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The Luongo Thread: Another Brick in the Wall Edition

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11-29-2012, 03:17 PM
  #376
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The point I've made over and over, is that a crap return for Lou vs an amazing return for Schneider should have only one conclusion.
That makes sense if you bury your head in the sand and ignore what Lu said, I refuse to do that.

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11-29-2012, 03:21 PM
  #377
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That makes sense if you bury your head in the sand and ignore what Lu said, I refuse to do that.
Lu does not call the shots. He has a contract. I don't need to bury my head in the sand to state that case.

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11-29-2012, 03:23 PM
  #378
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Agreed. That's true for every team. Tampa made a pretty strong statement that they were not willing to make that kind of a commit and went a different direction. Burke may be forced to do the same and look elsewhere.
Exactly...where i don't know, but it may have to come to that. I don't see a Reimer/Scrivens tandem, probably a Reimer/???? (vet backup).

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11-29-2012, 03:27 PM
  #379
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Exactly...where i don't know, but it may have to come to that. I don't see a Reimer/Scrivens tandem, probably a Reimer/???? (vet backup).
He'd do well to consider Ellis. That's not going to solve the problem but at least push it down the road a year a hope that a new goalie coach can do better with Reimer. His problems last year did not look like a player overcoming injury...it looked more like a goalie that does not have the basic fundamentals down. The wrong coach can do a ton of damage, and maybe that's what happened there.

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11-29-2012, 03:27 PM
  #380
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Lu does not call the shots.
Part of our recent success imo has been Gillis bringing in the right personalities and people that want to be here. Building a team isn't about throwing the most talented group of players together, there is more to it than that.

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11-29-2012, 03:29 PM
  #381
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Part of our recent success imo has been Gillis bringing in the right personalities and people that want to be here. Building a team isn't about throwing the most talented group of players together, there is more to it than that.
And Lu has obviously been central to that. What's your point?

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11-29-2012, 03:36 PM
  #382
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And Lu has obviously been central to that. What's your point?
"It's time to move on" put the team in a tough position and speaks to how much Lu wants to be here. I think we should all take his advice.

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11-29-2012, 03:38 PM
  #383
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He'd do well to consider Ellis. That's not going to solve the problem but at least push it down the road a year a hope that a new goalie coach can do better with Reimer. His problems last year did not look like a player overcoming injury...it looked more like a goalie that does not have the basic fundamentals down. The wrong coach can do a ton of damage, and maybe that's what happened there.
I was really hoping for a Vokoun type vet....help Reimer along, start 25-35 if need be. If we are looking to go youth, Bernier is a thought, but we might as well stick with Reimer then. I still like a Thomas pickup if he wants to play, especially if it's a shortened season.

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11-29-2012, 03:45 PM
  #384
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"It's time to move on" put the team in a tough position and speaks to how much Lu wants to be here. I think we should all take his advice.
You think this is a tough position.

How tough would it be if we trade Luongo then Schneider can't actually handle the load as a starter at the NHL level. Maybe people realize he can be beat high short-side and start taking advantage of it regularly.

What kind of probability do you give on Schneider not being able to maintain his level of play as a starter?

NOTE: I think this has to be stated, I am a Canucks fan and hope Schneider puts up a .980 save% as a starter this year, I just think we need to consider that his standard of play may drop with a starters load or for a variety of other factors.

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11-29-2012, 03:54 PM
  #385
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Who cares....he signed an extension here while Lou is still employed here. Given Gillis' public stance that he is willing to bring them both back, neither Lou nor Schneider are going to be calling the shots.
Who cares? Well as a fan of this team I surely do! I would also hope that you do as well as this is a huge trade for our team.

My point ultimately being that he just wanted to be a starter after years of being groomed to be one. I'd have to imagine his choice has always been to stay but at 26 if he can't be the starter here then being the #1 "somewhere" is the only other option.

I don't know if Luongo's number 1 priority is to be here or not but he has stated he thinks its time to move on. If that thought is in his head now who is to say if we keep him that this isn't an issue in 2-3 years?

I want a guy that is committed to this team & city to be here in the end.

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11-29-2012, 04:00 PM
  #386
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Who cares? Well as a fan of this team I surely do! I would also hope that you do as well as this is a huge trade for our team.

My point ultimately being that he just wanted to be a starter after years of being groomed to be one. I'd have to imagine his choice has always been to stay but at 26 if he can't be the starter here then being the #1 "somewhere" is the only other option.

I don't know if Luongo's number 1 priority is to be here or not but he has stated he thinks its time to move on. If that thought is in his head now who is to say if we keep him that this isn't an issue in 2-3 years?

I want a guy that is committed to this team & city to be here in the end.
I would have said the same thing Lou did and we are bloody lucky he's even willing to do the noble thing and offer to waive his NTC. Lou's statement does not show a lack of commitment to the team or the city....it's a statement that Schneider is ready to lead this team, and if that's what the Canucks want he won't stand in their way. Like I said, we're lucky he thinks that way. It gives us the option, but not the obligation to move him. Yay us.

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11-29-2012, 04:02 PM
  #387
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I was really hoping for a Vokoun type vet....help Reimer along, start 25-35 if need be. If we are looking to go youth, Bernier is a thought, but we might as well stick with Reimer then. I still like a Thomas pickup if he wants to play, especially if it's a shortened season.
Vokoun would have been ideal. That was a curious one for sure. I'd love to know what the real story was there? Burke lacking interest or Vokoun. that seat was custom made for him. Maybe he was afraid of working with Allaire. :-)

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11-29-2012, 04:02 PM
  #388
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NOTE: I think this has to be stated, I am a Canucks fan and hope Schneider puts up a .980 save% as a starter this year, I just think we need to consider that his standard of play may drop with a starters load or for a variety of other factors.
Or maybe he plays even better when he doesn't have to sit on the bench for a month at a time? There is some risk involved, keeping Lu and trading Schneider would also be risky. Given the choice, I'll take the guy that wants to be here and says the right things.

You should also consider that Schneider will give us better goaltending, especially in the playoffs, than we've been getting. That's every bit as possible as him having a hard time as a starter given his pedigree and career thus far.

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11-29-2012, 05:16 PM
  #389
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While i fully admit the Leafs have issues in goal, there is still only a certain price they can afford to pay....it's really that simple.
I am not disagreeing with your understanding of the circumstance with Burke having a ceiling price. I am merely pointing out the Leafs will still be without a goalie. The consequence of which will (most predictably) be a non play-off season. Considering this, I think your evaluation of Burke's ceiling price is much higher than you perceive.

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11-29-2012, 05:33 PM
  #390
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Or maybe he plays even better when he doesn't have to sit on the bench for a month at a time? There is some risk involved, keeping Lu and trading Schneider would also be risky. Given the choice, I'll take the guy that wants to be here and says the right things.

You should also consider that Schneider will give us better goaltending, especially in the playoffs, than we've been getting. That's every bit as possible as him having a hard time as a starter given his pedigree and career thus far.
every bit as possible, I'd agree. call that a wash.
then i very much agree with whoever said if a luongo trade returns mediocre pieces but schneider returns a homerun ...you have to look at that

and I agree that reading the "maybe it's time to move on" line as something more than an exasperated & proud pro who was passed over in the final game of the season of highest expectations is a bit unfair -- hardly seditious or cause for being barred from the lockerroom...

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11-29-2012, 05:38 PM
  #391
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every bit as possible, I'd agree. call that a wash.
then i very much agree with whoever said if a luongo trade returns mediocre pieces but schneider returns a homerun ...you have to look at that
I think people are reading a little bit too much into Lu's "HF value" and are ignoring how great a player Schneider is.

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and I agree that reading the "maybe it's time to move on" line as something more than an exasperated & proud pro who was passed over in the final game of the season of highest expectations is a bit unfair -- hardly seditious or cause for being barred from the lockerroom...
Ban from the locker room I said he should be the one traded, no need to put words in my mouth.

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11-29-2012, 05:46 PM
  #392
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every bit as possible, I'd agree. call that a wash.
then i very much agree with whoever said if a luongo trade returns mediocre pieces but schneider returns a homerun ...you have to look at that

and I agree that reading the "maybe it's time to move on" line as something more than an exasperated & proud pro who was passed over in the final game of the season of highest expectations is a bit unfair -- hardly seditious or cause for being barred from the lockerroom...
Bingo.

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11-29-2012, 05:50 PM
  #393
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Bingo.
He got a bit of a pass from me for the comments he made the day after we were eliminated because emotions were running high. The comment about it being "time to move on" was not made under similar circumstances. Lu had time to think about it and let his feelings be known.

The best thing for the team would have been for Lu to keep his mouth shut, he should have learned that by now.


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11-29-2012, 06:20 PM
  #394
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I have a feeling Gillis has notified the rest of the league that he's willing to move Schneider if the right deal came along. If the provisions in the CBA being proposed go through and they penalize legacy cap circumventing contracts (like Lou's) I can see Gillis turning the page and dealing Schneider. At the very least he must put it out there to pressure teams like Toronto to put their best offer forward for Lou.

Unlike Lou, there is a bigger market for Schneider as he'd upgrade more than half the teams in net on a shorter contract, is 7 years younger and is close to Lou in ability at this point. Unlike a Lou trade, we could find a fit that would fill holes on the team. Where does that leave Toronto? Out in the cold IMO. They don't have the assets to get Schneider from Vancouver.

Gillis was more than prepared to see out that contract when he offered it. I have no doubt he'd still be willing to do so, if only ownership supported moving Schneider.
I don't think a GM would ever completely shut the door on trading a player (Schneider). I think a good GM will always keep that door open. However, if any GM actually believed he'd be moved I don't think Yzerman would have brought in Lindback. He's been after Schneids for a coons age.

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11-29-2012, 06:23 PM
  #395
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I would have said the same thing Lou did and we are bloody lucky he's even willing to do the noble thing and offer to waive his NTC. Lou's statement does not show a lack of commitment to the team or the city....it's a statement that Schneider is ready to lead this team, and if that's what the Canucks want he won't stand in their way. Like I said, we're lucky he thinks that way. It gives us the option, but not the obligation to move him. Yay us.
Luongo clearly doesn't want to play in Vancouver. It's time to move on. He's a professional, so I'm sure he'll come back and be a solid teammate until Gillis can move him, but I don't see how anyone can think it's an option to keep a guy who doesn't want to be in Vancouver as the starter long term.

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11-29-2012, 06:24 PM
  #396
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I am not disagreeing with your understanding of the circumstance with Burke having a ceiling price. I am merely pointing out the Leafs will still be without a goalie. The consequence of which will (most predictably) be a non play-off season. Considering this, I think your evaluation of Burke's ceiling price is much higher than you perceive.
What i know about Burke....he is a stupborn mule. He isn't going to pay more than he wants to....right or wrong...he will start Reimer before he overpays.

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11-29-2012, 07:09 PM
  #397
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Or maybe he plays even better when he doesn't have to sit on the bench for a month at a time? There is some risk involved, keeping Lu and trading Schneider would also be risky. Given the choice, I'll take the guy that wants to be here and says the right things.

You should also consider that Schneider will give us better goaltending, especially in the playoffs, than we've been getting. That's every bit as possible as him having a hard time as a starter given his pedigree and career thus far.
You're right. And maybe Schneider improves on his already excessively high PK SVP and sets all time records for PK SVP and becomes the most dominant goalie in NHL history. Quite possible, but completely insane to expect IMO.

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11-29-2012, 07:16 PM
  #398
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You're right. And maybe Schneider improves on his already excessively high PK SVP and sets all time records for PK SVP and becomes the most dominant goalie in NHL history. Quite possible, but completely insane to expect IMO.
Or maybe his combined save percentage speaks louder than the noise in his PK save percentage, as studies have shown, and he continues to put up impressive numbers?

Numbers aside, Schneider looks better. He's more athletic, better technically and is a much more stable personality. The numbers only back up what I see with my eyes.

I know I can never win this argument with you, you'll just move the needle. I can see it now "Lu would have done that if the team would have scored some goals or played better defensively".

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11-29-2012, 07:39 PM
  #399
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Or maybe his combined save percentage speaks louder than the noise in his PK save percentage, as studies have shown, and he continues to put up impressive numbers?

Numbers aside, Schneider looks better. He's more athletic, better technically and is a much more stable personality. The numbers only back up what I see with my eyes.

I know I can never win this argument with you, you'll just move the needle. I can see it now "Lu would have done that if the team would have scored some goals or played better defensively".
Well I can say that Luongo went further in a series with less offensive support than Schneider did, so....

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11-29-2012, 07:42 PM
  #400
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Well I can say that Luongo went further in a series with less offensive support than Schneider did, so....
Schneider put up .960+ in a series where Lu went sub .900... again. Goalies can't score goals but they can allow less and give your team a better chance to win.

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