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Lars Eller

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Old
11-24-2012, 02:21 PM
  #26
Prairie Habs
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Eller is being overrated in this thread... sure he has size and good raw skills but at the moment he is a very average 3rd line player, and nowhere near a lock to be a top 6 forward.
16 goals in his second season with third line minutes, no PP time, and line mates who couldn't find the net with a GPS. He also plays great D and has the size we have been looking for for a while.

And yes, he is better than Turris so far, who Ottawa fans are going mental over.

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11-24-2012, 02:51 PM
  #27
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Eller is turning into the player the Habs wanted all along. His cost would be high.

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Old
11-24-2012, 02:52 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Pierre Dagenais View Post
Are you a Nucks fan or a Habs fan? Not sure if you looked but Eller and Gaunce are the same height.

That offer is horrible for the Habs.
Both actually.

Aye, Montreal has no real reason to make that trade. The thing, Vancouver is looking for a more physical, defensive center. Eller is not the former. I wager they'd rather see what they have in Gaunce then move a first.

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Old
11-24-2012, 03:02 PM
  #29
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Would love to get Eller back in STL, but its just not worth the cost. No way im giving up Shattenkirk for him.

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Old
11-24-2012, 03:04 PM
  #30
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montreal has 0 reason to trade Eller. none. he's exactly what we need with size at center while getting progressively better in his 1st two years. I see him eventually replacing Plekanecs in a couple of years if Galchenyuk pans out. Eller can easily become a 25 goal 50 point center - with size

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Old
11-24-2012, 03:09 PM
  #31
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Eller would be a great #3C in SJ. I know I've offered Ryane Clowe before. Too bad this stupid lockout thing is eating up the last year of his contract. Seems like a bit of an overpayment (disregarding the contract issue) but SJ needs a #3C really, really, really badly.

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Old
11-24-2012, 03:18 PM
  #32
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Weber is worth to little to be the difference between Eller and Shattenkirk IMO, and this is as a Habs fan.

If your going to do that kind of deal, Eller+Diaz would make more sense.

Eller's got great potential but Galchenyuk could make him expendable at C and having Shattenkirk behind Subban means the Habs' defense on the right side at ES and on powerplay is set for years to come. My only knock on Shattenkirk is he doesn't play shutdown, on a team with Subban in front of him he won't have to. Otherwise he's a fantastic young offensive D.

Right side 2nd D is a big hole for the Habs now and going forward

I wouldn't think STL does this though, I think they need the O Def more than they need another two-way forward, they have a lot of those already.

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Old
11-24-2012, 03:24 PM
  #33
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Asking st-louis fans: would you be willing to trade Halak back for Eller ?

Then make Elliot your #01, use Halak $ saving to sign an UFA goalie (or give Allen a shoot) and use the rest of the $ saving for an upgrade elsewhere on the lineup.


Last edited by palindrom: 11-24-2012 at 03:36 PM.
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Old
11-24-2012, 03:36 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Asking st-louis fans: would you be willing to trade Halak back for Eller ?

Then make Elliot your #01, use Halak $ saving to sign an UFA goalie and upgrade elsewhere on the lineup.
No, the 1A-1B tandem of Halak/Elliott worked really well last year and I have no where near enough faith to put all the load on Elliott, unless it was a no brainer deal which Eller isn't. Other Blues fans may differ though.

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Old
11-24-2012, 03:40 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Oh boy. Brace yourself.



Pacioretty
Desharnais
Cole
Plekanec
Gionta
Cammalleri/Kostitsyn

were all better options for the top 6 in Montreal in 2011-12. He couldn't crack the Montreal top 6 (a very poor one).

This link shows 5-on-5 scoring.
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...4+25+26+27+28#

Eller is behind all of those guys (Cammalleri and Kostitsyn not appearing because of trade). Eller is also behind Travis Moen. Therefore, Eller is worse offensively than the entire bad MTL top 6. Therefore he did not deserve even strength or PP ice time over them.

Which is why he had little PP time.



His #1 linemate, Moen, produced more than he did per ice time. His #2 linemate, Kostitsyn, also produced more per ice time than Eller did. Kostitsyn also had one of his worst seasons ever playing with Eller.

Therefore the bad linemate excuse is invalid.



Eller is not really penalty killer. He received a little, but was more of a spare, right?

This link
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...24+25+26+27+28
shows that, 5-on-5, Eller played roughly against 2nd and sometimes 3rd lines. He was not used as a pure shutdown player such as Bolland. Plekanec was the main defensive centre, without a doubt.


In terms of +/- per ice time (overall two-way play), http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...4+25+26+27+28#, Eller was 10th on the Habs. That's not to say he's the 10th best because of other factors.

When Eller was off the ice, MTL had a significantly better +/- than when Eller was on. This despite Eller not even getting ultra hard defensive assignment like Plekanec (that's Plekanec's excuse for bad +/-).



In conclusion, Eller is not good enough offensively to be given top 6 or PP ice time on a bad team. He is not good enough defensively to play against 1st lines or be a PKer. He's not even effective against 2nd lines. So, how can we say he is more than an average 3rd liner?




PS. As for the Turris jab, that's so wrong. Turris had 29 points in 49 games for the Sens, Eller had 28 points in 79 games.

Never mind that Turris was the shutdown centre (Plekanec's equivalent role, and had great +/- numbers, unlike Plekanec).

You're clueless.

Once again, a player shows flashes of offensive brilliance on rare occasions, and is deemed untouchable.


Good effort, but your missing some important context here.


Moen and Kostitsyn were Eller's top linemates yes, but that mostly had to do with the hodge-podge of wingers he played with due to injuries/trades. Moen-Eller-Kostitsyn was a regular line for much of the first half, but neither was with Eller for the 2nd. For the 2nd half he was basically playing with fringe NHL-AHL talent.


The effects of the unusual situation in MTL were they had all their good centermen but only two good wingers remained could be seen on the scoring of both Plekanec and Eller, both whose offense dried up in the 2nd half.

Moen and Kostitsyn both scored at a much higher rate with Eller than without him. Moen was having a career season (built on unsustainable percentages) while Kostitsyn scored quite a bit with Eller and not with the Habs other centers this season (the usually reliable A Kost-Plekanec conection on ES went dry). With Kostitsyn he was +4 on ES, Moen +3. His minus are due to when he had to play with much worse players, White, Blunden, Darche and Rene Bourque playing some horrific hockey.


Finally, Eller was 2nd unit penalty kill yes. He wasn't a spare part though, he played regular minutes most of the season. Its what he did with that time that is special though, best shots against for forwards in the entire league.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...20&sortdir=ASC

Eller was down right dominant on the PK, which is why he played an increasingly large amount of time their as the season went on. He didn't start out as a PK regular, he forced his way onto it.

And Turris's corsi relQoC was .576. That's relatively tough top six stuff. To be a Plekanec you'd be around 1 (.905 for 14 last season, .895 year before).

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Old
11-24-2012, 03:49 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
-snip-
Most of your information and analysis is either a) wrong or b) taken out of context. I'm not wasting my time giving a breakdown of our entire season though.

Quick facts:

Plekanec, Eller and Moen were our three staples at forward of our #2 overall PK all season. A rotation of wingers fought for the fourth spot after Gionta got hurt.
Eller played against the opponents top line during the 2011 playoffs and for about 30 of the games coached under Jacques Martin last season.
The Kostitsyn-Eller-Moen line was our second most productive line offensively, while also being our shutdown line under Martin.
Injuries and a lack of depth forced both Plekanec and (even more so) Eller to play with absolute scrubs for a large part of the season.
Eller is by far the best forward we have at winning puck battles along the boards in both the offensive and defensive zones.

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Old
11-24-2012, 05:09 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Good effort, but your missing some important context here.


Moen and Kostitsyn were Eller's top linemates yes, but that mostly had to do with the hodge-podge of wingers he played with due to injuries/trades. Moen-Eller-Kostitsyn was a regular line for much of the first half, but neither was with Eller for the 2nd. For the 2nd half he was basically playing with fringe NHL-AHL talent.

The effects of the unusual situation in MTL were they had all their good centermen but only two good wingers remained could be seen on the scoring of both Plekanec and Eller, both whose offense dried up in the 2nd half.
Eller may not have played the whole season with Kostitsyn and Moen, but it was the 2nd most common line in MTL the whole season behind Patch-DD-Cole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Moen and Kostitsyn both scored at a much higher rate with Eller than without him. Moen was having a career season (built on unsustainable percentages) while Kostitsyn scored quite a bit with Eller and not with the Habs other centers this season (the usually reliable A Kost-Plekanec conection on ES went dry). With Kostitsyn he was +4 on ES, Moen +3. His minus are due to when he had to play with much worse players, White, Blunden, Darche and Rene Bourque playing some horrific hockey.
Source? How can you know they scored less without Eller than with him? Bottom line is Moen and Kostitsyn were both better producers than Eller.

Source for the +/-?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Finally, Eller was 2nd unit penalty kill yes. He wasn't a spare part though, he played regular minutes most of the season.
Eller was 7th among Habs forwards in PK time.
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...4+45+46+63+67#

Unless you guys have 8 regular PKers, I would not say that's regular. He was the least used of the regulars at the very least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Its what he did with that time that is special though, best shots against for forwards in the entire league.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...20&sortdir=ASC

Eller was down right dominant on the PK, which is why he played an increasingly large amount of time their as the season went on. He didn't start out as a PK regular, he forced his way onto it.
Of the 8 forwards that averaged more than 1 min of PK time per game, Eller was 4th in goals against (per ice time).
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...4+25+26+27+28#

Pretty much middle of the pack in MTL's PK forwards.

Goals against are what matter, not shots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
And Turris's corsi relQoC was .576. That's relatively tough top six stuff. To be a Plekanec you'd be around 1 (.905 for 14 last season, .895 year before).
Turris was #1 on the Sens. It varies from team to team. If you added up all the Corsi QoC from one team, it would NOT equal that of another team's. Teams aren't given X amount of Corsi QoC to pass around. Therefore you can't compare between teams.

Turris was the shutdown centre in Ottawa. He played against Stamkos, Tavares, etc. And he produced great results, quite the opposite of Plekanec.

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Old
11-24-2012, 05:25 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Playmaker09 View Post
Most of your information and analysis is either a) wrong or b) taken out of context. I'm not wasting my time giving a breakdown of our entire season though.
My information is statistics, they are Facts. They can't be wrong.

If you can't explain your position, then you won't win an argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Playmaker09 View Post
Quick facts:

Plekanec, Eller and Moen were our three staples at forward of our #2 overall PK all season. A rotation of wingers fought for the fourth spot after Gionta got hurt.
Eller played against the opponents top line during the 2011 playoffs and for about 30 of the games coached under Jacques Martin last season.
The Kostitsyn-Eller-Moen line was our second most productive line offensively, while also being our shutdown line under Martin.
Injuries and a lack of depth forced both Plekanec and (even more so) Eller to play with absolute scrubs for a large part of the season.
Eller is by far the best forward we have at winning puck battles along the boards in both the offensive and defensive zones.
Facts:

Eller was 7th among Habs forwards in PK ice time.
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...4+25+26+27+28#

Hardly a 'staple'.


Plekanec played against top lines in 2010-11 (and Eller against 4th lines):
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...24+25+26+27+28

Plekanec played against top lines in the 2011 playoffs:
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...24+25+26+27+28


Plekanec was the shutdown line then and in 2011-12.

AK46-Eller-Moen being the 2nd most productive on Montreal is not impressive at all. And I don't even believe you. Do you have a source? I'd put my money on Plekanec with Gionta/Cammalleri/Bourque/whoever.



So Montreal had horrible depth and Eller was forced to play with scrubs for a bit of the season... how do you explain Eller getting very very little PP time? If he was one of the better players, he would have been out there.

Travis Moen outscored Eller (per ice time cause Moen missed games). Travis frikin Moen. If you want to be considered better than an average 3rd liner, try by starting to score more than Moen.


Winning puck battles is just a part of defensive and offensive play... in other words, a way to score and prevent goals. Because really that's all that matters. So in other words, +/-. Eller sucked at +/-.

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Old
11-24-2012, 05:52 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Oh boy. Brace yourself.



Pacioretty
Desharnais
Cole
Plekanec
Gionta
Cammalleri/Kostitsyn

were all better options for the top 6 in Montreal in 2011-12. He couldn't crack the Montreal top 6 (a very poor one).

This link shows 5-on-5 scoring.
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...4+25+26+27+28#

Eller is behind all of those guys (Cammalleri and Kostitsyn not appearing because of trade). Eller is also behind Travis Moen. Therefore, Eller is worse offensively than the entire bad MTL top 6. Therefore he did not deserve even strength or PP ice time over them.

Which is why he had little PP time.



His #1 linemate, Moen, produced more than he did per ice time. His #2 linemate, Kostitsyn, also produced more per ice time than Eller did. Kostitsyn also had one of his worst seasons ever playing with Eller.

Therefore the bad linemate excuse is invalid.



Eller is not really penalty killer. He received a little, but was more of a spare, right?

This link
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...24+25+26+27+28
shows that, 5-on-5, Eller played roughly against 2nd and sometimes 3rd lines. He was not used as a pure shutdown player such as Bolland. Plekanec was the main defensive centre, without a doubt.


In terms of +/- per ice time (overall two-way play), http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...4+25+26+27+28#, Eller was 10th on the Habs. That's not to say he's the 10th best because of other factors.

When Eller was off the ice, MTL had a significantly better +/- than when Eller was on. This despite Eller not even getting ultra hard defensive assignment like Plekanec (that's Plekanec's excuse for bad +/-).



In conclusion, Eller is not good enough offensively to be given top 6 or PP ice time on a bad team. He is not good enough defensively to play against 1st lines or be a PKer. He's not even effective against 2nd lines. So, how can we say he is more than an average 3rd liner?




PS. As for the Turris jab, that's so wrong. Turris had 29 points in 49 games for the Sens, Eller had 28 points in 79 games.

Never mind that Turris was the shutdown centre (Plekanec's equivalent role, and had great +/- numbers, unlike Plekanec).

You're clueless.

Once again, a player shows flashes of offensive brilliance on rare occasions, and is deemed untouchable.
Congrats, you've proven that you've never watched Eller before. Also why do you compare him against wingers when he plays center? Guys like Blunden and Darche played in the top 6 ahead of Eller because they play on the wing, a completely different position than the one Eller plays.

Also you didn't invalidate the linemate argument, you improved it. You say his top linemates were AK and Moen. AK spent a good part of the season on the fourth line and another in Nashville. Moen was out with a concussion for half the season. If these are the two players he played the most with then he obviously had a revolving door of crap because he didn't spend that much time with either.

And to your final part. At using +/- to justify defense.

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Old
11-24-2012, 06:16 PM
  #40
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Congrats, you've proven that you've never watched Eller before.
I watch him plenty thanks. He plays in the same division as the Sens. I live in Eastern Ontario. The Habs are on TSN a lot, and obviously sur le Réseau des sports.


He's a big body with good traditional hockey skills... but his brain can't compete with his physical tools (at the moment anyway).

Go on, keep watching him... just because you see potential, it doesn't mean he'll produce actual results. It CERTAINLY doesn't mean he has produced results.

And you proved you didn't watch Turris. Turris = 2nd line centre on playoff team. Eller = 3rd liner centre on horrible team. Yet you come come to the conclusion Eller > Turris.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairie Habs View Post
Also why do you compare him against wingers when he plays center? Guys like Blunden and Darche played in the top 6 ahead of Eller because they play on the wing, a completely different position than the one Eller plays.
?

I named 6 players (with 2 centres) who deserved top 6 ice time over Eller (7 if we count Moen). Did you read my post?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairie Habs View Post
Also you didn't invalidate the linemate argument, you improved it. You say his top linemates were AK and Moen. AK spent a good part of the season on the fourth line and another in Nashville. Moen was out with a concussion for half the season. If these are the two players he played the most with then he obviously had a revolving door of crap because he didn't spend that much time with either.
He produced less then DD, Pacioretty, Cole, Plekanec, Cammalleri, Kostitsyn, Gionta and Moen.

You expect me to praise him as a some kind of god or something?

He's not the only one who had a revolving door of crap, namely Kostitsyn (as you mention), Moen and Plekanec.

Honestly, average 3rd liner is being generous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairie Habs View Post
And to your final part. At using +/- to justify defense.
+/- just like that is not useful.

You have to look at the competition he faces... (2nd/3rd lines)
You have to look at the team he plays on... (see the column +/- Off the ice? His team is better when he's off).
You have to look at ice time... (it's fixed for 60 min of ice time)

Problems solved. A guy who faces top competition, but still contributes positively relative to his team (On ice +/- > Off ice +/-), then that's a great player.

Turris for example.

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Old
11-24-2012, 06:35 PM
  #41
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So you have no interest in Eller, and just decided to come into this thread to argue with Habs fans about how awful he is? Grow up guy.

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Old
11-24-2012, 07:01 PM
  #42
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Eller+ for Perron.

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Old
11-24-2012, 07:21 PM
  #43
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Eller+ for Perron.
Not a chance. Perron is a core player for the Blues now and not one they'll be looking to move. If we wanted to keep Eller then we shouldn't have traded him for Halak. Simple as that. As much as I'd like to see him back in St.Louis there's just no chance that the Blues make a move for him anytime soon. That said, glad he's working out well for Montréal. You guys have one heck of a solid two-way centre on your hands.

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11-24-2012, 08:30 PM
  #44
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That was kind of my point. Just found it funny how the OP mentioned they had depth at RD for a trade but doesn't want to trade them for Eller. At least that's how I interpreted it.


How was my proposal for value?

Gaunce + 1st for Eller + 2nd
Depth doesn't mean the team is going to trade one of our top two defenseman. I took it as trading one of our other defenseman. But that wouldn't be enough value so it wouldn't happen

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11-24-2012, 09:26 PM
  #45
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Nice subject, a pity the thread is most likely going to evolve into a pissing contest, but what successful trade thread has not.. Perron or Shattenkirk for Eller + ... might be the only way IMHO. Habs fans in general have sizable expectations on Eller's future or just have a fix on Perron

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Old
11-24-2012, 09:36 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
My information is statistics, they are Facts. They can't be wrong.



so much wrong about that statement it's impossible to pick where to start...


best to just leave it at "yes, you're right". FACTS are that Eller is a mediocre player. Habs will just have to suck it up and deal with it... too bad for us. Damn facts ruining all the fun

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11-24-2012, 10:01 PM
  #47
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so much wrong about that statement it's impossible to pick where to start...


best to just leave it at "yes, you're right". FACTS are that Eller is a mediocre player. Habs will just have to suck it up and deal with it... too bad for us. Damn facts ruining all the fun
''Eller was 7th in PK ice time for forwards on the Habs''

''Eller had the 6th highest quality of competition for forwards on the Habs''

etc

FACTS. Can't be wrong or disputed.


Eller is an average 3rd liner right now (opinion based on facts). He is not worth Shattenkirk, a top pair defenseman. Not even close.

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Old
11-24-2012, 10:39 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
''Eller was 7th in PK ice time for forwards on the Habs''

''Eller had the 6th highest quality of competition for forwards on the Habs''

etc

FACTS. Can't be wrong or disputed.


Eller is an average 3rd liner right now (opinion based on facts). He is not worth Shattenkirk, a top pair defenseman. Not even close.
So it is a FACT that Eller is an average 3rd liner?

or is it that, according to your INTERPRETATION of the facts (including, but not limited to, your perception of what statistics a 3rd line player should be measured by, your interpretation of which statistics should be measured period, and your subjective valuation of how/which statistics/rankings to value) you deduce that Eller is average...

thing is, i'm not even disputing that he is or isn't an "average 3rd liner", but stop for a second and actually think about what you're saying.

are so blinded by "facts" that you can't see how it is a very subjective process of deciding which set of statistics you chose to consider in establishing eller's value as a player?

or did I miss the message from above that henceforth, a 3rd liner will be measured by PK ice time, quality of competition, et et et.

Statistics are what they are and "can't" be disputed (though, as any knowledgable hockey fan would know, many statistics are in fact regularly faulty/subjective, owing to either generous or conservative statisticians for whom what a "hit" or "blocked shot" or "takeaway" varies), but how those statistics are interpreted and then used to create value-judgements on individual players is so obviously a subjective practice that only the most arrogant and ignorant of fans could reasonably argue otherwise.

to say nothing of the added subjective valuations on age, contracts, team makeup, character, et. et. All elements that clearly have a huge impact on what a players value (or more accurately, perceived value) to a franchise will be.


bottom line... Eller is a very valuable asset for the Canadiens, imo of course. Personally, while I am a fan of Turris (whom was used in earlier comparisons), I wouldn't hesitate to refuse a 1-for-1 trade of the two players as I, subjectively, place greater value on the asset that Eller is for the habs, then on what I perceive Turris would be for them.

The only "FACT" is that neither you nor I can pretend to hold some greater insight into what is closer to some "objective" truth on the matter... to state otherwise is simply foolish.

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11-24-2012, 10:45 PM
  #49
MAK19
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
So it is a FACT that Eller is an average 3rd liner?

or is it that, according to your INTERPRETATION of the facts (including, but not limited to, your perception of what statistics a 3rd line player should be measured by, your interpretation of which statistics should be measured period, and your subjective valuation of how/which statistics/rankings to value) you deduce that Eller is average...

thing is, i'm not even disputing that he is or isn't an "average 3rd liner", but stop for a second and actually think about what you're saying.

are so blinded by "facts" that you can't see how it is a very subjective process of deciding which set of statistics you chose to consider in establishing eller's value as a player?

or did I miss the message from above that henceforth, a 3rd liner will be measured by PK ice time, quality of competition, et et et.

Statistics are what they are and "can't" be disputed (though, as any knowledgable hockey fan would know, many statistics are in fact regularly faulty/subjective, owing to either generous or conservative statisticians for whom what a "hit" or "blocked shot" or "takeaway" varies), but how those statistics are interpreted and then used to create value-judgements on individual players is so obviously a subjective practice that only the most arrogant and ignorant of fans could reasonably argue otherwise.

to say nothing of the added subjective valuations on age, contracts, team makeup, character, et. et. All elements that clearly have a huge impact on what a players value (or more accurately, perceived value) to a franchise will be.


bottom line... Eller is a very valuable asset for the Canadiens, imo of course. Personally, while I am a fan of Turris (whom was used in earlier comparisons), I wouldn't hesitate to refuse a 1-for-1 trade of the two players as I, subjectively, place greater value on the asset that Eller is for the habs, then on what I perceive Turris would be for them.

The only "FACT" is that neither you nor I can pretend to hold some greater insight into what is closer to some "objective" truth on the matter... to state otherwise is simply foolish.
Dude, first all of, notice the ''(opinion based on facts)'' in the post you quoted?

Second, I said my information, not my analysis, was fact. Learn to read.

Now, that said, he was 8th among Habs forwards in offensive production. That alone makes him an average 3rd liner. (you know, as there are 6 forwards in the top 6). Add the fact that this happened on a horrible team (with presumably lower quality forwards) and the other variety of statistics that show Eller is nothing special, it makes it even more convincing.

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11-24-2012, 10:51 PM
  #50
Playmaker09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
My information is statistics, they are Facts. They can't be wrong.

If you can't explain your position, then you won't win an argument.



Facts:

Eller was 7th among Habs forwards in PK ice time.
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...4+25+26+27+28#

Hardly a 'staple'.


Plekanec played against top lines in 2010-11 (and Eller against 4th lines):
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...24+25+26+27+28

Plekanec played against top lines in the 2011 playoffs:
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...24+25+26+27+28


Plekanec was the shutdown line then and in 2011-12.

AK46-Eller-Moen being the 2nd most productive on Montreal is not impressive at all. And I don't even believe you. Do you have a source? I'd put my money on Plekanec with Gionta/Cammalleri/Bourque/whoever.



So Montreal had horrible depth and Eller was forced to play with scrubs for a bit of the season... how do you explain Eller getting very very little PP time? If he was one of the better players, he would have been out there.

Travis Moen outscored Eller (per ice time cause Moen missed games). Travis frikin Moen. If you want to be considered better than an average 3rd liner, try by starting to score more than Moen.


Winning puck battles is just a part of defensive and offensive play... in other words, a way to score and prevent goals. Because really that's all that matters. So in other words, +/-. Eller sucked at +/-.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
''Eller was 7th in PK ice time for forwards on the Habs''

''Eller had the 6th highest quality of competition for forwards on the Habs''

etc

FACTS. Can't be wrong or disputed.


Eller is an average 3rd liner right now (opinion based on facts). He is not worth Shattenkirk, a top pair defenseman. Not even close.
The only fact that you pointed out that was actually correct was that he did not play against the top line of the other team in the 2011 playoffs. That was my bad, but he did have a much larger defensive role compared to the regular season.

For the rest of the stats, are you even looking at what you're reading? You just blindly list numbers. He was 7th behind who? Ryan White, Brian Gionta and Rene Bourque who played 20, 31 and 38 games for the Habs last season respectively? Even Moen only played 48. Darche saw extra ice time as a result of these injuries on the wing as well while Plekanec, who is one of the best PKers in the league played significant minutes for the entire season. Thus, Eller was our second unit's centre, consisitently, throughout the entire season, who's minutes were not boosted due to the significant amount of injuries we had. As further proof, he took the second most short-handed faceoffs on the team.

Same with QOC. You rank him behind players who played 1/3 of the season.

The Moen-Eller-AK line was our second most productive line last year. I specifically remember it from a thread on the Habs' board which detailed the use and effectiveness of our line combinations throughout the season, as it also came as a bit of a surprise to everyone else. If you want to look it up, go right ahead.

The rest can be explained with the very poor coaching of Randy Cunnyworth. As soon as he came in, he placed the entire defensive burden on Plekanec, which both burnt him out and was an obvious misutility of our players. Eller actually had the second most P/60 on the powerplay, in the limited time he was used, behind only David Desharnais. Why he was not used more and was passed on in favor of the likes of Mathieu Darche is a mystery to us all.

You seem to have a seriously misinformed opinion.

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