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Free Agent Frenzy Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Vancouver proposals(Florida, Winnipeg)

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Old
11-24-2012, 02:07 AM
  #1
shortshorts
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Vancouver proposals(Florida, Winnipeg)

I'd like to ask the fans of the respective teams to answer if the value is close at all. I'm likely completely off, but there's nothing else to do in this Lockout.

Trade1: Luongo + Connauton + Sweatt + 2nd in 2014 for Theodore + Kulikov + 4th in 2014

Trade2: Kesler*, Alberts for Bogosian, Little

Any thoughts on value?

*Assume a healthy Kesler

Edit: I'm looking for the opinions of other fans. I already know many Canuck fans disagree about my views on Kesler.


Last edited by shortshorts: 11-24-2012 at 03:05 AM.
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Old
11-24-2012, 02:20 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shortshorts View Post
I'd like to ask the fans of the respective teams to answer if the value is close at all. I'm likely completely off, but there's nothing else to do in this Lockout.

Trade1: Luongo + Connauton + Sweatt + 2nd in 2014 for Theodore + Kulikov + 4th in 2014

Trade2: Kesler*, Alberts for Bogosian, Little

Any thoughts on value?

*Assume a healthy Kesler
As an outside observer (aka: not a fan of either team), I'm going to say -

Trade 1: Hell no. Kulikov has a MUCH higher value to a franchise like Florida than Luongo ever could hope to. Entry level deal, potential franchise defenceman, they control his "cheap" years... for a budget team, it's a wet dream scenario. If Florida wanted to pay a goalie over $5mil/year, they'd have either kept Vokoun, OR replaced him with another $5+mil goaltender. They're clearly waiting on Markstrom, and Luongo completely blocks that path.

Trade 2: Bogosian + Little have more combined value than Kesler + Alberts. But it's closer than Trade 1 was in value, so it at least has that going for it.

It's funny how much difference a year makes: had you proposed this deal at the beginning of last season, many would have thought that Kesler was a huge overpayment. By the end of the year, however, it's the Bogo+Little package that is slightly an overpayment.

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Old
11-24-2012, 02:32 AM
  #3
shortshorts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
As an outside observer (aka: not a fan of either team), I'm going to say -

Trade 1: Hell no. Kulikov has a MUCH higher value to a franchise like Florida than Luongo ever could hope to. Entry level deal, potential franchise defenceman, they control his "cheap" years... for a budget team, it's a wet dream scenario. If Florida wanted to pay a goalie over $5mil/year, they'd have either kept Vokoun, OR replaced him with another $5+mil goaltender. They're clearly waiting on Markstrom, and Luongo completely blocks that path.

Trade 2: Bogosian + Little have more combined value than Kesler + Alberts. But it's closer than Trade 1 was in value, so it at least has that going for it.

It's funny how much difference a year makes: had you proposed this deal at the beginning of last season, many would have thought that Kesler was a huge overpayment. By the end of the year, however, it's the Bogo+Little package that is slightly an overpayment.
I agree.

Given your input, I do think if tweaks were made to the second proposal, it can make it a viable trade in terms of value.

I also see your point about Kulikov. I assumed, since Kulikov is an RFA and was asking for a substantial raise. Therefore, my reasoning was if the salaries ended up being equal in the trade, the Panthers would value Luongo's abilities more than Kulikov's to get them to the playoffs.

Thanks for the input, though!

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Old
11-24-2012, 02:33 AM
  #4
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I dont think Panthers accept.
Theodore is playing good for them, Kulikov is their future in the blue line

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Old
11-24-2012, 02:53 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTricK09 View Post
I dont think Panthers accept.
Theodore is playing good for them, Kulikov is their future in the blue line
How about we go

Sweatt ----> Schroeder
2014 2nd ----> 2014 1st

That make much of a difference at all?

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Old
11-24-2012, 03:03 AM
  #6
Socratic Method Man
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shortshorts View Post
I'd like to ask the fans of the respective teams to answer if the value is close at all. I'm likely completely off, but there's nothing else to do in this Lockout.

Trade1: Luongo + Connauton + Sweatt + 2nd in 2014 for Theodore + Kulikov + 4th in 2014

Trade2: Kesler*, Alberts for Bogosian, Little

Any thoughts on value?

*Assume a healthy Kesler
What the hell? We need Kesler - he is our second line. We can't let him go.

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Old
11-24-2012, 03:05 AM
  #7
shortshorts
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Originally Posted by Socratic Method Man View Post
What the hell? We need Kesler - he is our second line. We can't let him go.
See my edit.

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Old
11-24-2012, 03:07 AM
  #8
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Originally Posted by shortshorts View Post
See my edit.
I find your edit oppressive.

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Old
11-24-2012, 03:52 AM
  #9
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Originally Posted by Socratic Method Man View Post
I find your edit oppressive.
Not to mention our depth at center would be non-existent. Trading Kesler without getting back a better center would be idiotic, but shortshorts has his reasons. If he could find a way to pull off my suggestion, I would be more peachy about all this. If not, all it's doing is setting us back five years.

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Old
11-24-2012, 04:21 AM
  #10
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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
Trade 2: Bogosian + Little have more combined value than Kesler + Alberts. But it's closer than Trade 1 was in value, so it at least has that going for it.
Not to the Canucks they don't. Cup contending teams don't trade away their best players for downgrades..

some people (including Canuck fans) have no clue how good Kesler is. It amazes me.

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Old
11-24-2012, 04:48 AM
  #11
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No chance Florida even considers this proposal. Lou is not even close to being worth Kulikov, and the rest Vancouver gives up is nothing of value.

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Old
11-24-2012, 04:56 AM
  #12
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Not gonna happen from a Jets perspective. Bogo is too important to us. He's part of our future and a big part of our current core. Little holds value to our current team and could eventually be moved to the wing, once Scheifele or Burmistrov are ready to take over at center. While I think Kesler has a good skill set, I personally don't like his antics when it comes to diving on the ice. Alberts holds zero value to the Jets. This is an easy pass for us.


Last edited by Paradise: 11-24-2012 at 05:22 AM.
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Old
11-24-2012, 05:18 AM
  #13
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WPG says thanks but no thanks. We've seen a lot worse for Bogo, but we aren't willing to trade him. Seriously, jets fans value him like a young chris pronger/zdeno chara, so that's what you should expect jets fans to want in return. However, I could see a WPG Vancouver deal involving something like Raymond for Antropov...

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Old
11-24-2012, 05:26 AM
  #14
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The 2nd trade doesnt fit either team, the canucks are competing now and will not give up thier 40goal/selke center. Winnipeg is building a team and will not give up their best young dman. My guess is the Jets are trying to build a team around Bogo/Enström/Kane.

Im guessing Florida doesnt want to move Kulikov, especially since they lost Garrison this off season. Connatoun and Sweatt does nothing for Florida they have much better prospects.

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11-24-2012, 05:46 AM
  #15
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Nobody even blinked when you brought up Kevin Connauton's name. And that's what happens when you are just looking for the input of outsiders. They don't know the franchise prospect list like they should, but it's not their team so I wouldn't expect them to. Connauton's not a throw-in in my books and I actually have decent expectations of Sweatt as well.

Kulikov aside, the big hold up with Florida, as was already mentioned, is the fact that they are grooming Markstrom. They are one year away from being in the same situation as the Canucks are with an emerging Schneider.

As for the Winnipeg trade, Kesler isn't the guy he was a year ago, but if he was he would be worth more than Little and Bogosian on his own. Alberts is worth less in a trade than a bag of pucks, but maybe you just want to get rid of him as badly as I do.

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11-24-2012, 05:57 AM
  #16
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Quote:
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Im guessing Florida doesnt want to move Kulikov, especially since they lost Garrison this off season. Connatoun and Sweatt does nothing for Florida they have much better prospects.
Not on D, they don't!

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11-24-2012, 07:53 AM
  #17
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Originally Posted by Statsy View Post
Not on D, they don't!
I'd say Petrovic is a better prospect.

Also, I'd also say that putting all their goaltending eggs in the Markstrom basket may be disastrous. That being said, giving up Kulikov is highly unlikely as they can rely on Theodore for now and see how things go with Markstrom (which is not well for now in the A).

Also, if the Canucks were willing to give up Kesler for a d-man, they probably could have gotten Weber for him last year (with the right to negotiate with and sign Weber prior to the trade). It just doesn't make sense because Kesler is the Canucks secondary scoring...the team needs to trade a LD for a RD not their secondary scoring for a RD.

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Old
11-24-2012, 08:15 AM
  #18
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Not on D, they don't!
We do for sure, we got Petrovic and Robak, and Matheson coming in a few years.

And we got young core defensemen in Kulikov and Gudbranson.

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Old
11-24-2012, 09:10 AM
  #19
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Trade 1: HELL NO! Florida has a damn good up and coming goalie in the wings and Jose has played well for them. Why on earth are they going to give up the best d-man they've got as well?

Trade 2: HELL NO! Little is an important part of their team and Boogosian is their best defenseman. Kesler is a good overall 2nd line center, but he's no first line center.

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11-24-2012, 09:15 AM
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Trade 1: HELL NO! Florida has a damn good up and coming goalie in the wings and Jose has played well for them. Why on earth are they going to give up the best d-man they've got as well?

Trade 2: HELL NO! Little is an important part of their team and Boogosian is their best defenseman. Kesler is a good overall 2nd line center, but he's no first line center.

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11-24-2012, 10:23 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Statsy View Post
Nobody even blinked when you brought up Kevin Connauton's name. And that's what happens when you are just looking for the input of outsiders. They don't know the franchise prospect list like they should, but it's not their team so I wouldn't expect them to. Connauton's not a throw-in in my books and I actually have decent expectations of Sweatt as well.

Kulikov aside, the big hold up with Florida, as was already mentioned, is the fact that they are grooming Markstrom. They are one year away from being in the same situation as the Canucks are with an emerging Schneider.

As for the Winnipeg trade, Kesler isn't the guy he was a year ago, but if he was he would be worth more than Little and Bogosian on his own. Alberts is worth less in a trade than a bag of pucks, but maybe you just want to get rid of him as badly as I do.
What can you expect from Panthers fans? Both of those are horrible for the Canucks.

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Old
11-24-2012, 10:27 AM
  #22
Mitts McCann
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Originally Posted by thadd View Post
Trade 1: HELL NO! Florida has a damn good up and coming goalie in the wings and Jose has played well for them. Why on earth are they going to give up the best d-man they've got as well?

Trade 2: HELL NO! Little is an important part of their team and Boogosian is their best defenseman. Kesler is a good overall 2nd line center, but he's no first line center.
Kesler is a first line center Because he had an injury riddled season he's forgotten? He's a dominant player when healthy in all three zones. One of the best two way centers in the game.....That's hilarious. Little and Bogosian are not worth Kesler pull your head out of your ass. As for the Florida trade. The Canucks are giving up signifigant value even other than Luongo. Connauton is our best offensive defenseman coming up. Sweatt is one of the fastest players in the ahl and a 2nd? Than throw in one of the best goalies in the league? That's a joke. For an unproven up and coming defenseman who'd be on our third pair?

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Old
11-24-2012, 11:05 AM
  #23
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I don't think any of the teams would do any of these trades. Kulikov would be an awesome piece, but unless he can play right D, we literally cannot take him on.

And a contending team isn't going to trade their Selke winning centre for a downgrade and a player being valued on potential(however good that is).

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Old
11-24-2012, 11:07 AM
  #24
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Yes to the first one, no to the second one. The second one's value isn't bad, but we would be insanely weak for both centre and forward depth if we traded Kesler.

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Old
11-24-2012, 12:49 PM
  #25
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We're not even close to givin up our guys for Kesler.
Sorry.

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