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Lockout Discussion Thread 3.0

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Old
12-06-2012, 08:59 AM
  #676
gusfring
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
You are talking about a pseudo professor. Not a teaching professor. Paid by corporations to do research. Fine, I'm sure he's an expert.

I'm not talking about applied science and engineering. These are borderline academic positions and everyone knows it.

I'm talking about liberal arts, mathematics, philosophy and pure science. Not corporate paid applied science.
Regardless, my opinion is that there are about 4-5 too may teams in the NHL that are being helped up by the NHL and the richer teams.

And the revenue streams are not there in this league to support them.

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12-06-2012, 09:01 AM
  #677
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Originally Posted by gusfring View Post
Really? My uncle is one of the leading genetics professors in the US.

If I have a question regarding the Human Genome Project, trust me, he's a good resource.
And again, since it is the most important concept I have ever posted here: I look to my professor for questions, not answers.

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12-06-2012, 09:24 AM
  #678
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Originally Posted by gusfring View Post
Regardless, my opinion is that there are about 4-5 too may teams in the NHL that are being helped up by the NHL and the richer teams.

And the revenue streams are not there in this league to support them.
There is a mountain of evidence to the contrary. Most notably the ever increasing total revenue of the NHL.

With each less team you get 82 less games. That's a lot of lost revenue.

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12-06-2012, 09:30 AM
  #679
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I think the earliest games could be played right now would be around January 1st with about a week to get a deal done, 10 days of camp plus 4-5 days for Christmas...maybe December 27th at the earliest. I think the most games they can play is around 50 right now.
You are correct. In fact, if the puck drops Jan 1, we will likely have a 49 game season.

I've been considering this question.

There are, I think, 13 weeks of play availabe Jan 1 to end March. Extend season play to April 15, thus extending PO to end of June. July play is unacceptable. (In fact, June play is unacceptable, which is why season should start last week of September, but that is another story.)

That's 15 weeks of regular season play.

Assume every second week is a 4 game week. Tough, but doable. We're gonna be GDT overwhelmed, as we deserve to be.

That's 3.5 X15 = 52 games available, rounded down 1 game.

Let us see what balanced sched will give us max 52 games:

6X4 division: 24.
10X2 non division in conference: 20
5 against one division in other conference:5

49. No point playing more than that, as you can't add another 2X games against non division in conference teams anyway. You could add 3 more out of conference games I suppose. That may happen. 52 Games.

Therefore, playing in December no longer really matters for inter conference play , because in order to play 4 X, instead of 2X, against each non division conference team, you need to add 20 games:

69. Won't happen. That window is closed.

If they can squeeze in 5 December games, then we'll have a 54 game season:

6X4 Division:24
2X10 non division in conference :20
5 each against 2 divisions in the other conference: 10

54.

Conclusion: 49 or 52 games if Jan 1 start. 54 Games if play starts by Dec 21.


Last edited by bsl: 12-06-2012 at 09:38 AM.
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12-06-2012, 09:51 AM
  #680
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Originally Posted by canadiensnation View Post
Peter Budaj has signed with HC Banska of the Slovak Extraliga.
If the Habs need to find some quick cap space, replacing Budaj with Desjardins could be an easy way to add 500K. With a 50-60 game schedule and Price having not played during the lockout, I wonder how many games the backup will get anyway? 5 at most?

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Old
12-06-2012, 09:55 AM
  #681
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
There is a mountain of evidence to the contrary. Most notably the ever increasing total revenue of the NHL.

With each less team you get 82 less games. That's a lot of lost revenue.
That makes no sense. The increasing revenue of the NHL has nothing to do with Phoenix and Florida.

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12-06-2012, 10:10 AM
  #682
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Originally Posted by gusfring View Post
That makes no sense. The increasing revenue of the NHL has nothing to do with Phoenix and Florida.
You said that the HRR of the league doesn't support the bottom5 teams, when all signs point to increasing viability of those franchises.

I don't like the sunbelt teams either but cutting them out isn't the way to go about things.

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12-06-2012, 10:14 AM
  #683
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I'd like an explanation from PA on why they care so much about the year limit on players contracts when only a handful of players ever get those.. Seems like PA wants a CBA geared for star players

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12-06-2012, 10:37 AM
  #684
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I'd like an explanation from PA on why they care so much about the year limit on players contracts when only a handful of players ever get those.. Seems like PA wants a CBA geared for star players
Well first off a lot of the players that are in the meeting have these insane contracts over 5 yrs. The reason why they want it geared twards star players is because its mostly star players like crosby leading the way with the player/owner meetings. According to Bob Mackenzie the NHL offered $300mil for make whole as well instead of the $211 offered before. The players supposedly took this offer the wrong way and are disgruntled over it. This lock out is happening because of a handful of players with these massive contracts. There is a divide with the players because the ones who have 1-5 yr contracts are likely ok with what the NHL is offering. But again star player ego's and money is holding this process up. Nobody in these meetings care about the fans.

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12-06-2012, 10:54 AM
  #685
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Originally Posted by Jmac1160 View Post
Well first off a lot of the players that are in the meeting have these insane contracts over 5 yrs. The reason why they want it geared twards star players is because its mostly star players like crosby leading the way with the player/owner meetings. According to Bob Mackenzie the NHL offered $300mil for make whole as well instead of the $211 offered before. The players supposedly took this offer the wrong way and are disgruntled over it. This lock out is happening because of a handful of players with these massive contracts. There is a divide with the players because the ones who have 1-5 yr contracts are likely ok with what the NHL is offering. But again star player ego's and money is holding this process up. Nobody in these meetings care about the fans.
I hope you just didn't figure that out

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12-06-2012, 11:21 AM
  #686
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Originally Posted by Jmac1160 View Post
Well first off a lot of the players that are in the meeting have these insane contracts over 5 yrs. The reason why they want it geared twards star players is because its mostly star players like crosby leading the way with the player/owner meetings. According to Bob Mackenzie the NHL offered $300mil for make whole as well instead of the $211 offered before. The players supposedly took this offer the wrong way and are disgruntled over it. This lock out is happening because of a handful of players with these massive contracts. There is a divide with the players because the ones who have 1-5 yr contracts are likely ok with what the NHL is offering. But again star player ego's and money is holding this process up. Nobody in these meetings care about the fans.
Why are you lying?

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Old
12-06-2012, 11:23 AM
  #687
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
You said that the HRR of the league doesn't support the bottom5 teams, when all signs point to increasing viability of those franchises.

I don't like the sunbelt teams either but cutting them out isn't the way to go about things.
i don't think so either, but relocating them to more viable markets is needed. the sports economist i quoted, did not give a solution to the problem, but just stated the problem. Which is that there are teams that have no market, have not been able to grow a viable market, in their tenure, and will most likely not have a viable market in the near future. And state that right now, the solution is to cut some revenue streams to the players, to be able to pay for the speculative market, which has not materialized.

So finding a suitable market for certain teams is of need, if not more revenue sharing will have to go their way (whether it's from the players side, or the more profitable teams side) to keep them operational so they can employ jobs for players and other staff. Of course internal league sharing can increase, so payments by more profitable teams towards those teams increase, but that means your cutting revenues/profits from those teams; which might mean that some teams that are at parity with their profits, might go negative.

So it seems the obvious short term solution for the NHL, until they find real solution for non market teams, is to decrees payroll costs throughout the league. Which is what the economist was pointing out.

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12-06-2012, 11:28 AM
  #688
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Originally Posted by Jmac1160 View Post
Well first off a lot of the players that are in the meeting have these insane contracts over 5 yrs. The reason why they want it geared twards star players is because its mostly star players like crosby leading the way with the player/owner meetings. According to Bob Mackenzie the NHL offered $300mil for make whole as well instead of the $211 offered before. The players supposedly took this offer the wrong way and are disgruntled over it. This lock out is happening because of a handful of players with these massive contracts. There is a divide with the players because the ones who have 1-5 yr contracts are likely ok with what the NHL is offering. But again star player ego's and money is holding this process up. Nobody in these meetings care about the fans.
I also just found an explanation that if HRR goes down means the cap will go down therefore there will be less money to be alocated to UFA's. The thinking is that the star players will still get their share (especially with the 5% variance and short term contracts) meaning their cap hit will be higher. This means the remaining players on market will have less money available to them because of cap.

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12-06-2012, 11:44 AM
  #689
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
And again, since it is the most important concept I have ever posted here: I look to my professor for questions, not answers.
Actually, you should be able to look to your professors for BOTH. Great professors provide amazing and stimulating questions, but can also provide answers that help and guide you in the process to finding your own answers, as well. If you only look to your professors for one or the other, you are not getting your money's worth.

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12-06-2012, 12:51 PM
  #690
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I hope you just didn't figure that out
Sadly for us its not really about the fans either. Besides what does that even mean? Why would any of the two sides back down so we fans can sit down to watch our evening hockey? The stakes are MUCH higher for them. While we lose a form of entertainment, they stand to lose or gain millions and make changes to work contracts.

It really sucks for us, it makes me angry they can't seem to find an agreement faster but we fans are not victims to some unfathomable crime against humanity. NHL hockey is easily replacement entertainment after all, nothing life or death about it. Arena and team employees as well as people who's work and actual life is affected by the lockout (restauration, hotels near NHL arenas) have much, much more to be angry with than fans.

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12-06-2012, 01:10 PM
  #691
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
You are talking about a pseudo professor. Not a teaching professor. Paid by corporations to do research. Fine, I'm sure he's an expert.

I'm not talking about applied science and engineering. These are borderline academic positions and everyone knows it.

I'm talking about liberal arts, mathematics, philosophy and pure science. Not corporate paid applied science.
WTH are you talking about ?

Oh and now the players don't want a 10 years deal they want a 5 years deal and we should love their positions...

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12-06-2012, 01:18 PM
  #692
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I'd like an explanation from PA on why they care so much about the year limit on players contracts when only a handful of players ever get those.. Seems like PA wants a CBA geared for star players
Fehr would not had the guts to make ALL the players vote on the last owner's proposal. I am pretty sure 60 to 75 % of the players would accept it.... maybe not Darche...

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12-06-2012, 01:21 PM
  #693
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Fehr would not had the guts to make ALL the players vote on the last owner's proposal. I am pretty sure 60 to 75 % of the players would accept it.... maybe not Darche...
Yeah some players seems to believe in Fehr like some were believing in Jim Jones...but the majority would sign for this offer.

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12-06-2012, 03:21 PM
  #694
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I dunno how much money Geoff Molson is spending right now on his managing, coaching and scouting staff ?

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Old
12-06-2012, 03:45 PM
  #695
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I dunno how much money Geoff Molson is spending right now on his managing, coaching and scouting staff ?
According to Forbes, the Habs had 169 million in revenue last year, and made a 52 million dollar profit. As player payroll was at around 70 million, that implies over 50 million on other expenses.

Not sure how many of those are ongoing. We know that 3 million is a typical salary for coaches.

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12-06-2012, 04:03 PM
  #696
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oops, doesn't look good.. owners basically walking away again...according to Bob McKenzie they are mostly all gone.

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Old
12-06-2012, 04:04 PM
  #697
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
According to Forbes, the Habs had 169 million in revenue last year, and made a 52 million dollar profit. As player payroll was at around 70 million, that implies over 50 million on other expenses.

Not sure how many of those are ongoing. We know that 3 million is a typical salary for coaches.
Jacques Martin contract was 1,5 million a year with a 500 000 bonus if they were making the playoffs and he was amongst the well paid coaches I think. 3 millions is probably the best a coach can get, not a typical salary.

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12-06-2012, 04:08 PM
  #698
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
According to Forbes, the Habs had 169 million in revenue last year, and made a 52 million dollar profit. As player payroll was at around 70 million, that implies over 50 million on other expenses.

Not sure how many of those are ongoing. We know that 3 million is a typical salary for coaches.
Would be interesting to know the expenses. Were they still paying Carbo?

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Old
12-06-2012, 04:18 PM
  #699
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
According to Forbes, the Habs had 169 million in revenue last year, and made a 52 million dollar profit. As player payroll was at around 70 million, that implies over 50 million on other expenses.

Not sure how many of those are ongoing. We know that 3 million is a typical salary for coaches.
A big chunk of that would be for the rink and gameday staff. Other staff(non game day) would be probably be 5-8 mil.

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12-06-2012, 04:20 PM
  #700
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oops, doesn't look good.. owners basically walking away again...according to Bob McKenzie they are mostly all gone.
I wouldn't read too much into that, some are still around others had business to attend to. Tonight's meeting is mostly Bettman/Daily and the PA brass. Both sides are a bit frustrated but hopefully the differences are not enough to cancel the season.

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