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What would you rather have for your team?

View Poll Results: What would you rather have for your team?
Erik Johnson 107 74.31%
Gustav Nyquist + Brendan Smith + 3rd round pick 37 25.69%
Voters: 144. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-24-2012, 05:37 PM
  #26
Machinehead
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Gonna bump this is a few years when Smith is a #1

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Old
11-24-2012, 06:32 PM
  #27
bp spec
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Erik Johnson

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Old
11-24-2012, 06:48 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockies94 View Post
He's an Avs fan so...
in all fairness 90% of the threads about Johnson are this board are 'look at how much EJ sucks'

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Old
11-24-2012, 07:20 PM
  #29
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Johnson was #2 behind Kyle Quincey in Colorado until Quincey was traded to Detroit via Tampa.

The Detroit depth chart is expected to list a such:

Kronwall
White
Ericsson
Smith
Quincey

Kindl/Colaiacovo

So yeah... I think I'll stick with Nyquist/Smith/pick. Johnson's big advantage is that he has size and better defense than can be expected of Smith. But I'm not willing to toss Smith AND Nyquist for the minimal short-term improvement Johnson brings.

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Old
11-24-2012, 07:32 PM
  #30
falconski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Johnson was #2 behind Kyle Quincey in Colorado until Quincey was traded to Detroit via Tampa.

The Detroit depth chart is expected to list a such:

Kronwall
White
Ericsson
Smith
Quincey

Kindl/Colaiacovo

So yeah... I think I'll stick with Nyquist/Smith/pick. Johnson's big advantage is that he has size and better defense than can be expected of Smith. But I'm not willing to toss Smith AND Nyquist for the minimal short-term improvement Johnson brings.
anybody who thinks quincey was the avs #1 defenseman after the EJ trade has never watched an avs game (he really wasn't before either)...crap it became obvious quincey was being moved when he whined about being benched

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Old
11-24-2012, 07:42 PM
  #31
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Very surprised by the results.

2nd pairing D vs Top 6 forward + top 4 D + 3rd

Easy choice

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Old
11-24-2012, 08:04 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Very surprised by the results.

2nd pairing D vs Top 6 forward + top 4 D + 3rd

Easy choice
2nd pairing D and a top 4 D are the same thing, hahaha.

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Old
11-24-2012, 08:20 PM
  #33
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EJ definetely.

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Old
11-24-2012, 08:29 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoppaForsberg View Post
2nd pairing D and a top 4 D are the same thing, hahaha.
I think Smith has an outside shot at top pair

But yes, so it's an easier choice

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Old
11-24-2012, 08:38 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Johnson was #2 behind Kyle Quincey in Colorado until Quincey was traded to Detroit via Tampa.
Says... who exactly?

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Old
11-24-2012, 08:44 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by falconski View Post
anybody who thinks quincey was the avs #1 defenseman after the EJ trade has never watched an avs game (he really wasn't before either)...crap it became obvious quincey was being moved when he whined about being benched
Quincey was #1 by ice time. He played significant amounts in all situations. That's how you generally define a #1 defenseman on a team, isn't it? Outside of certain exceptions (i.e. Karlsson playing no PK due to 4mins PP and 21mins ES) you don't see a #1 defenseman simply not playing in key situations.

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Old
11-24-2012, 09:06 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
I think Smith has an outside shot at top pair

But yes, so it's an easier choice
And Johnson has a much better chance of being a legit top 2 D, so yes it is.

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Old
11-24-2012, 09:11 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bender View Post
What would you rather have on your team?
I know people are made at the players and all.

But they are still people, not things.

"Whom would you rather have on your team?"

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Old
11-24-2012, 09:12 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Quincey was #1 by ice time. He played significant amounts in all situations. That's how you generally define a #1 defenseman on a team, isn't it? Outside of certain exceptions (i.e. Karlsson playing no PK due to 4mins PP and 21mins ES) you don't see a #1 defenseman simply not playing in key situations.
Sacco played everyone pretty much equally for whatever reason, but quincey was never the go to guy in key situations, he was really nothing more than a decent #3 for us (and always started off hot and finished terrible)

normal defensive pairing was Hannan-O'Byrne, go to guys for the tight situations were EJ and for some reason O'Brien


Last edited by falconski: 11-24-2012 at 09:20 PM.
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Old
11-24-2012, 09:12 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
He posted this to see if other people agreed EJ was worth more than that package. Which it would seem they do, thankfully.
Then why did he ask "What would you rather have for your team"? The results don't represent their value, they represent which you would rather have for YOUR team. Do you think the Flyers would want another young forward and defenseman when their biggest need is an experienced, top pairing D?

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Old
11-24-2012, 09:13 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Quincey was #1 by ice time. He played significant amounts in all situations. That's how you generally define a #1 defenseman on a team, isn't it? Outside of certain exceptions (i.e. Karlsson playing no PK due to 4mins PP and 21mins ES) you don't see a #1 defenseman simply not playing in key situations.
Clearly you didn't watch the games

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Old
11-24-2012, 09:19 PM
  #42
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EJ for me quite easily. Nyquist and Smith in the long run might be great players, but they might be complete flops too. Anything can happen. Johnson is getting better every year too, which sometimes HF likes to forget.

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Old
11-24-2012, 09:58 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13 HockeyTown 40 View Post
Then why did he ask "What would you rather have for your team"? The results don't represent their value, they represent which you would rather have for YOUR team. Do you think the Flyers would want another young forward and defenseman when their biggest need is an experienced, top pairing D?
Are you saying Detroit would rather have a young forward and defenseman rather than a top pairing defender, no names being mentioned? I know it is hard to believe that people place value based on which party they would prefer, but it is common on these forums.

I'm still at a loss for how people can be so misinformed about EJ. The mere fact someone would believe Quincey was our number one... especially a Detroit fan after witnessing the atrocity that is Kyle Quincey... puts me at a loss for words.

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Old
11-24-2012, 10:08 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qward View Post
I know people are made at the players and all.

But they are still people, not things.

"Whom would you rather have on your team?"
But there is a 3rd round pick in there too, is THAT a person? No, you're right, let's call that "BILLY".

It's God's work you're doing, you know.

[Sorry if you didn't understand my post]

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyMo35 View Post
EJ for me quite easily. Nyquist and Smith in the long run might be great players, but they might be complete flops too. Anything can happen. Johnson is getting better every year too, which sometimes HF likes to forget.
THIS. It's unfathomable to me why so many people who keep arguing this point just can't come to grips with THIS EXACT POST.

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Old
11-24-2012, 10:10 PM
  #45
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In 2011-12, Quincey averaged 22:21 for the Avs. Johnson 20:50.... So technically Quincey was the #1.

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Old
11-24-2012, 10:14 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Are you saying Detroit would rather have a young forward and defenseman rather than a top pairing defender, no names being mentioned? I know it is hard to believe that people place value based on which party they would prefer, but it is common on these forums.

I'm still at a loss for how people can be so misinformed about EJ. The mere fact someone would believe Quincey was our number one... especially a Detroit fan after witnessing the atrocity that is Kyle Quincey... puts me at a loss for words.
Complain to the coaching staff that put him out there for 22 minutes per night. Personally I consider him the 6th-best defenseman on the Wings behind Kronwall/White/Ericsson/Smith/Kindl, but Colorado's coaching staff clearly felt he was #1 on the roster. Quincey played over 20 minutes almost every single game. Johnson played under 20 in quite a few.

Johnson may be better than Quincey. I will admit that I didn't see him enough to commit a judgement between the two. But from what I did see, it's close. And from what the coaching staff in Colorado thought, having Quincey on the ice was more likely to help the team win than having Johnson on the ice during the period both were with the team. Granted, they did play a decent amount together.

But the ultimate point is this: Johnson isn't a significant distance better than Quincey, if at all. Smith is better than Quincey, even if not significantly.

What this means: If the slim margins of "better than Quincey" do end up with Johnson ahead of Smith, it's not by much. Certainly not by Nyquist+pick. It's rough to even argue that Johnson is Nyquist+pick better than Colaiacovo.

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Old
11-24-2012, 10:15 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by MattyMo35 View Post
EJ for me quite easily. Nyquist and Smith in the long run might be great players, but they might be complete flops too. Anything can happen. Johnson is getting better every year too, which sometimes HF likes to forget.
Johnson is NOT a top pair D at the moment. He simply isn't. Otherwise the Avs would have been much better than they were. He's 2nd pair calibre.

Smith has shown he can play in the NHL. He's minimum 3rd pair at the moment. Minimum. Nyquist is pretty safe to an NHLer too. Whether or not they become legit first line players is the question... and that's a risk I'm willing to take over Erik ''2nd pair'' Johnson.

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Old
11-24-2012, 10:23 PM
  #48
Lonewolfe2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
In 2011-12, Quincey averaged 22:21 for the Avs. Johnson 20:50.... So technically Quincey was the #1.
EJ averaged 21.5 while Quincey was on the team and nearly 23 minutes per game before getting injured. So technically and realistically, EJ was the #1. This being in Sacco's timeshare TOI program where he runs around during games dolling out icetime like he's Oprah ("And you get 20 minutes, you get 20 minutes...") makes it a bigger deal.

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Old
11-24-2012, 10:27 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bender View Post
But there is a 3rd round pick in there too, is THAT a person? No, you're right, let's call that "BILLY".

It's God's work you're doing, you know.

[Sorry if you didn't understand my post]
Actually, a draft is used for the selection of a prospect.
So, a "3rd round pick" is an undetermined player.
Therefore they are still a person, not a thing. You are still incorrect.

I did understand your post.

Glad you attempted to mock me. Worked out well.

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Old
11-24-2012, 10:33 PM
  #50
WhiteLight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
EJ averaged 21.5 while Quincey was on the team and nearly 23 minutes per game before getting injured. So technically and realistically, EJ was the #1. This being in Sacco's timeshare TOI program where he runs around during games dolling out icetime like he's Oprah ("And you get 20 minutes, you get 20 minutes...") makes it a bigger deal.
Source?

He must have been under 15 for the rest of the season... and according to you his minutes went down when Quincey was gone? That makes no sense.

Irregardless, doesn't sound like a top pairing guy to me. No matter dumb your coach is, if a guy is a legit top pair, he won't give 20 min to everyone like Sacco did.

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