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Old
12-11-2012, 01:12 AM
  #501
Bomber0104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimyrmidon View Post
This discussion has been so intense that I wonder what fans from other teams would think on this matter. This is assuming that posters here would accept that others probably haven't seen Grabovski nearly as much as those who follow the Leafs closely.

So... Would you take Plekanec or Grabovski? Pleks is seen by Habs fans as a #2C on a Cup contending team. I'm guessing Pleks is someone that people here have seen a reasonable amount of times.
I take Plekanec because he's a good defensive player with offence too. They arent far off.

Grabovski is the most overrated "defensive" centerman that doesn't kill penalties ive ever heard of...

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12-11-2012, 01:29 AM
  #502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimyrmidon View Post
This discussion has been so intense that I wonder what fans from other teams would think on this matter. This is assuming that posters here would accept that others probably haven't seen Grabovski nearly as much as those who follow the Leafs closely.

So... Would you take Plekanec or Grabovski? Pleks is seen by Habs fans as a #2C on a Cup contending team. I'm guessing Pleks is someone that people here have seen a reasonable amount of times.
Plekanec is the better player IMO. I think he's far better defensively and makes those around him better, more well-rounded a player.

Grabovski was someone I wanted GONE. But two years ago, he really emerged as a player and although he wasn't as great last year, he still had a pretty good season. I think he's ill-suited as a centre, he doesn't see the ice well, poor vision for a player. But he's got more pure offensive skills than Plekanec, he's more dangerous off the rush and can generate offense on his own, where Plekanec cannot. Grabo can be more of an impact player on the ice when he's on his game.

I'd still take Plekanec though.

Grabo's got himself a nice contract but I think Burke was out of options. Though he makes far more than many here would pay, at least he works hard out there and can be pretty effective in the right role.

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12-11-2012, 02:00 AM
  #503
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I think if you put a solid skating, pass first center, with Grabo on the wing, everyone would look at Grabo's contributions in a different way.

Just sayin.

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12-11-2012, 02:02 AM
  #504
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
I think if you put a solid skating, pass first center, with Grabo on the wing, everyone would look at Grabo's contributions in a different way.

Just sayin.
If you had two centers on one line? Huh?

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12-11-2012, 02:05 AM
  #505
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Originally Posted by jedimyrmidon View Post
This discussion has been so intense that I wonder what fans from other teams would think on this matter.
Bomber did that to try and prove us wrong, and it backfired entirely when the overwhelming consensus was that Grabovski can be a #2 center on a contending team (despite bias wording of the question, ballot-stuffing by the creator and his minions, and leaf haters voting no regardless of their opinion).

It currently stands at 90 yes, 41 no, and 20 yes on everybody but the cup-winner. The posts on the thread show even more, with essentially all except Bomber's and Interactif's posts saying yes.

For the record, Plekanec is as well.

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12-11-2012, 02:16 AM
  #506
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Leafs fans stuffed the ballot box as Ive already pointed out so its completely biased in favor of the Leafs player which is why I asked for JUST non-Leafs fans to vote.

Removing the biased Leafs ticket yields a majority saying Grabovski is NOT a top six center on a team with Cup aspirations.

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12-11-2012, 02:33 AM
  #507
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Honestly like half the votes are from biased leafs fans.

Im reading a lot of Kulemons and Bozaks and people like that.

Skewed results.
Have you seen the people posting there? A lot of fans from different teams praising him.

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12-11-2012, 02:35 AM
  #508
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Originally Posted by The Blue Devil View Post
Have you seen the people posting there? A lot of fans from different teams praising him.
Yeah but Ive checked out a lot of the actually votes and a HUGE portion of the YES's are from LEAFS FANS.

That means the results are skewed with biased Leafs boosters.

When stricken from the record, we see that unbiased fans of other teams have voted no.

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12-11-2012, 02:35 AM
  #509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimyrmidon View Post
This discussion has been so intense that I wonder what fans from other teams would think on this matter. This is assuming that posters here would accept that others probably haven't seen Grabovski nearly as much as those who follow the Leafs closely.

So... Would you take Plekanec or Grabovski? Pleks is seen by Habs fans as a #2C on a Cup contending team. I'm guessing Pleks is someone that people here have seen a reasonable amount of times.
As a Leaf fan I take Grabo, but can say that Plek definitely could be a valuable #2 on a contending team. Awesome player.

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12-11-2012, 02:39 AM
  #510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Yeah but Ive checked out a lot of the actually votes and a HUGE portion of the YES's are from LEAFS FANS.

That means the results are skewed with biased Leafs boosters.

When stricken from the record, we see that unbiased fans of other teams have voted no.
So you're saying that actual opinions from other fans mean nothing, but a plain stat is everything?

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12-11-2012, 02:41 AM
  #511
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Originally Posted by The Blue Devil View Post
So you're saying that actual opinions from other fans mean nothing, but a plain stat is everything?
Sure some other fans said yes, but when the biased Leafs boosters votes are eliminated, we see that more other fans vote no than yes.

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12-11-2012, 02:48 AM
  #512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Yeah but Ive checked out a lot of the actually votes and a HUGE portion of the YES's are from LEAFS FANS.

That means the results are skewed with biased Leafs boosters.

When stricken from the record, we see that unbiased fans of other teams have voted no.
And you know that means they would not trade our elite "gamebreaker" (playmaker+sniper) for the more defensive minded Bergeron?

Voting "No" means we keep Kessel.

I voted Hell No.

edit: Holy crap am I in the wrong thread.

Regardless.....

are you trying to tell me that is you put Horton and Lucic on Grabo's Wings that wouldn't be a valid 2nd line on a Cup winner?


Last edited by charliolemieux: 12-11-2012 at 02:54 AM.
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12-11-2012, 04:32 AM
  #513
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Leafs fans stuffed the ballot box as Ive already pointed out so its completely biased in favor of the Leafs player which is why I asked for JUST non-Leafs fans to vote.

Removing the biased Leafs ticket yields a majority saying Grabovski is NOT a top six center on a team with Cup aspirations.
Even without Leaf fans, most of which are not bias in their opinions at all, then it is still a majority saying yes. Even without taking out all the bias no votes.

You have no leg to stand on.

Your bad plan backfired. Grabovski can be a #2 center on a contender. You proved it to yourself with your own bad antics.

It is actually quite hilarious.

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12-11-2012, 05:00 AM
  #514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Yeah but Ive checked out a lot of the actually votes and a HUGE portion of the YES's are from LEAFS FANS.

That means the results are skewed with biased Leafs boosters.

When stricken from the record, we see that unbiased fans of other teams have voted no.
This would be the first time in HFBoards main board HISTORY that a Leafs based poll had a positive outcome.

Admit it, you've been thoroughly shot down by Leafs fans AND other fans. If the poll had turned out negative you would have turned around and used it to supplement your argument. Too bad.

I swear this is the only fanbase where its fans will try to convince fans from other fanbases about their own players being terrible.

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12-11-2012, 05:21 AM
  #515
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Habs fan here,

Grabovski can be a 2nd line center on a contending team.

He's also good enough offensively that he can be 1st line center for 20 or 30 games in case of injury without a catastrophic collapse taking place.

I'll point out that Daniel Briere is a 2nd line center on a contending team. In the past three seasons he has 53, 68, and 49 points in 75, 77, and 70 games; with a higher cap hit, a similar goals to assists ratio, and better linemates than Grabovski.

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12-11-2012, 05:21 AM
  #516
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Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
This would be the first time in HFBoards main board HISTORY that a Leafs based poll had a positive outcome.

Admit it, you've been thoroughly shot down by Leafs fans AND other fans. If the poll had turned out negative you would have turned around and used it to supplement your argument. Too bad.

I swear this is the only fanbase where its fans will try to convince fans from other fanbases about their own players being terrible.
If you count the non-leaf fans, the poll is a NO for Grabovski.

I just think people overrate the losers that have been mainstays on the 5th last, 9th last, 2nd last, 5th last Leafs......seems other NON BIASED FANS agree with me to!

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12-11-2012, 05:27 AM
  #517
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Habs fan here,

Grabovski can be a 2nd line center on a contending team.

He's also good enough offensively that he can be 1st line center for 20 or 30 games in case of injury without a catastrophic collapse taking place.

I'll point out that Daniel Briere is a 2nd line center on a contending team. In the past three seasons he has 53, 68, and 49 points in 75, 77, and 70 games; with a higher cap hit, a similar goals to assists ratio, and better linemates than Grabovski.
How dare you bring common sense to this board?

Good god do you know what will happen if you start posting facts?

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12-11-2012, 05:29 AM
  #518
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
If you count the non-leaf fans, the poll is a NO for Grabovski.

I just think people overrate the losers that have been mainstays on the 5th last, 9th last, 2nd last, 5th last Leafs......seems other NON BIASED FANS agree with me to!
Pure smear campaign. And also a total fabrication. Clearly you haven't read the entire thread, which has plenty of fans from other fanbases saying "Yes". We have Habs fans coming on our own boards to shoot you down, for Christ's sake.

"You don't agree with me so you're biased" is the ultimate last resort for someone with nothing left to their argument.

Game. Set. Match.

Towel, please.

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12-11-2012, 05:35 AM
  #519
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Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
Pure smear campaign. And also a total fabrication. Clearly you haven't read the entire thread, which has plenty of fans from other fanbases saying "Yes". We have Habs fans coming on our own boards to shoot you down, for Christ's sake.

"You don't agree with me so you're biased" is the ultimate last resort for someone with nothing left to their argument.

Game. Set. Match.

Towel, please.
Yes but if you count up all the non Leafs fans votes then my point is validated by the majority.

The Leafs fans stuffed the ballot and skewed the results. Yourself included. You voted despite me asking for NON LEAFS FANS. You're guilty of it yourself.

Only one Leafs fan (Terrence....thanks by the way) gave his opinion in the thread without voting in the poll that wasn't intended for him, acknowledging that his bias will skew the results. That's exactly what I was trying to avoid.

You're advocating skewed results. I prefer unbiased samples.

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12-11-2012, 05:45 AM
  #520
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Yes but if you count up all the non Leafs fans votes then my point is validated by the majority.

The Leafs fans stuffed the ballot and skewed the results. Yourself included. You voted despite me asking for NON LEAFS FANS. You're guilty of it yourself.

Only one Leafs fan (Terrence....thanks by the way) gave his opinion in the thread without voting in the poll that wasn't intended for him, acknowledging that his bias will skew the results. That's exactly what I was trying to avoid.

You're advocating skewed results. I prefer unbiased samples.
Ya an the Republicans stuffed the ballot box in 2000.

Rock on man. Your fun.

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12-11-2012, 06:09 AM
  #521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Yes but if you count up all the non Leafs fans votes then my point is validated by the majority.

The Leafs fans stuffed the ballot and skewed the results. Yourself included. You voted despite me asking for NON LEAFS FANS. You're guilty of it yourself.

Only one Leafs fan (Terrence....thanks by the way) gave his opinion in the thread without voting in the poll that wasn't intended for him, acknowledging that his bias will skew the results. That's exactly what I was trying to avoid.

You're advocating skewed results. I prefer unbiased samples.
Go ahead and count up the Leafs fans votes and provide me with a tally to support your statement.

I voted because I enjoy messing with you. And also because that question was created to make people think negatively. Also factor in the people who initially said no but said after thinking about it they would have changed their votes.

Again, it would be one of the first times EVER that a Leafs poll turned out positive. For every "biased" Leafs fan you have a "biased" Leaf-hater on the main boards. How long have you been around here?

UNBIASED SAMPLES? Don't even try to put statistical relevance concepts on me. You cherry-picked 170 minutes of time Kessel and Grabovski spent together to form inferences about how well they played together!

You are a walking, talking contradiction. Hilarious.

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12-11-2012, 10:54 AM
  #522
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In terms of offensive abilities, I think Grabovski definitely compares well to other #2Cs (with the exception of teams like Pittsburgh with Malkin or Tampa with Lecavalier). As someone pointed out earlier, he puts up similar point totals to Daniel Briere during the regular season. I do have to point out though that Briere is known for putting up a lot of points during the playoffs, something that not all players are capable of (i.e. elevating their game during the playoffs).

While Grabovski doesn't shy away from anything, I don't see him as a defensive/shutdown player despite his decent +/- stats. I'm not sure what competition he regularly faces. I'm reading in this thread that he doesn't really play on the PK, something that Plekanec is really good at while also being able to play a shutdown role against the NHL's best.

Against the Habs though, Grabovski always plays with that extra edge... must be holding a grudge or something

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12-11-2012, 11:49 AM
  #523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Yes but if you count up all the non Leafs fans votes then my point is validated by the majority.

The Leafs fans stuffed the ballot and skewed the results. Yourself included. You voted despite me asking for NON LEAFS FANS. You're guilty of it yourself.

Only one Leafs fan (Terrence....thanks by the way) gave his opinion in the thread without voting in the poll that wasn't intended for him, acknowledging that his bias will skew the results. That's exactly what I was trying to avoid.

You're advocating skewed results. I prefer unbiased samples.
I did just that, I added up all the non-Leafs fans votes and subtracted the ones that accidently said no and 'Yes' was still the majority. You say that half was all Leafs fans when in reality it wasn't, it's just you crying about losing. Suck it up princess.

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12-11-2012, 11:50 AM
  #524
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Originally Posted by jedimyrmidon View Post
In terms of offensive abilities, I think Grabovski definitely compares well to other #2Cs (with the exception of teams like Pittsburgh with Malkin or Tampa with Lecavalier). As someone pointed out earlier, he puts up similar point totals to Daniel Briere during the regular season. I do have to point out though that Briere is known for putting up a lot of points during the playoffs, something that not all players are capable of (i.e. elevating their game during the playoffs).

While Grabovski doesn't shy away from anything, I don't see him as a defensive/shutdown player despite his decent +/- stats. I'm not sure what competition he regularly faces. I'm reading in this thread that he doesn't really play on the PK, something that Plekanec is really good at while also being able to play a shutdown role against the NHL's best.

Against the Habs though, Grabovski always plays with that extra edge... must be holding a grudge or something
Grabo didn't get much PK time, but he was put out against the top lines a lot to shut them down.

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02-14-2013, 08:48 PM
  #525
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Mikhail Grabovski...

That offensive drive he's shown in seasons past seems to be missing completely right now. Luckily others have stepped up. This is not the player Burke envisioned when giving out that shiny new contract.

His 5 points came in a 3 game span. Pointless in his last 8 games. I'm guessing it's a slow start, but even then, his game is so far off from what we're used to.

Any reason to be concerned?

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