HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

HeroStats - Grabovski, #1 or #2 C.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-29-2012, 09:44 AM
  #176
Interactif
Registered User
 
Interactif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 30,931
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsman View Post
And if you guys are expecting Grabovski to be a Joe Thornton then give your heads a shake!!! I guess to you guys unless he puts up as many points as a Thornton being on a second line he's not an effective player.

The poster was using players as a benchmark to demonstrate there are area's where Grabs is a good player and not as bad as people make him out to be. Nowhere did he say he was as good as those players!! PP points can inflate/deflate a players stats depending on how much PP time they receive. I think 29 assists for a #2C is very good and that number may have been increased had Kulemin not slumped. I'm not saying Grabo is the best center in the game but he is a very good player and will definitely improve on those numbers. He had his slumps last year and needs to find more consistency for sure but I am positive he will.
Just a clarification, I didn't bring up Joe.

BTW Kule had 30 the year before, and Grabo had 29 assists, he had 28 last year with Kule scoring 7 before he was hurt. Draw your conclusion what Kule means to his stats. Coincidentally that was when Grabo went into one of his unproductive streaks.

Interactif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2012, 10:01 AM
  #177
Leafsman
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,527
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
The guys you mention all bring ALOT more intangibles to the table than Grabo.

Regardless I think you missed the point or chose to ignore it, Grabo's career high in assists is 29. Not a total one would cite as a good playmaker of any renown. Now since you have demonstrated a knack for statistical manipulation. Look up the career high assists for the players you cited as comparables.

You might clue in then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Just a clarification, I didn't bring up Joe.

BTW Kule had 30 the year before, and Grabo had 29 assists, he had 28 last year with Kule scoring 7 before he was hurt. Draw your conclusion what Kule means to his stats. Coincidentally that was when Grabo went into one of his unproductive streaks.
You did suggest looking up their career highs (Joe Thornton being one of them) as if unless Grabo achieves the same numbers he is not an effective player.

Grabo is a very effective #2C and 29 assists while not award-worthy is also not anything to dismiss as the one pointer demonstrated. He has come close to the 60 pt mark the last two seasons and I feel when the 2nd line is finalized with either JVR, Frattin or whomever makes the cut he will certainly surpass that 60 pt marker.

Leafsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2012, 10:08 AM
  #178
Interactif
Registered User
 
Interactif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 30,931
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsman View Post
You did suggest looking up their career highs (Joe Thornton being one of them) as if unless Grabo achieves the same numbers he is not an effective player.

Grabo is a very effective #2C and 29 assists while not award-worthy is also not anything to dismiss as the one pointer demonstrated. He has come close to the 60 pt mark the last two seasons and I feel when the 2nd line is finalized with either JVR, Frattin or whomever makes the cut he will certainly surpass that 60 pt marker.
Again, I didn't bring Joe into the conversation.

When another poster brings up a silly comparison into the conversation, one usually refutes the point if they can, thus it is open for discussion.

Just as you didn't address the fact that Kule with 30 goals or 7 goals had minimal effect on Grabo's assists total, I take this as an admission of a lost point to Grabo enablers.

Interactif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2012, 10:09 AM
  #179
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 56,872
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsman View Post
You did suggest looking up their career highs (Joe Thornton being one of them) as if unless Grabo achieves the same numbers he is not an effective player.

Grabo is a very effective #2C and 29 assists while not award-worthy is also not anything to dismiss as the one pointer demonstrated. He has come close to the 60 pt mark the last two seasons and I feel when the 2nd line is finalized with either JVR, Frattin or whomever makes the cut he will certainly surpass that 60 pt marker.
Grabovski is a 2nd. line center, so for him to be in that category he'd have to be in the top 60.

Is he a top 60 centerman?

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA3LN_8hjM8.

Vaive and Ludzik on collapse, and Phaneuf.
ULF_55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2012, 10:11 AM
  #180
Fogelhund
Registered User
 
Fogelhund's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,138
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Grabovski is a 2nd. line center, so for him to be in that category he'd have to be in the top 60.

Is he a top 60 centerman?
24th in points for all C, over the past two years.


------------------------------------------------------

I like Grabs, and he is a decent #2 C. With a legit #1 C, and a decent #3C who can play up if needed, I think a team could compete with Grabs at #2. My concern with him on the Leafs is questions around his long-term durability. How many times can a body take getting crunched like he does, before he ends up getting hurt, or worn down? I'm sure a clever person could come up with quite the Youtube video, highlighting some of the checks this guy has taken. To his credit, he is a pretty tough guy, and gets up when you wouldn't expect it... but for how long?


Last edited by Fogelhund: 11-29-2012 at 10:17 AM.
Fogelhund is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2012, 10:15 AM
  #181
Interactif
Registered User
 
Interactif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 30,931
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Grabovski is a 2nd. line center, so for him to be in that category he'd have to be in the top 60.

Is he a top 60 centerman?
He's also a 2nd line C that hasn't seen a playoff game since 06-07 at the pro level.

Interactif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2012, 10:15 AM
  #182
4evaBlue
Corsi != Possession
 
4evaBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,540
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Grabovski is a 2nd. line center, so for him to be in that category he'd have to be in the top 60.

Is he a top 60 centerman?
Does that mean there are 30 #1Cs around the league?

This has no relevance for Grabo's status as a #2C, merely differentiating #1Cs from centers who happen to play on the first line, and #2Cs from centers who happen to play on the 2nd line. There are a few top 60 centers in the league (who actually play center, not just listed as center on NHL.com) who I would HATE to have as our #2C. I don't hate having Grabo there, but I'm not loving it, either.

4evaBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2012, 10:26 AM
  #183
Interactif
Registered User
 
Interactif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 30,931
vCash: 500
For those that refer to Grabo as a player that would be a monster in the playoffs, not when you look at his career playoff stats.

32 Games, a total of 13 points.

Reality check, to make matters worse these stats were achieved at levels less than the NHL level.

Interactif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2012, 11:09 AM
  #184
Fogelhund
Registered User
 
Fogelhund's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,138
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
For those that refer to Grabo as a player that would be a monster in the playoffs, not when you look at his career playoff stats.

32 Games, a total of 13 points.

Reality check, to make matters worse these stats were achieved at levels less than the NHL level.
Really stretching to prove your point here. Looking at raw stats, without much of an understanding of them is pointless.

Corey Locke was the #1 point scorer for the Bulldogs in that AHL playoffs... just a fine predictor of how he would do in the NHL.

He's played in a number of WC and other tournaments, 54 points in 56 games... basically playoff like competition....

Fogelhund is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2012, 11:09 AM
  #185
ACC1224
Steelers 10-5
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Playoffs!
Posts: 29,404
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
For those that refer to Grabo as a player that would be a monster in the playoffs, not when you look at his career playoff stats.

32 Games, a total of 13 points.

Reality check, to make matters worse these stats were achieved at levels less than the NHL level.
What happens in the past doesn't determine what will happen in the future.

ACC1224 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2012, 11:27 AM
  #186
Leafsman
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,527
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Again, I didn't bring Joe into the conversation.

When another poster brings up a silly comparison into the conversation, one usually refutes the point if they can, thus it is open for discussion.

Just as you didn't address the fact that Kule with 30 goals or 7 goals had minimal effect on Grabo's assists total, I take this as an admission of a lost point to Grabo enablers.
It wasn't a silly comparison and showed that even strength Grabo has decent numbers. No one will argue he's as good as the players listed at the moment but those stats showed that he is a decent 2C.

As for the Kule comment. It is not far-fetched to believe that had Kule performed the same as the year previous his stats would be better. How much better is impossible to say. The year before Grabo did have 29 goals which ranks him 11th among centers which may explain his lower assists as he was shooting the puck more.

Leafsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2012, 11:30 AM
  #187
Leafsman
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,527
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Grabovski is a 2nd. line center, so for him to be in that category he'd have to be in the top 60.

Is he a top 60 centerman?
Last year he was 31st.

Leafsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2012, 11:33 AM
  #188
Leafsman
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,527
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Again, I didn't bring Joe into the conversation.

When another poster brings up a silly comparison into the conversation, one usually refutes the point if they can, thus it is open for discussion.

Just as you didn't address the fact that Kule with 30 goals or 7 goals had minimal effect on Grabo's assists total, I take this as an admission of a lost point to Grabo enablers.
Just to also clarify I believe the poster was justifying the relevance of amount of assists and not Grabovski's play compared to the people listed. Someone said 29 assists was not impressive.

Leafsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2012, 12:24 PM
  #189
hockeyfanz
Registered User
 
hockeyfanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,743
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
What happens in the past doesn't determine what will happen in the future.
Maybe the Leafs should see if Vesa Toskala is still looking for an NHL gig then.

hockeyfanz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2012, 12:27 PM
  #190
ACC1224
Steelers 10-5
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Playoffs!
Posts: 29,404
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Maybe the Leafs should see if Vesa Toskala is still looking for an NHL gig then.
Is this random thought suppose to have relevance?

ACC1224 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2012, 12:32 PM
  #191
hockeyfanz
Registered User
 
hockeyfanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,743
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
Is this random thought suppose to have relevance?
Not random...does your statement only hold true for Mikhail Grabovski or is it just a general statement about anybody or anything?

hockeyfanz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2012, 12:42 PM
  #192
ACC1224
Steelers 10-5
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Playoffs!
Posts: 29,404
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Not random...does your statement only hold true for Mikhail Grabovski or is it just a general statement about anybody or anything?
In this case Grabovski but would hold true for anyone in a similar situation.

Random would have made more sense.

ACC1224 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2012, 02:44 PM
  #193
-DeMo-
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Huntsville Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,404
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to -DeMo-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsman View Post
You did suggest looking up their career highs (Joe Thornton being one of them) as if unless Grabo achieves the same numbers he is not an effective player.

Grabo is a very effective #2C and 29 assists while not award-worthy is also not anything to dismiss as the one pointer demonstrated. He has come close to the 60 pt mark the last two seasons and I feel when the 2nd line is finalized with either JVR, Frattin or whomever makes the cut he will certainly surpass that 60 pt marker.
he just played with 2 guys one who got 60 pt's and another who got 30 goals, that a pretty good to elite offensive 2nd line he's not gonna get much better then that and he didn't get 60.

-DeMo- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2012, 02:52 PM
  #194
Leafsman
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,527
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by -DeMo- View Post
he just played with 2 guys one who got 60 pt's and another who got 30 goals, that a pretty good to elite offensive 2nd line he's not gonna get much better then that and he didn't get 60.
JVR is gonna have to fit into the top 6 somewhere. So clearly the lines aren't finalized.

When Kulemin was going good Grabs almost broke 60 and had 29 goals. He was around 26 at the time. Last year he came pretty close on a fairly dysfunctional team.

Once we see some consistency in the lineup and especially his line, we will see his full potential. It is not absurd to believe he hasn't maxxed out his potential already at 28. He has improved his game consistently over the last few years and no reason to believe he won't continue. Without question Grabo is a legit and very effective 2C.

I know I am on my own here but with further development I could see him being a 1C if we do not land one soon. That is my own personal belief/gutfeeling.

Leafsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2012, 05:52 PM
  #195
bunjay
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,961
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
So now according to Grabo apologists, PP stats don't count. If Grabo had any semblance how to use his teammates as say a Joe Thornton does, maybe PP stats would count to the Grabo apologists.

Unbelievable.
No, it's just important to compare stats that are actually comparable. Last year Grabovski was 61st amongst centers in PP time. His even strenght assist production was good even with his former 30-goal-scoring winger forgetting how to play hockey. But to you he is a puck hog with tunnel vision who has low hockey IQ and doesnt know how to use his linemates. You're so far off the mark that it's incredibly easy to show it. And the best you can do is 'OMG Thornton comparison, sooooo ridicuLOL!'

You keep denigrating his assist numbers. His assists are about 80% even strength, and a very simple sorted list shows that you're just wrong.

bunjay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2012, 06:10 PM
  #196
thewave
Registered User
 
thewave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,150
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bunjay View Post
No, it's just important to compare stats that are actually comparable. Last year Grabovski was 61st amongst centers in PP time. His even strenght assist production was good even with his former 30-goal-scoring winger forgetting how to play hockey. But to you he is a puck hog with tunnel vision who has low hockey IQ and doesnt know how to use his linemates. You're so far off the mark that it's incredibly easy to show it. And the best you can do is 'OMG Thornton comparison, sooooo ridicuLOL!'

You keep denigrating his assist numbers. His assists are about 80% even strength, and a very simple sorted list shows that you're just wrong.
What did Grabo do to this guy? Is it his last name or something? Everyone should know that he plays low tier 1C top tier 2C production, and his overall play is not weak by any measure. Sure you could have Crosby and Malkin as 1c 2c, doesnt mean you win the cup every year though.

thewave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2012, 06:27 PM
  #197
bunjay
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,961
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Again, I didn't bring Joe into the conversation.

When another poster brings up a silly comparison into the conversation, one usually refutes the point if they can, thus it is open for discussion.

Just as you didn't address the fact that Kule with 30 goals or 7 goals had minimal effect on Grabo's assists total, I take this as an admission of a lost point to Grabo enablers.
Huh? What it shows was that it was never Kulemin 'doing all the heavy lifting' with Grabovski just happening to be along for the ride in 10-11. There is absolutely no way to spin this in a negative way, it's amusing that you'd actually assume this reveals some sort of flaw.

bunjay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2012, 06:28 PM
  #198
bunjay
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,961
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by theremedial View Post
What did Grabo do to this guy?
No idea, but apparently the scars are deep

bunjay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2012, 06:29 PM
  #199
ErnieLeafs
LOVE & LIVE the Game
 
ErnieLeafs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Windsor, Ont.
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,175
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bunjay View Post
Huh? What it shows was that it was never Kulemin 'doing all the heavy lifting' with Grabovski just happening to be along for the ride in 10-11. There is absolutely no way to spin this in a negative way, it's amusing that you'd actually assume this reveals some sort of flaw.
This happens a lot.

ErnieLeafs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2012, 08:51 PM
  #200
The Blue Devil
Registered User
 
The Blue Devil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,637
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bunjay View Post
No idea, but apparently the scars are deep
Maybe he doesn't like Pineapples?

The Blue Devil is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:15 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.