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Old
11-28-2012, 03:13 AM
  #126
Bryanbryoil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Look at Peoria, the only NHL player on that roster is Cole and maybe Schwartz, but I doubt he would've made the team out of camp. And Cole has been playing with Peoria for the majority of his professional career, so they really didn't add any NHL players.
Farm teams that have at least a couple of NHL talents on them:

Edm
Philly
NJ
CBJ
Min
NYI
Car
Cgy
Van
Det
LA
Buf
I'll stop there. There is a lot of talent in this year's AHL beyond OKC.

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11-28-2012, 03:20 AM
  #127
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Lol I doubt Eberle will see anything like a Chara or Weber in the AHL. Maybe someday but certainly not ATM.

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11-28-2012, 03:22 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Farm teams that have at least a couple of NHL talents on them:

Edm
Philly
NJ
CBJ
Min
NYI
Car
Cgy
Van
Det
LA
Buf
I'll stop there. There is a lot of talent in this year's AHL beyond OKC.
The definition of a couple is two. The hershey bears have Dmitry Orlov and Braden Holtby.

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11-28-2012, 03:58 AM
  #129
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I can't believe this is a debate, the KHL has a lot of the NHLs talent mixed with its own. No way the AHL is the better league right now, yeah they added some young talent but no where near Malkin, Kovy, OV, and soon Crosby caliber players.

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11-28-2012, 04:58 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Oshie97 View Post
I can't believe this is a debate, the KHL has a lot of the NHLs talent mixed with its own. No way the AHL is the better league right now, yeah they added some young talent but no where near Malkin, Kovy, OV, and soon Crosby caliber players.
Defence and goaltending are probably about even between the leagues. So, aside from about 6 or 8 world class stars in the khl they're probably pretty close, talent wise. There's maybe, what, 7 guys better than couturier in the khl, for instance? In the ahl it's probably 5 or 6.

I dunno, maybe I'm way off. It's late. I just think you're overstating the difference due to just a few really high end guys. The rank and file 2nd and 3rd liners are probably just as good in the ahl if not better.

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11-28-2012, 05:40 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by CSimpson18 View Post
Defence and goaltending are probably about even between the leagues. So, aside from about 6 or 8 world class stars in the khl they're probably pretty close, talent wise. There's maybe, what, 7 guys better than couturier in the khl, for instance? In the ahl it's probably 5 or 6.

I dunno, maybe I'm way off. It's late. I just think you're overstating the difference due to just a few really high end guys. The rank and file 2nd and 3rd liners are probably just as good in the ahl if not better.
Even without NHL lockout players in the KHL, it's much closer in terms of talent to the NHL then the AHL is compared to the KHL.(including the small influx of talent in the AHL this year)

Not all Russians want to play in the NHL, different people have different priorities, that doesn't make them wrong, lazy, unmotivated, unable to play in the NHL, etc (and I'm not saying that you said that). The top Russians come to the NHL, there isn't a sudden drop in Russian talent after the top stars. I mean there's more Czechs, or Swedes in the NHL then there is Russians, and I very much doubt those countries are as deep as Russia.

I'm making 2mil(almost tax free) playing at home, in front of friends and family, people that matter, or I could risk coming to play in the NHL and make 400-600k(post taxes)(elc), or possibly risk making 55k in the AHL for 3 years. Easy choice for me.


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Old
11-28-2012, 08:22 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Interesting...

"The Barons are an exception..."

and you respond with...

"Look at the Barons!"
if the Barons were the norm, It would of been over 200 NHLers playing in the AHL, not 75-100. So there goes that. The league is stacked right now, whether you want to admit or not. Yes, some teams have more talent than others, that's just how it goes. But I would still say from top to bottom, including talent, play style, rink size, etc., that the AHL is the closest thing there is to NHL right now. There's hitting, there's fights, there's defensive systems, etc.. The KHL is a gong show, huge ice, not a whole bunch of contact, majority of the players are Russian. The other leagues are all loaded with their own players and a couple of roster exceptions on some of the teams. This doesn't change the style of play that these leagues are known for.

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11-28-2012, 08:41 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by backs4mvp View Post
Even without NHL lockout players in the KHL, it's much closer in terms of talent to the NHL then the AHL is compared to the KHL.(including the small influx of talent in the AHL this year)

Not all Russians want to play in the NHL, different people have different priorities, that doesn't make them wrong, lazy, unmotivated, unable to play in the NHL, etc (and I'm not saying that you said that). The top Russians come to the NHL, there isn't a sudden drop in Russian talent after the top stars. I mean there's more Czechs, or Swedes in the NHL then there is Russians, and I very much doubt those countries are as deep as Russia.

I'm making 2mil(almost tax free) playing at home, in front of friends and family, people that matter, or I could risk coming to play in the NHL and make 400-600k(post taxes)(elc), or possibly risk making 55k in the AHL for 3 years. Easy choice for me.
the majority of those Russians in the KHL are not making 2 million. They pay the big names, big money, of course all those contracts are not guaranteed. The reason you play in the AHL is it's main way to get to the NHL. The K and the A are different games. NHL players that weren't either assigned to the AHL before the lock out or that were on their first contracts were not eligible to play in the AHL, even if they wanted to.

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11-28-2012, 09:12 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by CSimpson18 View Post
Defence and goaltending are probably about even between the leagues. So, aside from about 6 or 8 world class stars in the khl they're probably pretty close, talent wise. There's maybe, what, 7 guys better than couturier in the khl, for instance? In the ahl it's probably 5 or 6.

I dunno, maybe I'm way off. It's late. I just think you're overstating the difference due to just a few really high end guys. The rank and file 2nd and 3rd liners are probably just as good in the ahl if not better.
I just listed the stars, think about all the good nhl players that went over. If we made a list of the nhlers that went over and compaired them to the ahlers it would be obvious that the KHL has more talent right now. I think the KHL is more talented without the NHL players but that's besides the point.

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Old
11-28-2012, 09:21 AM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
To Oilers
John Carlson
Jeff Schultz
2013 2nd round pick


To Caps
Jordan Eberle
Jeff Petry


To Oilers
Kevin Shattenkirk
Patrik Berglund



To Blues
Jordan Eberle
Jeff Petry
There is not one of these teams that would do this deal . All teams are happy with their young players and have invested time and money into their development . From a hockey fan
Now as an Oiler fan why the hell would we trade either of these guys . We all know what Eberle done at the world JR and what he did last year ,however most do not know how much Petry has improved . Once he settle in and played with Smid we had our first pair of D man that were good . Most of our D man should be in the AHL some are not even good enough for there . Smid and Petry and NHL D man

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11-28-2012, 09:24 AM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oshie97 View Post
I just listed the stars, think about all the good nhl players that went over. If we made a list of the nhlers that went over and compaired them to the ahlers it would be obvious that the KHL has more talent right now. I think the KHL is more talented without the NHL players but that's besides the point.
Talent, in terms of skill, sure. But the KHL is not NHL style hockey, it's not physical, it's just it's own animal. And all those NHLers that went to Europe are spread out over multiple leagues, the KHL, SEL, FEL, Swiss, Germany, etc.. They aren't all in the KHL.

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11-28-2012, 09:26 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by supert View Post
There is not one of these teams that would do this deal . All teams are happy with their young players and have invested time and money into their development . From a hockey fan
Now as an Oiler fan why the hell would we trade either of these guys . We all know what Eberle done at the world JR and what he did last year ,however most do not know how much Petry has improved . Once he settle in and played with Smid we had our first pair of D man that were good . Most of our D man should be in the AHL some are not even good enough for there . Smid and Petry and NHL D man
Agreed. The Caps love Carlson. The Blues love Shattenkirk. The Oilers love Eberle.

No reason and no chance any of these deals happen.

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Old
11-28-2012, 10:48 AM
  #138
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Carslon is the much more valuable player. Caps pass.

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Old
11-28-2012, 11:18 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by capitalsrock View Post
The definition of a couple is two. The hershey bears have Dmitry Orlov and Braden Holtby.
I stopped where I did just because I didn't want to list every team and it was getting late. It's fair to say that at least half (being conservative) have at least 2 NHL caliber players and probably 2-3 AHL/NHL tweeners. In the Barons case IMO we have 5 NHLers (Hartikainen added to our 4 skilled guys) and an argument could be made for Paajarvi as well. Then we've got a tweener like Teubert and probably a few others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oshie97 View Post
I can't believe this is a debate, the KHL has a lot of the NHLs talent mixed with its own. No way the AHL is the better league right now, yeah they added some young talent but no where near Malkin, Kovy, OV, and soon Crosby caliber players.
Again the talent level is better in the KHL because let's face it they have Malkin, Kovalchuk, and Ovechkin. That said this is a tougher league which more resembles NHL hockey.

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Old
11-28-2012, 11:31 AM
  #140
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The argument was never about which league resembles the NHL the most, it's clear the AHL resembles the NHL more. Also just because the AHL resembles the NHL the most, doesn't mean it is the toughest.

Regardless, this whole argument started when someone was using Eberle's AHL stats to prove what he can sustain in the NHL. Even though I agree that Eberle will be a perennial 30 goal scorer, it is a horrible argument. AHL stats are meaningless to the NHL, and if the AHL resembled the NHL so much, players like TJ Hensick would become good NHL players, and if the AHL saw a dramatic change this season, Hensick would have saw his numbers decrease.

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11-28-2012, 12:25 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
The argument was never about which league resembles the NHL the most, it's clear the AHL resembles the NHL more. Also just because the AHL resembles the NHL the most, doesn't mean it is the toughest.

Regardless, this whole argument started when someone was using Eberle's AHL stats to prove what he can sustain in the NHL. Even though I agree that Eberle will be a perennial 30 goal scorer, it is a horrible argument. AHL stats are meaningless to the NHL, and if the AHL resembled the NHL so much, players like TJ Hensick would become good NHL players, and if the AHL saw a dramatic change this season, Hensick would have saw his numbers decrease.
Not every player's AHL stats do translate to NHL success. Look at Alex Giroux, the guy is a 50/60 goal scorer in the AHL, but due to foot speed and some other factors, he isn't even an NHL regular. I think it's fair to say, Eberle/Hall/RNH have all shown they can produce in the NHL, so their numbers in the AHL, do mean something, if you ask me. Justin Schultz, on the other hand, is unproven in the NHL, we don't know for sure how his numbers will translate to the big league. One thing is for sure, if Eberle stays healthy, he will lead the AHL in scoring, and it will translate to the NHL. You can disagree all you want, I'll just sit back and watch.

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11-28-2012, 12:35 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by JustinCider View Post
Not every player's AHL stats do translate to NHL success. Look at Alex Giroux, the guy is a 50/60 goal scorer in the AHL, but due to foot speed and some other factors, he isn't even an NHL regular. I think it's fair to say, Eberle/Hall/RNH have all shown they can produce in the NHL, so their numbers in the AHL, do mean something, if you ask me. Justin Schultz, on the other hand, is unproven in the NHL, we don't know for sure how his numbers will translate to the big league. One thing is for sure, if Eberle stays healthy, he will lead the AHL in scoring, and it will translate to the NHL. You can disagree all you want, I'll just sit back and watch.
Again, you are missing the point. People are using his shooting % in the AHL to prove that he can maintain it in the NHL. The AHL goalies and defense are miles worse than the NHL's. Shooting percentages in inferior leagues mean nothing in relation to the NHL.

We already know what Eberle can do in the NHL, and his numbers in the AHL will not affect that.

If people want to argue that Eberle will be a perennial 30 goal scorer in the NHL, they should use arguments that he will shoot more in future years, he will continue to be a major threat on the powerplay, or that he will improve as a player in future years. They should not use his AHL stats because he is multiple levels above his competition, and it should be expected that he dominates this season. He's on pace for 118 points, that proves that the AHL is more than a few notches below the NHL.

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11-28-2012, 12:44 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Yes he is but the difference between Eberle and Berglund is far greater than the difference between Shattenkirk and Petry IMO.
lol get real.

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11-28-2012, 12:48 PM
  #144
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lol get real.
Remember Eberle is on Pietrangelo's level...

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11-28-2012, 01:30 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Again, you are missing the point. People are using his shooting % in the AHL to prove that he can maintain it in the NHL. The AHL goalies and defense are miles worse than the NHL's. Shooting percentages in inferior leagues mean nothing in relation to the NHL.

We already know what Eberle can do in the NHL, and his numbers in the AHL will not affect that.

If people want to argue that Eberle will be a perennial 30 goal scorer in the NHL, they should use arguments that he will shoot more in future years, he will continue to be a major threat on the powerplay, or that he will improve as a player in future years. They should not use his AHL stats because he is multiple levels above his competition, and it should be expected that he dominates this season. He's on pace for 118 points, that proves that the AHL is more than a few notches below the NHL.
Re the bolded, you might want to re-read this current thread since you missed the 4 pages whrere all of the bolded was said and you ignored and solely focused on the AHL so the last 2 pages became about the AHL

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11-28-2012, 01:37 PM
  #146
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Re the bolded, you might want to re-read this current thread since you missed the 4 pages whrere all of the bolded was said and you ignored and solely focused on the AHL so the last 2 pages became about the AHL
Maybe you should re-read, as I was involved in that, and I had no problem with any of those arguments. I am a fan of Eberle and believe he will be a 30 goal scorer throughout his career, but I've always said throughout this thread that using his AHL shooting percentage as an argument is a horrible way to prove it. Then it went into how good the AHL is, and even though the style is most similar to the NHL, the talent and ability level is nowhere near, thus making the stats that Eberle produces there, meaningless, just like the stats that other NHL players produce in Europe.

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11-28-2012, 02:31 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Remember Eberle is on Pietrangelo's level...
said nobody ever.

Eberle is by far the most valuable piece in the proposed deal though.

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11-28-2012, 02:37 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
said nobody ever.

Eberle is by far the most valuable piece in the proposed deal though.
It's in reference to a thread started by an Oiler fan with those 2 that ended horribly. Crazy enough, it has been said, and during this past season.

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11-28-2012, 02:38 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
It's in reference to a thread started by an Oiler fan with those 2 that ended horribly. Crazy enough, it has been said, and during this past season.
Well I sincerely apologize on behalf of whoever said that. If STL offered Pietrangelo for Eberle I'd take it and run.

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11-28-2012, 07:05 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
Well I sincerely apologize on behalf of whoever said that. If STL offered Pietrangelo for Eberle I'd take it and run.
I believe most people would agree with that. AP is a stud, and as good as Ebs is, I'd move him in a second for AP. I'd move any of the Oilers straight up for AP, except for RNH. #1 centres are just as rare as #1 D. Don't get me wrong, I think the value would be close, but Edmonton hasn't had a #1 centre since Doug Weight, and before that it was Messier.

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