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Would you rather win 1 Stanley Cup or 5 Hart Trophies if you were a player?

View Poll Results: Would you rather win
1 Stanley Cup 163 48.95%
5 Hart Trophies 170 51.05%
Voters: 333. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-22-2012, 02:32 AM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
Where does the question say "4th line scrub vs. 5 time Hart winner"?


Vincent Lecavalier has a Cup ring, more money than all of HF and no Harts.
OP initially said a player like Jay McKee as the person who won the Cup.
If you translated that to current defensemen, it'd be like would you rather be Weber or Lukowich.

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11-22-2012, 02:32 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by MonsterSurge View Post
Why would you not want to win the ultimate prize? I realize this is opinion-based, but it makes zero sense. Look at Dan Marino. He's one of the greatest of all time, but he has no ring!
I'd bet the majority of Hart wanters are half drunk youngsters that don't really understand the value of the SC.

I like your Marino comparison, he will always be the super duper QB who couldn't win s*** when it mattered. He'll spend the rest of his life wishing he won the SB, Eli Manning will spend his knowing he won it all, twice.

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11-22-2012, 02:37 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
OP initially said a player like Jay McKee as the person who won the Cup.
If you translated that to current defensemen, it'd be like would you rather be Weber or Lukowich.
McKee made $18M playing hockey and has a Cup. I'll bet, and I'll win, that any actual hockey player will take a Cup over a Harts all day long.


Would you rather be Vincent Lecavalier or Henrik Sedin winning 4 more Harts?

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11-22-2012, 02:40 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
McKee made $18M playing hockey and has a Cup. I'll bet, and I'll win, that any actual hockey player will take a Cup over a Harts all day long.


Would you rather be Vincent Lecavalier or Henrik Sedin winning 4 more Harts?
And again, when OP said Jay McKee, he meant as a player who didn't have much impact on the Cup run and made league minimum. He didn't realize that McKee made so much money.

Your argument and examples are pointless since we're basically arguing different things. Of course people would rather be Lecavalier since he's making more money and won a Cup. We're using the Hart trophy vs. 4th line scrub because
1) We're assuming that's what the OP meant in his post
2) It wouldn't be much of a debate if he meant Hart Trophy vs a player like Lecavalier

I could easily argue the other extreme. Would you rather be Alex Ovechkin or Kyle Clifford?

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11-22-2012, 02:42 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by sky04 View Post


Anyone who's played sports and won a championship at any level knows 1) How satisfying it is to know you had a big impact on the success, or 2) how it sucks to be watching from the bench as you rely on the better guys to get the job done.
This, I've been "that guy" on a high level lacrosse team, the one who barely plays in the games that mattered and even though I won, i didnt feel like part of the championship. I felt much better recently being a key player and "go to guy" on my last team even though it wasn't as competitive in comparison.

might just be me though

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11-22-2012, 02:46 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
I'd bet the majority of Hart wanters are half drunk youngsters that don't really understand the value of the SC.

I like your Marino comparison, he will always be the super duper QB who couldn't win s*** when it mattered. He'll spend the rest of his life wishing he won the SB, Eli Manning will spend his knowing he won it all, twice.
really? I thought the "half drunk youngsters" would be the ones voting for the cup because they don't realize the significance of being a hockey legend and would rather be a scrub with a ring then a member of the hall and a household name

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11-22-2012, 02:52 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
And again, when OP said Jay McKee, he meant as a player who didn't have much impact on the Cup run and made league minimum. He didn't realize that McKee made so much money.

Your argument and examples are pointless since we're basically arguing different things. Of course people would rather be Lecavalier since he's making more money and won a Cup. We're using the Hart trophy vs. 4th line scrub because
1) We're assuming that's what the OP meant in his post
2) It wouldn't be much of a debate if he meant Hart Trophy vs a player like Lecavalier

I could easily argue the other extreme. Would you rather be Alex Ovechkin or Kyle Clifford?
I'd rather win a team championship in a team sport than an award that is voted on. I'll still insist that most players will agree. Now if "make lots of money over having none" is the topic, perhaps some of the narcissists, and pragmatists, take the cash.

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11-22-2012, 02:56 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
I'd rather win a team championship in a team sport than an award that is voted on.
And our argument was, how much of an accomplishment is it really if you had absolutely no impact on your team's Cup run?

Nice use of ad hominems by the way. You can usually tell how strong someone's arguing skills are when they rely on them.

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11-22-2012, 03:04 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
And our argument was, how much of an accomplishment is it really if you had absolutely no impact on your team's Cup run?

Nice use of ad hominems by the way. You can usually tell how strong someone's arguing skills are when they rely on them.
I'd rather win a team championship than an individual award.

This has nothing to do with arguing skills, this is simply an opinion. You are free to disagree.

Edit: The OP seems to be about money and recognition. I'l stick with my earlier assertion that the Hart choosers haven't really ever played anything . Again, you are totally free to disagree.

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11-22-2012, 03:54 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
I'd rather win a team championship than an individual award.

This has nothing to do with arguing skills, this is simply an opinion. You are free to disagree.

Edit: The OP seems to be about money and recognition. I'l stick with my earlier assertion that the Hart choosers haven't really ever played anything . Again, you are totally free to disagree.
wow, just wow

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11-22-2012, 03:59 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
McKee made $18M playing hockey and has a Cup. I'll bet, and I'll win, that any actual hockey player will take a Cup over a Harts all day long.


Would you rather be Vincent Lecavalier or Henrik Sedin winning 4 more Harts?
That's a bad example, nobody is going to pick being Sedin (a ginger) over being Vinny Lecavalier... Plus Vinny makes more money by a wide margin...

I bet there are plenty of current players who would rather have 5 Hart's than a cup..

A guy like Semin maybe? I feel like even Jagr cares more about personal accolades than winning the SC... Even the sacred Pavel Bure could be accused of that I think

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11-22-2012, 04:23 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
I'd rather win a team championship than an individual award.

This has nothing to do with arguing skills, this is simply an opinion. You are free to disagree.

Edit: The OP seems to be about money and recognition. I'l stick with my earlier assertion that the Hart choosers haven't really ever played anything . Again, you are totally free to disagree.
Based on the OP's intended argument, it's easily the other way around. And the people picking cups obviously have never played sports. Sorry as an athlete, I'd want to be the best player I can be, not ride coat tails of better players to win a team award, just to be a "winner".

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11-22-2012, 04:26 AM
  #63
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I take this in a way that OP was talking about 4th line grinder who will never have personal impact on hockey or in the NHL. Only due to team success he won the Cup. Average career of NHL'er is what, 6 years? So if he would be a 4th liner with no particular skills over any 4th liner maybe he plays for 3 seasons.

After few years nobody will remember the guys name. He will not be a legend among the very best of the sports he obviously loves. But he will have the ultimate prize. He did not win it by himself but he still gets to enjoy it. He also has made money and connections so he will probably have the rest of his life secured. Not necessary as a millionaire but reasonably wealthy still.

Other is considered top-5 player of the sports. All-Time. He never got to celebrate the ultimate win of cup, even if he tried for years. He probably has 15-20 years of NHL career and has made enough money to support his family to generations ahead. He will be highly touted as one of the best to lace them up and people will remember his name in good and in bad for as long as the sports is played. Mostly in good.

He will have 5 Hart trophies and inevitable induction to the Hall of Fame, which is the highest honor a single player can have. He will have his name memorized in a significant part of history.

Now i would easily, very easily, take the 5 Hart trophies. Since that means i was very damn good at what i did and i can be proud of it.

Winning the Cup with having nothing to contribute on it would just make me lucky.

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11-22-2012, 05:36 AM
  #64
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When I was a kid we always pretended we were playing for the Cup. We never pretended we were trying to win the Hart trophy,

The Hart trophy would be nice, but it sure isn't the Stanley Cup.

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11-22-2012, 05:39 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky04 View Post
Based on the OP's intended argument, it's easily the other way around. And the people picking cups obviously have never played sports. Sorry as an athlete, I'd want to be the best player I can be, not ride coat tails of better players to win a team award, just to be a "winner".
Who says you would be riding someone's coattails? Maybe you win the Conn Smyth as well. Maybe we could be talking about a player like Jonathan Toews vs a player like Joe Thornton(if he won 5 instead 1 Hart). At least the original post doesn't state anything about being a 4th liner.

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11-22-2012, 05:49 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
Who says you would be riding someone's coattails? Maybe you win the Conn Smyth as well. Maybe we could be talking about a player like Jonathan Toews vs a player like Joe Thornton(if he won 5 instead 1 Hart). At least the original post doesn't state anything about being a 4th liner.
Again, he initially did, hence "intended argument".

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11-22-2012, 05:53 AM
  #67
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Is this serious? 5 Hart trophies...come on.

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11-22-2012, 06:12 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
Who says you would be riding someone's coattails? Maybe you win the Conn Smyth as well. Maybe we could be talking about a player like Jonathan Toews vs a player like Joe Thornton(if he won 5 instead 1 Hart). At least the original post doesn't state anything about being a 4th liner.
And if Joe Thornton won 5 harts he would go down as one of the greatest players to ever in the history of the game of hockey. Forever solidifying his place in hockey history.

Toews wouldn't be remembered 20 years from now.

I don't see your point? Toews would 1 cup/CS and gets his 15 mins of fame over a guy who'll be a top-10 forward all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
When I was a kid we always pretended we were playing for the Cup. We never pretended we were trying to win the Hart trophy,

The Hart trophy would be nice, but it sure isn't the Stanley Cup.
I also wanted to fly into outter space and pull bunnies out of a hat for a living when I was a kid.

Your perspective changes as you grow up, Why does Sidney Crosby keep trying to be the best player in the world? He's already won the cup at age 21, dream completed, should he have just retired?


Last edited by Sky04: 11-22-2012 at 06:17 AM.
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11-22-2012, 06:21 AM
  #69
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If watching the awards after Boston beat Vancouver was any indication, I'd say winning the cup is priority.

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11-22-2012, 06:27 AM
  #70
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Stupid question, obviously the 5 harts. If i have 5 harts i atleast was the best player for 5 years, 1 cup doesnt guarantee anything, in worst case scenario i was for example in position of Tuukka Rask, where i dont actually start any games during my teams cup run, just suit up and watch them win from the bench, that would actually just bring bitterness. And while technically you did win the cup, no-one is going to give you credit for it at all, as they should.

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11-22-2012, 07:21 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by sky04 View Post
And if Joe Thornton won 5 harts he would go down as one of the greatest players to ever in the history of the game of hockey. Forever solidifying his place in hockey history.

Toews wouldn't be remembered 20 years from now.

I don't see your point? Toews would 1 cup/CS and gets his 15 mins of fame over a guy who'll be a top-10 forward all time?



I also wanted to fly into outter space and pull bunnies out of a hat for a living when I was a kid.

Your perspective changes as you grow up, Why does Sidney Crosby keep trying to be the best player in the world? He's already won the cup at age 21, dream completed, should he have just retired?
This thread isn't about what other people would think of you, it is about what you would rather have. I would rather have a Cup, it would be nice to win 5 Hart trophies no doubt about that, it just isn't what I would dream about when I was a kid.

It is pretty rare for Conn Smyth winners to be forgotten and Toews is a pretty good player, I doubt he is forgotten even if a guy who wins 5 Hart trophies is remembered and make no mistake about, he will also be remembered as a guy who never won a Cup just like Marcel Dionne is remembered as a great player who could never win a Cup and people always question how good he really was, deserved or not and that is how it would be for the guy who won 5 Harts and no Cups.

Some people would dismiss him as not being able to get it done when it mattered most whether he deserved that reputation or not.

So what would you rather have, a Cup and a Conn Smyth or 5 harts and a reputation as a reguler season player who could never get it done when it mattered most? People would project that onto a player who wins 5 Harts and no Cups whether we like it or not, that is the way it is.

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11-22-2012, 07:49 AM
  #72
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I'd rather win the Stanley Cup.

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11-22-2012, 08:19 AM
  #73
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I dreamed as a kid about winning this:



not this:


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11-22-2012, 08:44 AM
  #74
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The Stanley Cup

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11-22-2012, 08:52 AM
  #75
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I don't really understand the dogmatic adherence to the Cup. The idea that only "half-drunk kids" or people who "have never played anything" would choose the Hart is ridiculous.

If I had the choice of being one of 1200+ players in history to be on the cup, or one of 2 players in history to win 5+ Harts, I take the Harts without much thought. The Cup is more or less a crapshoot for some players, while luck has nothing to do with the Harts. I've played my whole life and I want to be the best player I can be, not some 4th-line grinder who happened to find himself on a good team one year in his career.

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