'd have a somewhat better line. By then, Cullen will be off the books, so we would hopefully have the cap space.

The likelihood of the Yotes moving is close to zero. Bettman likes his warm weather teams.

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11-23-2012, 09:23 PM
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And Minnesota isn't? Neither of them are true Stanley Cup contenders. Phoenix's run was a fluke, if LA won a couple more games they'd have been eliminated in the first round. Minnesota at least is geared towards the future with a great prospect pool. And it would be kind of a homecoming for him. Parise>Nash/Kreider and Koivu=Richards/Stepan, so he'd have a somewhat better line. By then, Cullen will be off the books, so we would hopefully have the cap space.

The likelihood of the Yotes moving is close to zero. Bettman likes his warm weather teams.
you seem to forget that gabs ran away at the first chance he could....why on earth would he want to go back. second yea parise>nash/kreider (individually) but we are paying less for both of them and parise<nash AND kreider. stepan could easily become just as good as koivu and richards is BETTER than koivu. gaborik would not have a better line by any means on minnesota. and even if he did somehow actually have a better line, gabs still has a better shot at a cup here than he does anywhere else

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11-23-2012, 11:02 PM
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Gaborik is not as good as he was. He's still good but he is doesn't carry a team like he used to and he has slowed down if you can believe. Factor in that he is negated in playoffs and pressure situations.

Now that he is coking back from another major surgery and ask yourself if gaborik is a reliable 1st liner on a contending team. Maybe but probably not.

At this point he fits better as second line anchor who is the second scoring threat for the rangers. Honest ranger fans would agree.

I have no gaborik or ranger bate but I am wise enough to not put playoff clutch reliance in gaborik.

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11-23-2012, 11:39 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
Gaborik is not as good as he was. He's still good but he is doesn't carry a team like he used to and he has slowed down if you can believe.
he is better than he was. he has a career high in points, tied his career high in goals, broken 40 goals twice in three seasons, 100 goals in 3 seasons, and achieved career milestones all as a ranger (300 goals). just do the math, you had him for 8 seasons and he had 219 goals and 218 assists. in the last 3 years he has picked up that pace tremendously. 105 goals and 105 assists over his last three years. hes getting better and better.

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Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
Factor in that he is negated in playoffs and pressure situations.rik.
THE DUDE WAS PLAYING WITH ONE ****ING ARM AND WAS STILL THE 2ND HIGHEST SCORING FORWARD ON A CONFERENCE FINAL TEAM WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
Now that he is coking back from another major surgery and ask yourself if gaborik is a reliable 1st liner on a contending team. Maybe but probably not. At this point he fits better as second line anchor who is the second scoring threat for the rangers. Honest ranger fans would agree.
3rd in goals 15th in points.....i really dont know what more you could want from him. hes not gonna win an art ross or a richard with the competition he has but to say he isnt a 1st liner please. are you suggesting ovechkin is a 2nd liner? how about kopitar, st louis, eric staal, parise, iginla, d sedin, ben, ryder, perry, nash, vanek, or allfie are all 2nd liners? gaborik had more goals and points than all of them. a ton of "honest ranger fans" hate gaborik and would rather see avery there instead. you see them throw gaborik in every trade proposal. in reality gaborik is hands down the best forward that we have until someone else on our team can prove themselves of taking over that title. of the past 3 year the NYR have had 2 players as our highest point scorer. gaborik has 2 years with that title and of the two players who achieved it he is the only one still on the team
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Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
I have no gaborik or ranger bate but I am wise enough to not put playoff clutch reliance in gaborik.
you clearly do have some gaborik hate or you have not seen him at all in the past 3 years. not clutch in the playoffs? how many active players have ended a 3OT game?

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11-23-2012, 11:53 PM
  #97
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To say Gaborik has slowed down a step or two is true, though. He's also lost some of his laser quick wrister, too.

Having said that, he's evolved into a different player - one that can still be nearly as effective despite aging. He's learned to score in other ways, so I'm not worried.

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11-23-2012, 11:55 PM
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To say Gaborik has slowed down a step or two is true, though. He's also lost some of his laser quick wrister, too.

Having said that, he's evolved into a different player - one that can still be nearly as effective despite aging. He's learned to score in other ways, so I'm not worried.
lost a step or slowed down maybe, but i would argue that he has become a better overall player

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11-24-2012, 12:05 AM
  #99
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#15 1st rounder from a playoff team like Washington would be good imo. Filled with lots of good players in this draft.

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11-24-2012, 12:09 AM
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if all we would be getting is a mid to late 1st i would rather keep him for another year. we are in position for a cup run it makes no sense to trade our best forward for draft picks.

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