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Old
12-09-2012, 09:39 PM
  #376
Bomber0104
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
I agree, you don't build a team around Grabovski. That means nothing. You never build your team around every top-6 forward.

Playoffs are not irrelevant, but whether a player has played in them or not is, and has no connection to how good of a player they are.

There is nobody else who is telling me your insane theories. Just you and your dog. In fact, look back and see everybody else was trying to knock some sense out of you and just gave up because you're obviously too stubborn to comprehend reality or just trolling.

Once again, either prove Grabovski is not a top-6 forward on a contending team, or GTFO. Simple.
Why are you so pissed off and why are you calling me a dog? And you call someone else a troll? Get the **** out of here.

Your opinion on Grabovski is just an opinion and to be honest makes no sense when you hold a light to it and use facts.

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12-09-2012, 09:42 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
That is not logic. Like not in a logical sentence is wrong kind of way. It's simply not logic. There is no connecting point. It is actually kind of funny that you think it is.
Grabovski is on a bad team (Leafs).

He is the second line centre, not the first. The second.

If he was a on a good team, he still would not be a first line centre, and also not a second line centre. If he was on a contending team, he absolutely would not be a first line centre and definitely not a second line centre. Teams strive to be contenders. The Leafs strive to be contenders. If the Leafs want to be contenders, Grabovski won't be on the first or second line.

Nothing wrong with that position at all.

But if you'd rather just troll people about an argument in semantics and not facts, go for it.

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12-09-2012, 09:43 PM
  #378
Duke Silver
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Grabovski is not a top 6 forward on even a good team because he is currently a top 6 forward on a bad team (that's the opposite of a contending team for your information).
There are 180 top-6 forwards in the NHL.

Grabovski placed 88th among them in scoring. He placed tied for 30th among centers.

The previous year, he was even better.

If "Grabovski is not a top-6 forward on even a good team", then by your logic he's not a #2C on a good team. I'd hate to know what you think of Ryan Kesler, Jeff Skinner, Mike Richards, Paul Stastny, David Backes: all centers who had a worse points-per-game average than Grabovski last season and all of whom played on superior teams. Hell, Ryan Getzlaf had a 69.5% to Grabo's 69%.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying Grabovski is better than those players. I'm just showing how incredibly simplistic and lacking in context your argument is. Grabovski produces at a top-6 level despite the quality of his team.

I mean, even if you only count centers on playoff teams, Grabovski comes in 20th out of 32 hypothetical top-6 centers for 16 playoff teams.

Point being, you should probably come up with a better explanation for why Grabovski isn't a #2C on a good team.

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12-09-2012, 09:44 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Why are you so pissed off and why are you calling me a dog? And you call someone else a troll? Get the **** out of here.

Your opinion on Grabovski is just an opinion and to be honest makes no sense when you hold a light to it and use facts.
Sidney Crosby was once the second-line center on a bad team.

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12-09-2012, 09:45 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
Once again, either prove Grabovski is not a top-6 forward on a contending team, or GTFO. Simple.
I have, which you have decided to ignore, an argument substantiated with multiple sets of facts and examples. Seems to me the onus is for you to disprove it, where you have failed miserably.

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12-09-2012, 09:45 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
There are 180 top-6 forwards in the NHL.

Grabovski placed 88th among them in scoring. He placed tied for 30th among centers.

The previous year, he was even better.

If "Grabovski is not a top-6 forward on even a good team", then by your logic he's not a #2C on a good team. I'd hate to know what you think of Ryan Kesler, Jeff Skinner, Mike Richards, Paul Stastny, David Backes: all centers who had a worse points-per-game average than Grabovski last season and all of whom played on superior teams. Hell, Ryan Getzlaf had a 69.5% to Grabo's 69%.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying Grabovski is better than those players. I'm just showing how incredibly simplistic and lacking in context your argument is. Grabovski produces at a top-6 level despite the quality of his team.

I mean, even if you only count centers on playoff teams, Grabovski comes in 20th out of 32 hypothetical top-6 centers for 16 playoff teams.

Point being, you should probably come up with a better explanation for why Grabovski isn't a #2C on a good team.
Well we can go through the depth charts of all of last year's playoff teams if you want?

Those are both contenders and good teams.

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12-09-2012, 09:45 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Grabovski is on a bad team (Leafs).

He is the second line centre, not the first. The second.

If he was a on a good team, he still would not be a first line centre, and also not a second line centre.

Nothing wrong with that position at all.

But if you'd rather just troll people about an argument in semantics and not facts, go for it.
Technically Grabovski is the first line center, playing on the second line. But whatever, we will go by your twisted logic.

Say he is the 2nd-line center. There is no connecting reason for you to logically say that being a 2nd-line center on a bad team makes you incapable of being a top-6 center, or top-6 forward on a contending team.

You have made a link in your head. But there is no logical link present.

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12-09-2012, 09:46 PM
  #383
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Originally Posted by Frank Stallone View Post
Sidney Crosby was once the second-line center on a bad team.
Grabo > Crosby or Grabo = Crosby

The insane backing the insane. One thing is for sure, you Grabo enablers get sillier by the second.

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12-09-2012, 09:47 PM
  #384
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I have, which you have decided to ignore, an argument substantiated with multiple sets of facts and examples. Seems to me the onus is for you to disprove it, where you have failed miserably.
No you haven't. Show me.

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12-09-2012, 09:47 PM
  #385
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Grabo > Crosby or Granbo = Crosby

The insane backing the insane. One thing is for sure, you Grabo enablers get sillier by the second.
That is not even close to what he said.

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12-09-2012, 09:49 PM
  #386
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
No you haven't. Show me.
I got some advice for you, go read tonight's posts.

I spent more than enough time on your world of hockey hypotheticals, non substantiated what if scenarios already.

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12-09-2012, 09:50 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I got some advice for you, go read tonights posts.

I spent more than enough time on your world of hockey hypothetical, non substantiated what if scenarios already.
I have read every post and there is no proof. Show me or GTFO.

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12-09-2012, 09:52 PM
  #388
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
Technically Grabovski is the first line center, playing on the second line. But whatever, we will go by your twisted logic.

Say he is the 2nd-line center. There is no connecting reason for you to logically say that being a 2nd-line center on a bad team makes you incapable of being a top-6 center, or top-6 forward on a contending team.

You have made a link in your head. But there is no logical link present.
Because teams have got themselves into contention by having better centre depth than Grabovski.

You seem to think teams win and lose irrespective of who they put on the ice.

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12-09-2012, 09:53 PM
  #389
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Because teams have got themselves into contention by having better centre depth than Grabovski.

You seem to think teams win and lose irrespective of who they put on the ice.
No, teams win and lose based on 19 players, not 1 (a #2 center no less).

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12-09-2012, 09:54 PM
  #390
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Because teams have got themselves into contention by having better centre depth than Grabovski.

You seem to think teams win and lose irrespective of who they put on the ice.
Don't bother, this kid is a lost cause. My advice is to make your point and let him pretend he can't read, because he will not address anything he is presented with cuz he's got nothing.

As you and I know, Grabo is a #2C not even a #1C on a team that finished 25th last season, no one can make a claim he would be a #2C or even a #1C on a better team when the standard here is being better than John Mitchell, Mat Stajan, or Mat Lombardi.

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12-09-2012, 10:00 PM
  #391
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Don't bother, this kid is a lost cause. My advice is to make your point and let him pretend he can't read, because he will not address anything he is presented with cuz he's got nothing.

As you and I know, Grabo is a #2C not even a #1C on a team that finished 25th last season, no one can make a claim he would be a #2C or even a #1C on a better team when the standard here is being better than John Mitchell, Mat Stajan, or Mat Lombardi.
I see only non-playoff teams that Grabovski would have a place on the top six.

I guess some members of this site believe that is the goal.

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12-09-2012, 10:14 PM
  #392
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Either something really weird is going on outside or I can hear the gears in Bomber's head grinding from all the way over here

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12-09-2012, 10:27 PM
  #393
Duke Silver
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Grabovski is not a top 6 forward on even a good team because he is currently a top 6 forward on a bad team (that's the opposite of a contending team for your information).
Terrible, just terrible. The fact Grabovski produces at a top-6 level on a bad team is actually a compliment of his skills, using your logic against you.

I don't even subscribe to that way of thinking but your entire point has so many holes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Well we can go through the depth charts of all of last year's playoff teams if you want?

Those are both contenders and good teams.
Nothing to say about the undisputed top-6 forwards I named who produced at a worse rate than Grabovski? Telling.

You're the one who made the statement about good teams vs. bad teams. Do your own damn research.

I'm sure myself, charliolemieux, bunjay, JKsilverstick will have a field day with it.

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12-09-2012, 10:33 PM
  #394
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Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
Terrible, just terrible. The fact Grabovski produces at a top-6 level on a bad team is actually a compliment of his skills, using your logic against you.
Without the benefit of top linemates or heavy powerplay stat-padding, which is the common 'not as good as his numbers on a bad team' argument.

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12-09-2012, 10:35 PM
  #395
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Produces 50-55 points for a coach where playing defence is not expected is one thing.

Producing 60-65 points on a team that playing defence is not only required but expected. Ie. Boston or LA

Perspective beats silly selective arguing points, especially when this player played in the run and scramble under Wilson the last 4 years. I wonder how many points Kopitar or Richards could have had if they had this system to play under to pad their stats?

On the otherhand wonder how Grabo would play in a system like Torts, Hitch's or Trotts. 40 points if he were lucky.

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12-09-2012, 10:39 PM
  #396
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Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
Terrible, just terrible. The fact Grabovski produces at a top-6 level on a bad team is actually a compliment of his skills, using your logic against you.

I don't even subscribe to that way of thinking but your entire point has so many holes.



Nothing to say about the undisputed top-6 forwards I named who produced at a worse rate than Grabovski? Telling.

You're the one who made the statement about good teams vs. bad teams. Do your own damn research.

I'm sure myself, charliolemieux, bunjay, JKsilverstick will have a field day with it.
There's more to hockey than just scoring points.

For example, winning the hockey games.

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12-09-2012, 10:43 PM
  #397
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
There's more to hockey than just scoring points.

For example, winning the hockey games.
It's the only thing they have, so they cling to it. But what is special about being I think it was 31st in scoring for C's in the NHL? One of the enablers will correct me if this forgettable stat is incorrect.

Being 31st in the NHL in scoring at your position where defending was a foreign concept is nothing to brag about. I love context, these guys like to fool some with stats with zero context. Glad I am here to set them right.

Mike Fisher was 30th, I'd take him and his intangibles over Grabo anyday.

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12-09-2012, 10:44 PM
  #398
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
So your whole argument is based on ifs, and your opinion.

Justified how? How is Grabo a #1 or #2 C on every team in the NHL? I wonder if you actually believe what you write when Pittsburg has Crosby and Malkin, is Grabo going to ask Bysma to replace one of them on the top 2 lines? A guy that has not played one NHL playoff game. Got that, never played in one NHL playoff game at nearing the ripe age of 29.

Changing the goalposts is stating Grabo could have been a top 6 fwd on any of the cup winners we have been discussing, when you know fair well he is a center.

You are spinning bro, maybe you should just bow out of this discussion. Grasping at straws does not a point make.
You should stop pinging yourself in the head as it's compromising your reading comprehension skills. He clearly states that Grabo could be a top 6 forward, not just a top 6 center.

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12-09-2012, 10:45 PM
  #399
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It's the only thing they have, so they cling to it. But what is special about being I think it was 45th in scoring for C's in the NHL? One of the enablers will correct me if this forgettable stat is incorrect.

Being 45th in the NHL in scoring at your position where defending was a foreign concept is nothing to brag about. I love context, these guys like to fool some with stats with zero context. Glad I am here to set them right.
The reason the Leafs are always so surprisingly bad is because fans fall in love with losers and crown them kings of the league.

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12-09-2012, 10:45 PM
  #400
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Was that my entire argument?

I gather you know it isn't. If you don't know by now, you are surely lost. I don't draw diagrams. But I will give you some credit you know my arguments. If not you should by now or maybe you are indeed lost.
The way you've been cryin about it it sure as hell seems like it is.

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