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Phoenix LXV: The word is... give me a minute.... "Omnishambles"... "Omnishambles"

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11-26-2012, 07:12 PM
  #201
aqib
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Originally Posted by Scoobs View Post
I've stayed out of this thread since the lockout started, but it's safe to assume that absolutely nothing of substance either way has happened and we're exactly where we stood in May when Jamison was announced as saviour?
Yes. Where it stands now is that there is a council vote in Glendale tomorrow on a lease/fee agreement to keep the team in Glendale. There are 3 who will vote for it. 2 will vote against it. 1 we don't know. If that undecided vote goes no, then its over since the new council we know will support this deal. If its a yes then what happens is:

1) the deal has to close before a new council and mayor take over in January.

2) expect the same people who lead he charge for the sales tax repeal to join Ken Jones to overturn the lease.

3) If they sign the lease Goldwater has grounds to sue.

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11-26-2012, 07:44 PM
  #202
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OK.....could GJ sign the lease, then not buy the team and simply pay the penalties associated for not having 40 NHL games and 30 other events?

In which case he ends up ahead, or does the lease specifically require an NHL hockey team in the building to make the lease complete? What if it was AHL hockey for 40 games?

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11-26-2012, 08:02 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by davemac1313 View Post
OK.....could GJ sign the lease, then not buy the team and simply pay the penalties associated for not having 40 NHL games and 30 other events?

In which case he ends up ahead, or does the lease specifically require an NHL hockey team in the building to make the lease complete? What if it was AHL hockey for 40 games?
Unless they changed that part Jamison cannot sign the lease until after he purchased the team. Exactly to prevent that kind of bait and switch.

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11-26-2012, 08:38 PM
  #204
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They have done it once, who is to say they won't again?

I know what "net present value" is, the thing is that $300M is still $300M no matter what way you look at it. Hell $1 could be worth $500 in the year 2032, that doesn't change that its only worth $1.

I'm not sure you understand clearly. The deal used to be $95M in the first 5 years, now it's $71M it doesn't take a genius to conclude that the additional $24M will be paid out over the remaining 15 years of the 20 year lease.

That's my point. They can have all the school graduations they want, it still doesn't count. But that is entirely besides the argument as Jamison is laughing either way, he books an event, makes money off it. He doesn't book events he pays a very small fine. He's still collecting annually regardless how you look at it.

Umm yes. 30 x $25,000 = $750,000 my point was Jamison doesn't need to book anything, just deduct $750,000 from his annual subsid.... err AMF. That's it, he's laughing otherwise!

Revenues?!?! The team hasn't turned a profit in 15 years, how are they magically going to start earning money. Plus the City is still on the hook for the bond repayment regardless what happens.

It's pretty clear to anyone (besides Clark) that this is a direct subsidy regardless how you or anyone else sugar coats it. The fact remains the CoG shot themselves in the foot when the $6M Management Fee was released, anything over and above is nothing more than a subsidy.

Jamison can easily book the 40 hockey nights and call it a day, he's still pocketing over $14M / season while collecting ticket revenue, merchandise sales revenue, parking revenue, etc. Jamison would break even annually without lifting a finger.

*EDIT* Mesa can I pay you to attend tomorrow's meeting to speak about the absurdity of this deal? Just make sure you shout out to HF Boards
Oh how i would enjoy this meeting of skulls full of mush! Unfortunately my winter appearance in Scottsdale comes late next month (MOD). GB and BD are no-shows proving yet again how disingenuous they have been all along. GJ has far better things to do than to show his straw man face in front of the very folks he purports to want to steal money from. In the end, if these folks vote yes the buckets of black tar and nude chickens will appear in the streets of Glendale! The town hall Christmas ornaments will be the idiots who claim to have the best interests of the the taxpayers of Glendale in their hearts! Time to go Scruggsy and Clark, don`t let the door hit you in the arse on the way out!


Last edited by Killion: 11-26-2012 at 09:04 PM. Reason: ... oye vey.
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11-26-2012, 10:58 PM
  #205
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What time is this adventure starting tomorrow?

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11-26-2012, 11:55 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by habsinottawa View Post
What time is this adventure starting tomorrow?
Adventure Time!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa0EjZxTFqk

But seriously here's a link with a timer:

http://www.azcentral.com/live/?event...e-coyotes-deal

7 PM EST if my math is correct.


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11-27-2012, 12:07 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
Adventure Time!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa0EjZxTFqk

But seriously here's a link with a timer:

http://www.azcentral.com/live/?event...e-coyotes-deal

7 PM EST if my math is correct.
Its 7PM Local time so that would be 9PM EST since AZ is 2 hours behind this time of year.

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11-27-2012, 12:17 AM
  #208
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Does anyone know what the final election results were? They aren't easy to find on the county recorders site. Also its interesting that they have the vote on the new council member AFTER the vote on the lease. Reading Clark's Twitter feed tonight, apparently the council will vote one-by-one with Knaack votes last. That will be the moment that could (and I say could because a yes vote doesn't end it) decide this thing


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11-27-2012, 03:41 AM
  #209
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Does anyone know what the final election results were? They aren't easy to find on the county recorders site. Also its interesting that they have the vote on the new council member AFTER the vote on the lease. Reading Clark's Twitter feed tonight, apparently the council will vote one-by-one with Knaack votes last. That will be the moment that could (and I say could because a yes vote doesn't end it) decide this thing
It really doesn't matter if they fill the Cactus District seat before or after the AMF vote. Phil's replacement is not in favor of the AMF so it's essentially a wash.

The AMF is going to need four votes to pass.... period.

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11-27-2012, 06:31 AM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmidd12 View Post
I know what "net present value" is, the thing is that $300M is still $300M no matter what way you look at it. Hell $1 could be worth $500 in the year 2032, that doesn't change that its only worth $1.
Your original comment was in response to this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by COG financial wizards
3. The city pays an average arena management fee of $15 million per year which was net present valued at $188.3 million using a 6.5% discount rate.
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Originally Posted by ajmidd12 View Post
#3 - Where did these numbers come from? There math is way off, $15M per year at 20 years isn't $188.3M, there is no way JIG agrees to this much of a discount.
It appears you don't understand present value at all.

You also seem to have confused earnings and revenue.

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11-27-2012, 07:18 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by davemac1313 View Post
OK.....could GJ sign the lease, then not buy the team and simply pay the penalties associated for not having 40 NHL games and 30 other events?

In which case he ends up ahead, or does the lease specifically require an NHL hockey team in the building to make the lease complete? What if it was AHL hockey for 40 games?
No, No, No (although it would be fun to let our imaginations un with this idea).... It's a simple matter in contract law to insert a clause to make one contract contingent on completing another contract in this case. The lease will have a clause that the team must be purchased by a certain deadline (2 weeks anyone) or the lease dies. The whole deal could be done the other way (which would IMO show more commitment to the endeavour) by having JIG purchase the team contingent on entering into a lease. This is really just a matter of which is the cart and which if the horse, but the optics would be better if the purchase contract were in place first.

Where many would have seen this form of legal "trick" (trick meaning clever manoeuvre) would be in a contract to purchase a house. A standard clause to put in the contract is that the sale is dependant on the purchaser obtaining a mortgage by a certain date, if the purchaser cannot fufill this then they can declare the deal void without penalty. This is the same thing.

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11-27-2012, 07:21 AM
  #212
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According to Clark's Twitter if there is a tie the motion fails:

Joyce Clark ‏@clarkjv

@KJ_Radke Doesn't matter. Vote will be either 3-3 and fail for lack of majority or 4-2 and pass. I have no idea which way vote will go.
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No ****, ain't democracy great....

Even Joyce Clark understands the basics of the system.

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11-27-2012, 07:26 AM
  #213
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Today will be interesting to watch, whichever way the vote goes.

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11-27-2012, 07:29 AM
  #214
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Today will be interesting to watch, whichever way the vote goes.
I haven't been following this much, what exactly going on if you don't mind me asking?

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11-27-2012, 07:55 AM
  #215
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I haven't been following this much, what exactly going on if you don't mind me asking?
Hopefully the last vote on the Coyotes deal between the COG and Jamison.

They have a revised AMF and need to vote on it, the lame duck council that is. Because the new guys coming January 1st...they don't wanna touch it with a stick.

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11-27-2012, 07:59 AM
  #216
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Hopefully the last vote on the Coyotes deal between the COG and Jamison.

They have a revised AMF and need to vote on it, the lame duck council that is. Because the new guys coming January 1st...they don't wanna touch it with a stick.
Oh Please, we all know it can't be that easy, at least two more weeks are required.

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11-27-2012, 08:11 AM
  #217
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My guess vote will pass. Then we're on for another 2 fortnights of crazy Glendale mayhem. Starting with a petition for a referendum on the lease. Followed by a motion to make the petition void. Then a judge will see if it is indeed legal or not. Then the referendum. Then the new council gets sworn in. Takes another fortnight to looks things over. Then the NHL and NHLPA gets an agreement. Then it's too late to relocate. Another urgency deal is made. By the time everything gets sorted out, Glendale is voting on giving another bunch of M$ (just less than the previous council would have given but still probably too much for what the Coyotes bring in revenues for the coG) and the Coyotes get to live another year in the desert.

When the summer comes, the Coyotes will still be in Glendale. They might even play 2013-14 in the desert as well. This is the never ending story, a bottomless pit of entertainment.


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11-27-2012, 08:40 AM
  #218
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Today will be interesting to watch, whichever way the vote goes.
Definitely. I think these are the votes we already know.

Joyce Clark - YES
Steve Frate - YES
Manny Martinez - YES

Elaine Scruggs - NO
Norma Alvarez - NO

Yvonne Knaack - ??

How would you like to be Yvonne Knaack today? You are the swing vote on potentially the biggest vote ( financially ) the CoG has undertaken.

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11-27-2012, 08:56 AM
  #219
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Knaack votes yes and this mess drags on for at least another eight months. She votes no and there is no possible way the City of Glendale kicks in anywhere near the amount being discussed in the Jamison deal. A no vote means that the only way JIG closes on the Coyotes is if a lot of money is made up elsewhere. The Coyotes' hopes in Glendale will rely on a secret sale price reduction, or payment deferral and/or vastly increased revenue sharing allowance in the new cba.

Right?

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11-27-2012, 09:09 AM
  #220
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Knaack votes yes and this mess drags on for at least another eight months. She votes no and there is no possible way the City of Glendale kicks in anywhere near the amount being discussed in the Jamison deal. A no vote means that the only way JIG closes on the Coyotes is if a lot of money is made up elsewhere. The Coyotes' hopes in Glendale will rely on a secret sale price reduction, or payment deferral and/or vastly increased revenue sharing allowance in the new cba.

Right?
I think it dies on a no/tie vote, this whole JIG deal smells like an NHL shakedown in order to be made whole on what they put out to buy the team out of BK. IMO if they couldn't extract the cash from a buyer (IEH, Reinsdorf, Hulzi), who were trying to extract cash from the rubes on council, they decided to give it a go with their own frontman in Jamison. If JIG doesn't get the egg management fee the NHL will in fairly short order pull an Eric Cartman and say screw you guys I'm going home since they could be made whole on a relocation.

Just my opinion, but that's where I think we are based on the way the new council is shaping up. It's high noon at the ok corral.

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11-27-2012, 09:23 AM
  #221
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I think it dies on a no/tie vote, this whole JIG deal smells like an NHL shakedown in order to be made whole on what they put out to buy the team out of BK. IMO if they couldn't extract the cash from a buyer (IEH, Reinsdorf, Hulzi), who were trying to extract cash from the rubes on council, they decided to give it a go with their own frontman in Jamison. If JIG doesn't get the egg management fee the NHL will in fairly short order pull an Eric Cartman and say screw you guys I'm going home since they could be made whole on a relocation.

Just my opinion, but that's where I think we are based on the way the new council is shaping up. It's high noon at the ok corral.
So will there a hearing, discussion, arguments, etc? Will JIG have a chance to face his new benefactors and explain that he has invisible investors lined up and is ready to fund the sale once there is NHL hockey again? I'm assuming that JIG will not show regardless of the opportunity, but it would be much more fun if he could stand before the board, hat in hand, and not provide any substantive answers about the deal.

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11-27-2012, 09:27 AM
  #222
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Definitely. I think these are the votes we already know.

Joyce Clark - YES
Steve Frate - YES
Manny Martinez - YES

Elaine Scruggs - NO
Norma Alvarez - NO

Yvonne Knaack - ??

How would you like to be Yvonne Knaack today? You are the swing vote on potentially the biggest vote ( financially ) the CoG has undertaken.
Not too mention the Knaack is facing possible recall which could come to fruition should she vote Yes.

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11-27-2012, 09:29 AM
  #223
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Knaack votes yes and this mess drags on for at least another eight months. She votes no and there is no possible way the City of Glendale kicks in anywhere near the amount being discussed in the Jamison deal. A no vote means that the only way JIG closes on the Coyotes is if a lot of money is made up elsewhere. The Coyotes' hopes in Glendale will rely on a secret sale price reduction, or payment deferral and/or vastly increased revenue sharing allowance in the new cba.

Right?
I would have to agree with your assessment except for it will drag on for eight + months regardless of a yes or no vote.

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11-27-2012, 09:36 AM
  #224
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I would have to agree with your assessment except for it will drag on for eight + months regardless of a yes or no vote.
I agree with this. I think even a no vote will cause disruption somewhere, and who knows what other things Clark and co take before going into the sunset.

I've got a gut feeling knaack is going to vote yes-though with the whole recall thing she might surprise us, from what I understand at the last meeting she was leaning that way.

So, either Knaack votes no-possibly agains what she feels is best interest (in her eyes)
Or she votes yes, and if dragged in recall will claim the "unpopular but correct choice". Not to mention the Knaack recall with simply give more ammo to the incoming council to overturn the deal, probably saying a candidate facing recall should not have such an important voice at this time .

Over all my gut says this gets a yes vote, and then it will start the process of "hi ho, hi ho, it's off court we go...."

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11-27-2012, 09:39 AM
  #225
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This whole saga will drag until January 2013, then it will end and the Coyotes will be done in the desert...

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