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The Luongo Thread: Another Brick in the Wall Edition

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Old
11-29-2012, 12:22 AM
  #326
kurt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
The only trade on here that is close to Shnieds is Maybe Halak, Maybe Varlomov. Halak had only one decent season and one good playoffs, and that trade, was considered terrible by hockey people, as he was not shopped, just shipped off.

Varlomov would be close except most think much more of Shnieds then Varlomov.

The rest were traded at much earlier points in their career. Hell had Ben Bishop played more than a handful of games?

As for Lui, realistically the last time a goalie of his ilk was traded was him, and he was 27 then.
I never said they were exact, but there are very few goaltender trades period, and even fewer trades involving goaltenders that don't have goaltenders coming back the other way.

I don't know if Schneider has the resume to put himself head and shoulders above Halak/Lindback/Varlamov/Lehtonen though. Sure, his value is higher. But how much higher?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Giguere was coming off a season with a 0.900 save percentage (and had the same save percentage during the season he was traded). Vokoun was a pending free agent so the Pens only had to give up a 7th to get the rights to talk to him for a short period before he actually hit free agency.
Like I said, with Luongo there's even less to go on. Schneider was coming off a bad season, sure. But he also had a better resume. And I'm still not sure if his contract makes him more or less appealing as a trade piece, but at this point I presume it reduces his trade value.

You're right about Vokoun. I originally had Bryz listed too but deleted him for that same reason. I meant to delete Vokoun as well but forgot.

Long story short, I have as strong feeling Canucks fans will be underwhelmed by the return if a goaltender is moved. Especially if they're looking for pieces to help immediately that don't have bad contracts. There's just no precedent to suggest that.

But who knows, time will tell.

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Old
11-29-2012, 12:26 AM
  #327
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Giguere garnered a 50s-60s point player+ after a decidedly mediocre season.

So for Luongo that should be Lupul++.

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11-29-2012, 12:33 AM
  #328
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Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
Sad news about Josh Harding.

The Wolves and Icedogs (Hawks affiliate) played tonight. There were 45 scouts representing 20 different teams there tonight. Many GM's including Bob Murray (ANA). That's a LOT of scouts, somethings cookin in the kitchen --- Luongo?

I always thought ANA was perhaps the mystery team in for Luongo.
Agree Anahiem could be the mystery team. They have had time to figure out Hiller's symptoms and might have gotten bad news.

Toronto board seems to think Thomas is coming. That might make Boston a player, too.

I think Philadelphia is the best fit, if they can rid themselves of Bryzgalov.

TB hasn't convinced me they have a starter. NJ, either.

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Old
11-29-2012, 12:39 AM
  #329
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I would bet everything I own that Luongo will not end up in Boston.

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Old
11-29-2012, 12:59 AM
  #330
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Luongo to ANA and Hiller to NYI? It may work if the amnesty clause is allowed. ANA and NYI have a good trade history with each other and New York could use a goalie like Hiller.

I'm thinking something like:


Roberto Luongo
Chris Higgins
Nicklas Jensen
2013 1st round pick


Bobby Ryan
Rickard Rakell


Frans Nielsen
Matt Martin
mid-round pick


Jonas Hiller


I don't know I don't watch much Isles hockey just split-balling here if Anaheim was the mystery team.

I couldn't tell you how Anaheim or New York would look, but roughly we'd look like:

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Ryan
Raymond-Malhotra-Hansen
Weise-Lapierre-Kassian

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Old
11-29-2012, 01:05 AM
  #331
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To Vancouver: Perry
To Anaheim: Grabovski, Luongo
To Toronto: Hiller


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11-29-2012, 01:11 AM
  #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
To Vancouver: Perry
To Anaheim: Grabovski, Luongo
To Toronto: Hiller

I'd imagine we'd have to throw something else in but as a basis I love this! It also fills a hole in C that the Ducks have be needing for the 2nd line since they traded away Andy Mac.

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Old
11-29-2012, 01:12 AM
  #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
To Vancouver: Perry
To Anaheim: Grabovski, Luongo
To Toronto: Hiller

I'd do it. My only hold-up would be the chance Perry does not re-sign.

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11-29-2012, 01:17 AM
  #334
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I am not sure why scouts would be attending that game in partiuclar other than it is extremely easy to get to Chicago. Saad and Kassian are the only blue chip prospects in that game.
Ya, it's a mystery to me. That's a LOT of scouts & GMs

Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniorNelson View Post
Agree Anahiem could be the mystery team. They have had time to figure out Hiller's symptoms and might have gotten bad news.

Toronto board seems to think Thomas is coming. That might make Boston a player, too.

I think Philadelphia is the best fit, if they can rid themselves of Bryzgalov.

TB hasn't convinced me they have a starter. NJ, either.
GM Marc Bergevin (Habs) was also in attendance at game.

Leafs fans think Thomas is coming? Lol. The "I took a yr off" Thomas? I think they're losing it. Bos has Rask either way, doubt they're looking for a goalie.

I also think Philly could be a player if amnesty was put on the table.

I think either ANA, OTT or WAS is the mystery team. All 3 have goalies who don't have NTC, so they could be flipped for assets.

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Old
11-29-2012, 01:22 AM
  #335
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@Sunshine Rays

Yeah, I've maintained the position that Ottawa could be a player in the Luongo sweepstakes and was fairly certain it was them before Nash was traded. If they package Lehner up with another prospect and roster player, they could get a very good roster player in return and then trade another roster player(s) for Luongo.

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11-29-2012, 07:23 AM
  #336
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Anaheim is in a rebuild, especially if Getzlaf and/or Perry were to walk. They have no use for Luongo but plenty for Schneider.

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11-29-2012, 08:20 AM
  #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
To Vancouver: Perry
To Anaheim: Grabovski, Luongo
To Toronto: Hiller

Would only happen if Perry explicit says he doesn't want to re-sign in Anaheim, and if he was planning to extend with Vancouver.

Anaheim probably needs more than that, probably a few draft picks from both TOR and us.

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Old
11-29-2012, 08:44 AM
  #338
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Originally Posted by kurt View Post
I never said they were exact, but there are very few goaltender trades period, and even fewer trades involving goaltenders that don't have goaltenders coming back the other way.

I don't know if Schneider has the resume to put himself head and shoulders above Halak/Lindback/Varlamov/Lehtonen though. Sure, his value is higher. But how much higher?
It was known to be higher than Varlomov last season when Varly was traded. Varly got the most out of the goalies you mentioned, and all Shnieds has done is put up godly numbers since.

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11-29-2012, 09:28 AM
  #339
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Originally Posted by Wilch View Post
Would only happen if Perry explicit says he doesn't want to re-sign in Anaheim, and if he was planning to extend with Vancouver.

Anaheim probably needs more than that, probably a few draft picks from both TOR and us.
I doubt TO is giving Grabovski plus for Hiller.

My advice, if you want to work a deal for Luongo with Anahiem....leave TO out of it. Burke may be interested in Hiller, but he'd probably prefer negotiating his own deal. Just like Van/FLA, TO/ANA have some trading history.


Last edited by Liferleafer: 11-29-2012 at 09:42 AM.
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Old
11-29-2012, 10:34 AM
  #340
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I doubt TO is giving Grabovski plus for Hiller.
Is Hiller really the same since being "vertigo free"? Despite being in the west, I didn't really follow the Ducks this past season.

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Old
11-29-2012, 11:03 AM
  #341
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Is Hiller really the same since being "vertigo free"? Despite being in the west, I didn't really follow the Ducks this past season.
I don't know alot about him...Burke might. If i was willing to deal Grabovski plus for a goalie, Hiller would not be my choice.

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11-29-2012, 11:15 AM
  #342
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Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
Ya, it's a mystery to me. That's a LOT of scouts & GMs



GM Marc Bergevin (Habs) was also in attendance at game.

Leafs fans think Thomas is coming? Lol. The "I took a yr off" Thomas? I think they're losing it. Bos has Rask either way, doubt they're looking for a goalie.

I also think Philly could be a player if amnesty was put on the table.

I think either ANA, OTT or WAS is the mystery team. All 3 have goalies who don't have NTC, so they could be flipped for assets.
I have a feeling Gillis has notified the rest of the league that he's willing to move Schneider if the right deal came along. If the provisions in the CBA being proposed go through and they penalize legacy cap circumventing contracts (like Lou's) I can see Gillis turning the page and dealing Schneider. At the very least he must put it out there to pressure teams like Toronto to put their best offer forward for Lou.

Unlike Lou, there is a bigger market for Schneider as he'd upgrade more than half the teams in net on a shorter contract, is 7 years younger and is close to Lou in ability at this point. Unlike a Lou trade, we could find a fit that would fill holes on the team. Where does that leave Toronto? Out in the cold IMO. They don't have the assets to get Schneider from Vancouver.

Gillis was more than prepared to see out that contract when he offered it. I have no doubt he'd still be willing to do so, if only ownership supported moving Schneider.

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Old
11-29-2012, 12:02 PM
  #343
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I have a feeling Gillis has notified the rest of the league that he's willing to move Schneider if the right deal came along. If the provisions in the CBA being proposed go through and they penalize legacy cap circumventing contracts (like Lou's) I can see Gillis turning the page and dealing Schneider. At the very least he must put it out there to pressure teams like Toronto to put their best offer forward for Lou.

Unlike Lou, there is a bigger market for Schneider as he'd upgrade more than half the teams in net on a shorter contract, is 7 years younger and is close to Lou in ability at this point. Unlike a Lou trade, we could find a fit that would fill holes on the team. Where does that leave Toronto? Out in the cold IMO. They don't have the assets to get Schneider from Vancouver.

Gillis was more than prepared to see out that contract when he offered it. I have no doubt he'd still be willing to do so, if only ownership supported moving Schneider.
Can't argue this. Would amaze me if Gillis deals Schnieder though. Guess that says alot about what kind of offers he's getting for Luongo.

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11-29-2012, 12:36 PM
  #344
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The Leafs don't have the assets to get Luongo out of Vancouver technically, except we are looking to move him and given his contract it's tough to find many buyers so Gillis automatically has to settle for less value than what Luongo brings to a team. That's not saying we should or will dump him on Toronto for crap that Leaf fans are proposing, that's just saying we would look at a Luongo/Lupul trade.

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11-29-2012, 12:37 PM
  #345
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Can't argue this. Would amaze me if Gillis deals Schnieder though. Guess that says alot about what kind of offers he's getting for Luongo.
Bottom line...he has to decide which move makes his team better in the short and long run.The only way to get the best possible offer for Luongo is to potentially take him off the table by pursuing a deal for Schneider.

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Old
11-29-2012, 01:06 PM
  #346
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Bottom line...he has to decide which move makes his team better in the short and long run.The only way to get the best possible offer for Luongo is to potentially take him off the table by pursuing a deal for Schneider.
Not sure how putting Schnieder up instead of Luongo is going to increase Luongo offers. Most of the teams mildly interested in Luongo would be much more interested in Schnieder.

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11-29-2012, 01:12 PM
  #347
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that's just saying I would look at a Luongo/Lupul trade.
Fixed that for you.

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11-29-2012, 01:15 PM
  #348
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Fixed that for you.
Right, my bad. You might look for a worse deal, but I still maintain we should get back an impact player. Not some young prospect who AV, based on what we've seen in the past, would bury.

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11-29-2012, 01:17 PM
  #349
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Not sure how putting Schnieder up instead of Luongo is going to increase Luongo offers. Most of the teams mildly interested in Luongo would be much more interested in Schnieder.
I am sure they would be but, like I said, Toronto in particular does not have the assets for Schneider. Same for Tampa if they were a potential bidder for Lou, or Edmonton if they would not pony up a Yakupov in a Schneider package. I also don't think Florida is a great fit for Schneider. The only teams that could credibly bid on both are Edmonton and Washington and maybe Chicago.

The point of putting them both on the block is to get the best possible combination of assets to help the team now and in the future.

I have not seen a single Luongo package that makes Vancouver close to as good as they were last year. A Luongo deal is only going to result in futures and maybe one depth player. That's a major step back for a team that was a contender. Trading Schneider could garner a signficant asset that helps this year (if there is one)

So while Toronto may be bidding in relative isolation for Lou, they would be bidding indirectly against what other teams would pay for Schneider. Makes sense no?

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11-29-2012, 01:27 PM
  #350
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Right, my bad. You might look for a worse deal, but I still maintain we should get back an impact player. Not some young prospect who AV, based on what we've seen in the past, would bury.
Gillis already brought in Booth as a pet project, I don't think we need another 4m+ winger that needs his game overhauled. If we're going to take on a project, I'd rather that be a young, cheap player.

If you look at AV's history, he doesn't discriminate young and old. Lupul would have the same problem as any young guy would here, if you don't play both ways, you aren't going to play.

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