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Would you rather win 1 Stanley Cup or 5 Hart Trophies if you were a player?

View Poll Results: Would you rather win
1 Stanley Cup 163 48.95%
5 Hart Trophies 170 51.05%
Voters: 333. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-23-2012, 02:51 PM
  #276
Prattio
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5 harts no question.

Seriously I would be a hockey icon. Talked about as an all time great and superstar. Sure people might snicker and bring up that I never one the cup. But **** them man 5 harts probably means I'm a top 10 all time player. Now that's way more of a mark on hockey history then being on a team who won the cup.

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Old
11-23-2012, 02:51 PM
  #277
Sky04
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Originally Posted by Thallis View Post
If you're clearly the best player in the NHL, as you would be if you won 5 harts, you would be expected to make a big enough impact to bring your team over the edge over your career. It's not realistic to assume that an NHL legend is on terrible teams for his whole career, not winning a cup raises some serious red flags about your playoff performance.
Hart trophy winners of post-lockout era:

Malkin: out first round
Perry: out first round
H.Sedin: out SCF
Ovechkin: out 2nd round
Ovechkin: out 2nd round
Crosby: out 1st round
Thornton: out 2nd round

It's a team game. Tell me how many of those guys are red flag performers.


Last edited by Sky04: 11-23-2012 at 03:06 PM.
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Old
11-23-2012, 02:57 PM
  #278
Wrath
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thallis View Post
If you're clearly the best player in the NHL, as you would be if you won 5 harts, you would be expected to make a big enough impact to bring your team over the edge over your career. It's not realistic to assume that an NHL legend is on terrible teams for his whole career, not winning a cup raises some serious red flags about your playoff performance.
So you're saying that Ray Bourque was a bad playoff performer for the first 21 years of his career then?


It's a team game.

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11-23-2012, 03:07 PM
  #279
SnowblindNYR
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Originally Posted by RoytoSakic View Post
I'd take being a back-up goalie on a Cup winning team. Look at Cam Ward, was a back up. Jussi Markanen(?) almost won the Cup instead of Ward as a 3rd string goalie. I think Biron has it pretty sweet. I'm sure he'd love to be the starter, but he's also a great team player and gets himself involved as much as possible. I just like that team dynamic, the moments that come with it. Everyone here seems so focused on engraving their name in history, that they don't care about the moment that winning the Stanley Cup brings. Will you care when your dead that people remember your name? Of course not, your dead.
What exactly will there be to celebrate if you are a backup goalie? Taking shots in practice? I mean the SOME impact because he's a good backup he have given his team a good amount of points in the regular season which ended up giving the team a better seeding. Still I wouldn't feel all that important in the win. I'd feel like a fan with VIP access to parties. When you're dead it won't matter that you won a cup or had a big party at some point, either.

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Old
11-23-2012, 03:10 PM
  #280
SnowblindNYR
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Originally Posted by Thallis View Post
If you're clearly the best player in the NHL, as you would be if you won 5 harts, you would be expected to make a big enough impact to bring your team over the edge over your career. It's not realistic to assume that an NHL legend is on terrible teams for his whole career, not winning a cup raises some serious red flags about your playoff performance.
Um, Hasek, who plays the most influential position in the NHL would have been considered one of the best ever even if he never went to Detroit. It's a team game. Gretzky playing on a ****** team would never have won the cup.

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Old
11-23-2012, 03:30 PM
  #281
M Gaz
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Stanley Cup > everything else

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Old
11-23-2012, 03:33 PM
  #282
Jesus Vitale
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I'd much rather win 1 Stanley Cup. That's what almost every hockey player dreams of all their life. and i think after maybe the second Hart, they're just meaningless. And when you retire you'd always have that regret that you never won the Cup.

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11-23-2012, 03:47 PM
  #283
WarriorofTime
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Originally Posted by CaseyPierroZabotel17 View Post
I'd much rather win 1 Stanley Cup. That's what almost every hockey player dreams of all their life. and i think after maybe the second Hart, they're just meaningless. And when you retire you'd always have that regret that you never won the Cup.
You don't think marginal players ever regret that they couldn't score more points? Maybe they won't say so in formal interviews cuz they don't want to look bad but I'm sure most 4th liners dream they could put up a ton of points and make big plays.

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Old
11-23-2012, 03:47 PM
  #284
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I'd rather be mentioned in the same breath as Gretzky and Howe as the only 5 time Hart winners than be Esa Tikkanen in 1984-85.

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Old
11-23-2012, 03:50 PM
  #285
Gigantor The Goalie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
What exactly will there be to celebrate if you are a backup goalie? Taking shots in practice? I mean the SOME impact because he's a good backup he have given his team a good amount of points in the regular season which ended up giving the team a better seeding. Still I wouldn't feel all that important in the win. I'd feel like a fan with VIP access to parties. When you're dead it won't matter that you won a cup or had a big party at some point, either.
You don't get it do you? I don't think you will even if I made a really nice powerpoint presentation with all the bells and whistles. Didn't you read what I wrote before? Guess it doesn't matter because you won't change your opinion. I won't that's for sure, guess its because I know what it's like to have a real team dynamic going on. Celebrating a Cup win with your teammates is a hell of a lot better then celebrating a Hart trophy. Sure your team is happy for you, but look at hockey players in the NHL. Bourque in particular, he is a great defenseman. He could have easily retired with Boston and no Cups yet he still went to Colorado to try and win one. Why? It's been made perfectly clear that he didn't need to yet he went for it.

Anyways, you don't give the back-up goalie enough credit. He always has to be ready to go in. My example with Cam Ward and Markkanen was perfect. Both were back-up goalies that needed to come in and preform. If Ward isn't ready, if Ward doesn't care, the Hurricanes don't win the Cup. Conklin wasn't ready and he threw away the first game of the series. Like I said before, yes all back up goalies would rather be the starter, yet they do play an important role. More important then you'll ever realize I'm sure.

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Old
11-23-2012, 03:57 PM
  #286
WarriorofTime
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Originally Posted by RoytoSakic View Post
You don't get it do you? I don't think you will even if I made a really nice powerpoint presentation with all the bells and whistles. Didn't you read what I wrote before? Guess it doesn't matter because you won't change your opinion. I won't that's for sure, guess its because I know what it's like to have a real team dynamic going on. Celebrating a Cup win with your teammates is a hell of a lot better then celebrating a Hart trophy. Sure your team is happy for you, but look at hockey players in the NHL. Bourque in particular, he is a great defenseman. He could have easily retired with Boston and no Cups yet he still went to Colorado to try and win one. Why? It's been made perfectly clear that he didn't need to yet he went for it.

Anyways, you don't give the back-up goalie enough credit. He always has to be ready to go in. My example with Cam Ward and Markkanen was perfect. Both were back-up goalies that needed to come in and preform. If Ward isn't ready, if Ward doesn't care, the Hurricanes don't win the Cup. Conklin wasn't ready and he threw away the first game of the series. Like I said before, yes all back up goalies would rather be the starter, yet they do play an important role. More important then you'll ever realize I'm sure.
A Conn Smythe Winner is not a typical backup. I'm sure winning the Stanley Cup is more thrilling but in terms of what it actually represents is a lot less impressive. I played lots of team sports.. maybe I was smarter than other kids but I could almost always recognize that I could only do so much to help my team win and wouldn't beat myself up too bad if my team lost. If you don't do much and your team wins meanwhile, it's a nice feeling in the moment definitely but after a while it loses its luster. Most of my best sports memories are of the best moments I had as an individual player not really of great things my teammates did that I didn't have a big part of. In a formal interview I might give a different answer but being truthful to myself it'd probably be more about individual accomplishments. I don't think that really makes me selfish as in the moment I was all about the team.

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Old
11-23-2012, 04:08 PM
  #287
SnowblindNYR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoytoSakic View Post
You don't get it do you? I don't think you will even if I made a really nice powerpoint presentation with all the bells and whistles. Didn't you read what I wrote before? Guess it doesn't matter because you won't change your opinion. I won't that's for sure, guess its because I know what it's like to have a real team dynamic going on. Celebrating a Cup win with your teammates is a hell of a lot better then celebrating a Hart trophy. Sure your team is happy for you, but look at hockey players in the NHL. Bourque in particular, he is a great defenseman. He could have easily retired with Boston and no Cups yet he still went to Colorado to try and win one. Why? It's been made perfectly clear that he didn't need to yet he went for it.

Anyways, you don't give the back-up goalie enough credit. He always has to be ready to go in. My example with Cam Ward and Markkanen was perfect. Both were back-up goalies that needed to come in and preform. If Ward isn't ready, if Ward doesn't care, the Hurricanes don't win the Cup. Conklin wasn't ready and he threw away the first game of the series. Like I said before, yes all back up goalies would rather be the starter, yet they do play an important role. More important then you'll ever realize I'm sure.
Bourque (like Hasek) was already one of the best of all time. He went to Colorado to add a cup. He didn't trade his status as one of the best of all time to win a cup. I'd be shocked if he would have, even if a genie offered him that. No one says that people who win 5 Harts don't want to win a cup. Just that I'd personally be a lot more satisfied with my career if I were 5 time Hart winner than if I was a 4th liner on a cup winning team. A party with my teammates won't change that. How long does that last? Your legacy is eternal.

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Old
11-23-2012, 04:40 PM
  #288
Senacus Maximus
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Quality over quantity my friends.

The 5 Hart winner would never forget the one that got away.

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Old
11-23-2012, 05:04 PM
  #289
SnowblindNYR
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Originally Posted by SenacusMaximus View Post
Quality over quantity my friends.

The 5 Hart winner would never forget the one that got away.
In what world is a Hart trophy not quality?

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Old
11-23-2012, 05:49 PM
  #290
Sky04
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Originally Posted by SenacusMaximus View Post
Quality over quantity my friends.

The 5 Hart winner would never forget the one that got away.
Good point,

Darren Rumble > A Gretzky without any cups

Remember kids, it's not about being the best hockey player you can be, it's about getting traded/drafted to the right team.

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Old
11-23-2012, 05:49 PM
  #291
Howard Beale
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I have a question for those that would choose the cup win: if you were an NHL prospect, would you rather be a 1st overall draft pick for the Columbus Blue Jackets, destined to be a star player but unlikely to win a Stanley Cup any time soon? Or a 200th overall draft pick to the Pittsburgh Penguins, with a high likelihood of winning a Stanley Cup but little chance of being more than a 4th liner?

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Old
11-23-2012, 05:55 PM
  #292
Inkling
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I'm surprised the vote is so close. For me I'd choose a Cup no question, as long as I had some meaningful contribution. I wouldn't have to be a first or second liner, but I would want to have some impact however modest. If you're a passenger on the bench, why bother, but otherwise 1 Cup >>> 5 Harts.

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Old
11-23-2012, 06:21 PM
  #293
John Swartzwelder
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As a 5 time hart winner but no stanley cups, what's stopping you from winning 3 memorial trophies, 2 WJCs, 3 olympic gold medals, 10 world championships, then go to europe and win 5 khl titles and 3 swedish league titles?? vs just 1 cup.

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Old
11-23-2012, 06:21 PM
  #294
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5 Hart

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Old
11-23-2012, 06:32 PM
  #295
SnowblindNYR
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Originally Posted by Inkling View Post
I'm surprised the vote is so close. For me I'd choose a Cup no question, as long as I had some meaningful contribution. I wouldn't have to be a first or second liner, but I would want to have some impact however modest. If you're a passenger on the bench, why bother, but otherwise 1 Cup >>> 5 Harts.
You would rather be Niemi than Hasek (if he never went to Detroit)? It's funny when people on HF talk about best goalies, Hasek is always on the short list, and I've yet to see anyone bring up his Cup.

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Old
11-23-2012, 07:00 PM
  #296
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5 Harts mean that you probably crack the Big4 in hockey and make it Big5. I'd take that. Not having a Cup being a generational player would hurt me personally though.

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11-23-2012, 07:49 PM
  #297
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Originally Posted by sky04 View Post
Good point,

Darren Rumble > A Gretzky without any cups

Remember kids, it's not about being the best hockey player you can be, it's about getting traded/drafted to the right team.
Why can't the guy without the Hart's be a great player? Yzerman never won a Hart but he's one of the greatest centers of all time. I don't think he'd trade his Cups for 5 Harts, in fact i don't even think he'd trade one cup for the Harts. Stanley Cup all the way. I don't know how the question has been so warped that people have put artificial limitations on the "Cup winners" option by comparing them to Darren Rumble/ instead of a guy like Yzerman.

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11-23-2012, 07:50 PM
  #298
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I said it before in thread but I'll say it again. 1 cup. Easily. I'm a person who despises failure, especially the closer you are to reaching your goal.

As a teenager I played in a hockey from my hometown (Helsinki) suburb. Half of my teammates were very good friends even outside hockey, the other half just a great bunch of guys. We were in a tournament, it wasn't even anything super prestigious, just one of the bunch of tournaments in Finnish Junior Hockey.

We won every game in the standings, made our way through the playoff into the finals and lost there in OT. It sucked so much ass you can't believe it. Afterwards we went to sauna, drank few beers and everyone was so down and deflated it's unbeliavable. If not counting loss of family members it was one of the ********* day in my life.

I was obsessed about it for over a week. Couldn't get stop thinking ''what if I had done that, what if he hadn't done this, what if this would've happened''.

I know myself well enough to know that if I spent 20 years leaving family and friends behing in a foreign country and culture and I didn't have the ultimate glory of the Cup with me I'd probably go crazy. All those years, if you were a 5 time Hart winner and never could lead your team to Cup... it'd eat me inside. Perhaps make me crazy.

Assuming the choice was 4th line grinder who still had a complete career in hockey, winning it all, against a superstar who never reached the pinnacle of hockey, I'd be that 4th line grinder ten times out of ten.

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Old
11-23-2012, 07:54 PM
  #299
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Originally Posted by Howard Beale View Post
I have a question for those that would choose the cup win: if you were an NHL prospect, would you rather be a 1st overall draft pick for the Columbus Blue Jackets, destined to be a star player but unlikely to win a Stanley Cup any time soon? Or a 200th overall draft pick to the Pittsburgh Penguins, with a high likelihood of winning a Stanley Cup but little chance of being more than a 4th liner?
First rounder for sure. I would enjoy being a part of a rebuilding process....and by the time I'm reaching towards UFA and the team is still not competing, then I will sign with a team that would contend with the cup.

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Old
11-23-2012, 08:57 PM
  #300
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
You would rather be Niemi than Hasek (if he never went to Detroit)? It's funny when people on HF talk about best goalies, Hasek is always on the short list, and I've yet to see anyone bring up his Cup.
If he didn't have a Cup, that would be brought up.

On the other hand, Niemi and "won the Cup" often travel together.

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