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Lars Eller

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Old
11-24-2012, 11:01 PM
  #51
glenbuis
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I think the thread is on the rite path. How about Eller, Desharnais, Subban and a second for Perron, Bergulund and Shattenkirk.

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Old
11-24-2012, 11:10 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Playmaker09 View Post
For the rest of the stats, are you even looking at what you're reading? You just blindly list numbers. He was 7th behind who? Ryan White, Brian Gionta and Rene Bourque who played 20, 31 and 38 games for the Habs last season respectively? Even Moen only played 48. Darche saw extra ice time as a result of these injuries on the wing as well while Plekanec, who is one of the best PKers in the league played significant minutes for the entire season. Thus, Eller was our second unit's centre, consisitently, throughout the entire season, who's minutes were not boosted due to the significant amount of injuries we had. As further proof, he took the second most short-handed faceoffs on the team.
?

That doesn't change the fact that Darche, Gionta, Bourque and White were more valued and used more as PKers. They just were, there's no way around it. OK, I'll give you that Eller was a regular because it's unlikely the 6 ahead of him would all be in the lineup at the same time.

That said, if they were, Eller would likely be the 7th most valued/used PKer. Why would all their minutes go up because of injury/etc, but not Eller's? Why did Eller's consistently stay under 2 min a game?

And don't give me ''it was to save him for 5-on-5'', because Eller was 8th in ice time there as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Playmaker09 View Post
Same with QOC. You rank him behind players who played 1/3 of the season.
So? In their 1/3 of the season, the were used in defensive situations more than Eller.

Plekanec played 81 games as a centre and played against 1st lines.

So Eller played against 2nd lines. What I've been saying all along.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Playmaker09 View Post
The Moen-Eller-AK line was our second most productive line last year. I specifically remember it from a thread on the Habs' board which detailed the use and effectiveness of our line combinations throughout the season, as it also came as a bit of a surprise to everyone else. If you want to look it up, go right ahead.
OK fine. Still not impressive at all. It's the Habs.

Overall, Eller was the 8th most productive forward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Playmaker09 View Post
The rest can be explained with the very poor coaching of Randy Cunnyworth. As soon as he came in, he placed the entire defensive burden on Plekanec, which both burnt him out and was an obvious misutility of our players. Eller actually had the second most P/60 on the powerplay, in the limited time he was used, behind only David Desharnais. Why he was not used more and was passed on in favor of the likes of Mathieu Darche is a mystery to us all.

You seem to have a seriously misinformed opinion.
Agreed, Eller should have seen more PP time. Though he may not have stayed at #2 if he played more than 40 sec a game.

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Old
11-24-2012, 11:49 PM
  #53
Playmaker09
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Quote:
?

That doesn't change the fact that Darche, Gionta, Bourque and White were more valued and used more as PKers. They just were, there's no way around it. OK, I'll give you that Eller was a regular because it's unlikely the 6 ahead of him would all be in the lineup at the same time.

That said, if they were, Eller would likely be the 7th most valued/used PKer. Why would all their minutes go up because of injury/etc, but not Eller's? Why did Eller's consistently stay under 2 min a game?

And don't give me ''it was to save him for 5-on-5'', because Eller was 8th in ice time there as well.
That's incorrect. He would likely be third if everyone was healthy for 82 games. Plekanec, as I already stated, is one of the best PKers in the league and is also a center. Eller played center on the second unit behind him all year. Therefore, our injuries to multiple wingers did not change the fact that he was stuck behind Plekanec, who played 3+ mins a game on the PK. The revolving door of wingers each got to play a good amount of their minutes next to Plekanec on the PK at one point or another for the small sample sizes that they played. That boosted their totals by playing 3+ mins per game, in those games. With a healthy lineup, Plekanec would have still had his 3 mins and Moen would have had just a little less as his winger on the first unit. Eller would have had similar minutes as he had now with a rotation of Darche or Gionta on his wing.

Quote:
So? In their 1/3 of the season, the were used in defensive situations more than Eller.

Plekanec played 81 games as a centre and played against 1st lines.

So Eller played against 2nd lines. What I've been saying all along.
Because they played with Plekanec, on the second line, where they didn't belong, under Cunnyworth's flawed system. Again, compare apples to apples. Eller fought for defensive minutes with Plekanec while the wingers had to battle it out with who exactly? Especially considering they were in and out of the lineup at different times. Yet a conservative coach like Jacques Martin thought it wise to match Eller up against first lines for at least 20-30 games while he was here, and it proved to be effective. He was a plus 5 though the first 38 games, on a poor team, seeing as you like that stat so much. Just because Malkin's behind Crosby, it doesn't make him a second line center. Eller has the ability to play against other teams' best lines every night, and has been able to do so effectively when asked to. Simple as that. But you'd need to actually watch hockey to see it.


Quote:
OK fine. Still not impressive at all. It's the Habs.

Overall, Eller was the 8th most productive forward.
Exactly. It was the Habs, hence he played with far worse linemats than anyone ahead of him and was asked to to carry a line of AHLers by himself for a large chunk of the season. In the time where he actually played with respectable NHLers he showed the ability to produce. As already pointed out, Moen and Kostitsyn showed their greatest level of productivity on Eller's wing. They were able to maintain that pace to a degree when played with a very talented center in Plekanec. Eller's point totals dropped off due to an obvious lack of support.


I'm done, whether you continue to refuse to believe what happened or not.

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Old
11-25-2012, 12:02 AM
  #54
Talks to Goalposts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Eller may not have played the whole season with Kostitsyn and Moen, but it was the 2nd most common line in MTL the whole season behind Patch-DD-Cole.


Source? How can you know they scored less without Eller than with him? Bottom line is Moen and Kostitsyn were both better producers than Eller.

Source for the +/-?
Most commonly used line after 67-51-72 and he only plays 1/3rd of the season with them
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_time_...4+25+26+27+28#

That should tell you something about what went down in MTL last year.




+/- WOWY
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/show...5v5&type=goals


Moen-Eller-Kostitsyn were 3.3 goals per 60 (very good) together last season, with 11 goals in 197 minutes of ES ice time.


Since we've brought up the Sens before, 3.3 team goals per 60 would slot in right behind Spezza and Michalek for forwards. That probably isn't sustainable long-term but it would be a high rate line on any team.


Moen's Team GF per 20 with Eller was .842, without .555

http://www.cs.unb.ca/~mwf/habs/gf.html


http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/show...5v5&type=goals

Kostitsyn's Team GF per 20 with Eller was 1.092, without .879

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/show...5v5&type=goals

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Eller was 7th among Habs forwards in PK time.
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...4+45+46+63+67#

Unless you guys have 8 regular PKers, I would not say that's regular. He was the least used of the regulars at the very least.
If you knew MTL's lineup you'd know that 5 out of the 6 guys ahead of him in terms of TOI/G are wingers. That would have let you know something strange was going on. Specifically that due to injuries their was a big cast of wingers on the PK. Eller was the second PK center for most of the season.

If you modify your list to include players that played 40 games in a Habs sweater suddenly Eller is 4th on the list, behind only Plekanec, Moen (48 games), Darche (61GP). Bourque is also there with 76 games, but only 38 were with MTL.

Again, you've got the right idea but you're messing up by only looking at the surface and then jumping to conclusions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Of the 8 forwards that averaged more than 1 min of PK time per game, Eller was 4th in goals against (per ice time).
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...4+25+26+27+28#

Pretty much middle of the pack in MTL's PK forwards.

Goals against are what matter, not shots.
If you know enough to use behindthenet then you should know enough hockey stat theory that for small sample size situations shots are better measurements than goals. A single season special teams very much small sample size. Any random guy can get a run of luck on goaltending, its who allows the least chances against that wins in the long run.


And if you want to only look at goals, well then you should look at how well Eller does compared to the rest of the league, 23rd in GA for forwards with over 40 games that average above 1.5 minutes per game PK time.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...24+25+26+27+28

You're penalizing him for playing with another elite PK center in Plekanec. There was a reason Montreal had a PK amoung the league's best last year.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Turris was #1 on the Sens. It varies from team to team. If you added up all the Corsi QoC from one team, it would NOT equal that of another team's. Teams aren't given X amount of Corsi QoC to pass around. Therefore you can't compare between teams.


Turris was the shutdown centre in Ottawa. He played against Stamkos, Tavares, etc. And he produced great results, quite the opposite of Plekanec.
They don't all add up the same for each team yes, but we can make some good generalizations not just by were a guy ranks in QoC but how that compares to the rest of his teammates. A dedicated shutdown line will be noticably higher in QoC than his teammates. Turris is only .3 away from Spezza, which is all that much and shows his team was that choosy about putting him out their in defensive situations. They also don't use him as a primary defensive zone draw player like Plekanec is.

Any evaluations on Plekanec as a defensive player solely on last years stats is going to give you a false impression because of the nightmare winger situation in the second half, which notably brought him down. Look at his numbers 2009-2011 if you want the real picture.

Or look at this
http://enattendantlesnordiques.blogs...n-2011-12.html

The winger situation in Montreal for the 2nd half was too extreme for you to make good snap judgements on some surface statistics.


And for general interest, Oliver Boucher on Eller 2011-12
http://enattendantlesnordiques.blogs...r-2011-12.html


Last edited by Talks to Goalposts: 11-25-2012 at 12:09 AM.
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Old
11-25-2012, 04:32 AM
  #55
ImGoingNucks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
?

That doesn't change the fact that Darche, Gionta, Bourque and White were more valued and used more as PKers. They just were, there's no way around it. OK, I'll give you that Eller was a regular because it's unlikely the 6 ahead of him would all be in the lineup at the same time.

That said, if they were, Eller would likely be the 7th most valued/used PKer. Why would all their minutes go up because of injury/etc, but not Eller's? Why did Eller's consistently stay under 2 min a game?

And don't give me ''it was to save him for 5-on-5'', because Eller was 8th in ice time there as well.



So? In their 1/3 of the season, the were used in defensive situations more than Eller.

Plekanec played 81 games as a centre and played against 1st lines.

So Eller played against 2nd lines. What I've been saying all along.



OK fine. Still not impressive at all. It's the Habs.

Overall, Eller was the 8th most productive forward.



Agreed, Eller should have seen more PP time. Though he may not have stayed at #2 if he played more than 40 sec a game.
Can't really figure out what the purpose of your bashing is?

With your logics Eller is a better player than Turris.

Turris has played 16 games for kärpät of the finish elite league
scoring 5 and assisting 10 thats 15 points on the TOP team in the league, numero UNO!

Lars Eller so far has 4 games with 4g and 2a for 6 points on a team that is number 6.

Also, I am a huge Boedker fan, so I followed the yotes allot! And lemme tell you that Turris was NOTHING special in the 08-09 & 10-11 Seasons..

And he played quite some top line minutes..

Not saying I don't like him, I do... But to me Turris would have never GONE 3rd overall in another draft year...

So instead of beingso hung up on Eller being overrated, I know enough Sens fans to know, that, this is defo the case for Turris in Ottawa!

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Old
11-25-2012, 07:36 AM
  #56
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What would a team like Anaheim give up for him? He could develop into #2C they are looking for

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Old
11-25-2012, 08:14 AM
  #57
Drydenwasthebest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Most commonly used line after 67-51-72 and he only plays 1/3rd of the season with them
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_time_...4+25+26+27+28#

That should tell you something about what went down in MTL last year.




+/- WOWY
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/show...5v5&type=goals


Moen-Eller-Kostitsyn were 3.3 goals per 60 (very good) together last season, with 11 goals in 197 minutes of ES ice time.


Since we've brought up the Sens before, 3.3 team goals per 60 would slot in right behind Spezza and Michalek for forwards. That probably isn't sustainable long-term but it would be a high rate line on any team.


Moen's Team GF per 20 with Eller was .842, without .555

http://www.cs.unb.ca/~mwf/habs/gf.html


http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/show...5v5&type=goals

Kostitsyn's Team GF per 20 with Eller was 1.092, without .879

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/show...5v5&type=goals



If you knew MTL's lineup you'd know that 5 out of the 6 guys ahead of him in terms of TOI/G are wingers. That would have let you know something strange was going on. Specifically that due to injuries their was a big cast of wingers on the PK. Eller was the second PK center for most of the season.

If you modify your list to include players that played 40 games in a Habs sweater suddenly Eller is 4th on the list, behind only Plekanec, Moen (48 games), Darche (61GP). Bourque is also there with 76 games, but only 38 were with MTL.

Again, you've got the right idea but you're messing up by only looking at the surface and then jumping to conclusions.



If you know enough to use behindthenet then you should know enough hockey stat theory that for small sample size situations shots are better measurements than goals. A single season special teams very much small sample size. Any random guy can get a run of luck on goaltending, its who allows the least chances against that wins in the long run.


And if you want to only look at goals, well then you should look at how well Eller does compared to the rest of the league, 23rd in GA for forwards with over 40 games that average above 1.5 minutes per game PK time.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...24+25+26+27+28

You're penalizing him for playing with another elite PK center in Plekanec. There was a reason Montreal had a PK amoung the league's best last year.




They don't all add up the same for each team yes, but we can make some good generalizations not just by were a guy ranks in QoC but how that compares to the rest of his teammates. A dedicated shutdown line will be noticably higher in QoC than his teammates. Turris is only .3 away from Spezza, which is all that much and shows his team was that choosy about putting him out their in defensive situations. They also don't use him as a primary defensive zone draw player like Plekanec is.

Any evaluations on Plekanec as a defensive player solely on last years stats is going to give you a false impression because of the nightmare winger situation in the second half, which notably brought him down. Look at his numbers 2009-2011 if you want the real picture.

Or look at this
http://enattendantlesnordiques.blogs...n-2011-12.html

The winger situation in Montreal for the 2nd half was too extreme for you to make good snap judgements on some surface statistics.


And for general interest, Oliver Boucher on Eller 2011-12
http://enattendantlesnordiques.blogs...r-2011-12.html
Looks like Mandydoesn'tAlwaysKnow...lol.

Very well done. The reality is that context is important when looking at "facts" based solely on numbers. As has been demonstrated, Eller had less TOI on the PK than many less capable players due to position played vs player availability. Eller is very good and getting better as a defensive forward. Plekanec is elite. Plekanec wasn't hurt, so Eller got far less PK time than he would otherwise.

In any case, well done. Using numbers and context is usually far more reliable than numbers alone.

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Old
11-25-2012, 11:49 AM
  #58
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sorry playmaker this is the last one i'm doing, tired of this thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Most commonly used line after 67-51-72 and he only plays 1/3rd of the season with them
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_time_...4+25+26+27+28#

That should tell you something about what went down in MTL last year.
OK, and that's exactly what I said. I've known this all along.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
+/- WOWY
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/show...5v5&type=goals


Moen-Eller-Kostitsyn were 3.3 goals per 60 (very good) together last season, with 11 goals in 197 minutes of ES ice time.


Since we've brought up the Sens before, 3.3 team goals per 60 would slot in right behind Spezza and Michalek for forwards. That probably isn't sustainable long-term but it would be a high rate line on any team.


Moen's Team GF per 20 with Eller was .842, without .555

http://www.cs.unb.ca/~mwf/habs/gf.html


http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/show...5v5&type=goals

Kostitsyn's Team GF per 20 with Eller was 1.092, without .879

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/show...5v5&type=goals
OK, they were the 2nd most productive line. Still not impressive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
If you knew MTL's lineup you'd know that 5 out of the 6 guys ahead of him in terms of TOI/G are wingers. That would have let you know something strange was going on. Specifically that due to injuries their was a big cast of wingers on the PK. Eller was the second PK center for most of the season.
... the Sens don't always roll with a centre on the ice for the PK. They literally had only Smith who killed penalties, and Konopka would occasionally be sent out there for the faceoff only, that's all. (thinking back Winchester and O'Brien PKed, but did not play many games). Point is, being the #2 PK centre doesn't mean you're automatically a top 4 penalty killer.

On the fly, 2 wingers can be sent out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
If you modify your list to include players that played 40 games in a Habs sweater suddenly Eller is 4th on the list, behind only Plekanec, Moen (48 games), Darche (61GP). Bourque is also there with 76 games, but only 38 were with MTL.

Again, you've got the right idea but you're messing up by only looking at the surface and then jumping to conclusions.
So why are we discrediting White, Bourque and Gionta? When they played, they were used as PKers more than Eller. Eller was the 7th most valued PKer on the Habs.

Are you telling me that if Gionta, for example, had played a full season, his PK ice time would have been lower than Eller's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
If you know enough to use behindthenet then you should know enough hockey stat theory that for small sample size situations shots are better measurements than goals. A single season special teams very much small sample size. Any random guy can get a run of luck on goaltending, its who allows the least chances against that wins in the long run.
A single season is small sample size?

Shots is not the same as scoring chances, like you're implying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
And if you want to only look at goals, well then you should look at how well Eller does compared to the rest of the league, 23rd in GA for forwards with over 40 games that average above 1.5 minutes per game PK time.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...24+25+26+27+28

You're penalizing him for playing with another elite PK center in Plekanec. There was a reason Montreal had a PK amoung the league's best last year.
There is a reason why Montreal had a good PK this year. And it's not Eller. It's Price, Gorges, and likely coaching.

It has nothing to do with Plekanec. Eller is 7th behind 6 other guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
They don't all add up the same for each team yes, but we can make some good generalizations not just by were a guy ranks in QoC but how that compares to the rest of his teammates. A dedicated shutdown line will be noticably higher in QoC than his teammates. Turris is only .3 away from Spezza, which is all that much and shows his team was that choosy about putting him out their in defensive situations. They also don't use him as a primary defensive zone draw player like Plekanec is.

Any evaluations on Plekanec as a defensive player solely on last years stats is going to give you a false impression because of the nightmare winger situation in the second half, which notably brought him down. Look at his numbers 2009-2011 if you want the real picture.

Or look at this
http://enattendantlesnordiques.blogs...n-2011-12.html

The winger situation in Montreal for the 2nd half was too extreme for you to make good snap judgements on some surface statistics.


And for general interest, Oliver Boucher on Eller 2011-12
http://enattendantlesnordiques.blogs...r-2011-12.html
The reason Spezza is close to Turris is because Turris only played 49 games. The other 32 games, Spezza faced #1 lines, which boosted his QoC number.

When Turris was playing, Turris faced #1 lines, and Spezza #2 or 3.

And no I don't think Plekanec is a bad player. I realize playing with Bourque and Ryan White is not easy.

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Old
11-25-2012, 11:53 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Looks like Mandydoesn'tAlwaysKnow...lol.

Very well done. The reality is that context is important when looking at "facts" based solely on numbers. As has been demonstrated, Eller had less TOI on the PK than many less capable players due to position played vs player availability. Eller is very good and getting better as a defensive forward. Plekanec is elite. Plekanec wasn't hurt, so Eller got far less PK time than he would otherwise.

In any case, well done. Using numbers and context is usually far more reliable than numbers alone.
I'm not Mandy, I'm a dude. Unfortunately


''As has been demonstrated, Eller had less TOI on the PK than many less capable players due to position played vs player availability''

this makes no sense, because teams don't always have 1 winger and 1 centre on the PK. There can be 2 wingers. At any rate, Eller should have been equal to the theoretical #2 winger, right? Not so far behind.

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Old
11-25-2012, 12:38 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by hlaverty06 View Post
What would a team like Anaheim give up for him? He could develop into #2C they are looking for
Any good answer is gonna have to qualify as "a significant puzzle piece" and not just a bunch of spare parts.

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11-25-2012, 01:24 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post

OK, and that's exactly what I said. I've known this all along.
You fail to consider the implications of this matter, which is why its been repeated to you so many times.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post

OK, they were the 2nd most productive line. Still not impressive.
Your too focused on team rank, how you got the idea that its the most important thing I have no idea. 3.3 goals per hour is good for just about any line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
... the Sens don't always roll with a centre on the ice for the PK. They literally had only Smith who killed penalties, and Konopka would occasionally be sent out there for the faceoff only, that's all. (thinking back Winchester and O'Brien PKed, but did not play many games). Point is, being the #2 PK centre doesn't mean you're automatically a top 4 penalty killer.

On the fly, 2 wingers can be sent out there.
Maybe the Sens do it that way, I wouldn't know. I do know the Habs well enough to tell you that's not how it worked in Montreal, the center and winger roles on the PK are distinct.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
So why are we discrediting White, Bourque and Gionta? When they played, they were used as PKers more than Eller. Eller was the 7th most valued PKer on the Habs.

Are you telling me that if Gionta, for example, had played a full season, his PK ice time would have been lower than Eller's?
Yes. That's exactly what would have happened. At best they would be equal, with Gionta playing 2nd unit. The hierarchy of preference on the PK for forwards in MTL last year went like this.

Center: Plekanec, Eller, Nokelainen
Winger: Moen, Gionta/Darche, White/Bourque.

None of those wingers is ever going to play center on a MTL PK. None of those centers are ever going to play winger either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
A single season is small sample size?

Shots is not the same as scoring chances, like you're implying.

For the penalty kill, damn straight it is. Take a look at the huge fluctuations PK goals against numbers go through on a year to year basis. We're talking low double digit numbers of events for PK goals against in a single year, chance is bound to be a significant factor.

Shots data track scoring chances very well in the NHL game. They are a solid proxy. It also has the advantage of negating goaltender influences, which can be very large.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
There is a reason why Montreal had a good PK this year. And it's not Eller. It's Price, Gorges, and likely coaching.

It has nothing to do with Plekanec. Eller is 7th behind 6 other guys.
Eller being on the ice lead to some fantastic results. He was important. As was Plekanec (who is well established as one of the games top PK centers), as was Gorges and Subban, as was Price. You don't get to the top of the best league without a bunch of good pieces. That MTL could put its 2nd forward unit on and get as much effectiveness as the first was a factor in how they ended up so good. This especially helped as MTL's 2nd defensive pairing tended not to be as strong as its first.


White, Gionta, etc. They weren't in the lineup at many points and their absence wasn't felt on the PK.

You persist with this 7th ranked BS despite the correction of those that know better than you about how the MTL PK worked. The reason his minutes are lower is that he is a C and played behind a healthy 1C all season. You seem to think that they would put him as the top PK W if he was good, that isn't how it works.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
The reason Spezza is close to Turris is because Turris only played 49 games. The other 32 games, Spezza faced #1 lines, which boosted his QoC number.

When Turris was playing, Turris faced #1 lines, and Spezza #2 or 3.

And no I don't think Plekanec is a bad player. I realize playing with Bourque and Ryan White is not easy.
Turris's QoC is fairly close to the rest of Ottawa's top forwards. I'm sure he faced top opponents but he doesn't resemble the real heavy shutdown usage forwards that are out there like Bergeron or Backes for example.


If you know it isn't easy why make so much of how Turris succeed and Plekanec failed last year by your criteria? Their situations weren't analogous.

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11-25-2012, 04:49 PM
  #62
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I'd give up a good prospect and 3rd or a bottom six and maybe a 5th for Eller.

If Montreal wants more than that they can keep him.

Kind of confused why Montreal fans think the Blues are interested in trading away several good players for an Eller package? He's definitely not that enticing of a player.

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11-25-2012, 05:06 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
So you have no interest in Eller, and just decided to come into this thread to argue with Habs fans about how awful he is? Grow up guy.
Meanwhile you have Prairie Habs taking random shots at Turris because an Ottawa fan isn't really impressed by Eller. How about he grows up too?

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11-25-2012, 06:52 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
I'm not Mandy, I'm a dude. Unfortunately


''As has been demonstrated, Eller had less TOI on the PK than many less capable players due to position played vs player availability''

this makes no sense, because teams don't always have 1 winger and 1 centre on the PK. There can be 2 wingers. At any rate, Eller should have been equal to the theoretical #2 winger, right? Not so far behind.
I was just having fun with the name and the implication, no worries...

Listen, you don't like Eller. Fine. Just keep in mind that the fans of the two teams that know him best think he is far better than you do based on watching him play a lot of hockey. There are reasons why your stats fail, but you do not care, and that is fine. Just keep in mind, it was a Blues fan who offered an Eller (+Weber) for Shattenkirk deal, and not all Blues fans were against it. Also keep in mind that, as good as Shattenkirk is, not all Habs fans jumped on the deal. There is a reason for this.

Personally, I think that Eller will prove to be a bigger Plekanec. I even would be willing to trade Plekanec for the right package because I truly believe that Eller can step into the top 6 and do well as the #2 center.

The only reason I would consider the Shattenkirk for Eller and Weber deal would be to turn around and flip Shattenkirk (+ whatever was necessary) to a team in need of his type of player to improve our LW situation. I would try and find that deal, first, though. Just my opinion.

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11-25-2012, 07:04 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by ErikKarlsson View Post
Meanwhile you have Prairie Habs taking random shots at Turris because an Ottawa fan isn't really impressed by Eller. How about he grows up too?
No random shots were taken at Turris. He just stated that Eller has been better than Turris so far. Pretty inoccuous in my mind at least.

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And yes, he is better than Turris so far, who Ottawa fans are going mental over.

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11-25-2012, 07:20 PM
  #66
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No random shots were taken at Turris. He just stated that Eller has been better than Turris so far. Pretty inoccuous in my mind at least.
yeah because Turris is really related to the topic.

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11-25-2012, 07:56 PM
  #67
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If Galchenyuk develops as hoped, Plekanec, or DD will be expendable, not Eller. Eller's value is more to the habs than to any other team. Furthermore, we had to ship out a number 1 (or 1a/b if you please) goaltender for him. The other part we got is overweight and likely won't be re-signed when his contract is up.

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11-25-2012, 10:05 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by underslept View Post
Kind of confused why Montreal fans think the Blues are interested in trading away several good players for an Eller package? He's definitely not that enticing of a player.
Why would you be confused? A Blues fan started this thread and offered up Shattenkirk.

Habs fans are definitely not shopping him. Honestly why would we?

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11-26-2012, 04:53 AM
  #69
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I really want to see Shattenkirk in a Habs jersey, but I also want to keep Eller.

Then again...Louis Leblanc can replace Eller as a 3rd line center...imo.

Still...it would be funny if Eller went back to St-Louis!!

Would love to find another way to get Shattenkirk...
Desharnais + Weber + 3rd Rnd Pick
FOR
Shattenkirk

or

Desharnais + Diaz + 4th Rnd pick
FOR
Shattenkirk + 2nd or 3rd Rnd Pick 2013

I know...crazy proposals!! (but this is all fantasy world...like dungeons and dragons...!! can't take this stuff too seriously!!).

In the end...St-Louis keeps their Shattenkirk and Montreal keeps their Eller. (centers: Galchenyuk, Plekanec, Eller, L.Leblanc, ?Desharnais?...).

But, Shattenkirk for Eller would tempt me!! (mainly because I think L.Leblanc can replace Eller as a 3rd line center...1st Center) Galchenyuk...2nd Center) Plekanec...3rd Center) L.Leblanc...and Desharnais as a top 6 winger?).


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 11-26-2012 at 05:48 AM.
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11-26-2012, 11:43 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
I think the thread is on the rite path. How about Eller, Desharnais, Subban and a second for Perron, Bergulund and Shattenkirk.
This isn't really close at all. If you want those 3, take out Desharnais, add Galcheynuk and then a bit more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
I really want to see Shattenkirk in a Habs jersey, but I also want to keep Eller.

Then again...Louis Leblanc can replace Eller as a 3rd line center...imo.

Still...it would be funny if Eller went back to St-Louis!!

Would love to find another way to get Shattenkirk...
Desharnais + Weber + 3rd Rnd Pick
FOR
Shattenkirk

or

Desharnais + Diaz + 4th Rnd pick
FOR
Shattenkirk + 2nd or 3rd Rnd Pick 2013

I know...crazy proposals!! (but this is all fantasy world...like dungeons and dragons...!! can't take this stuff too seriously!!).

In the end...St-Louis keeps their Shattenkirk and Montreal keeps their Eller. (centers: Galchenyuk, Plekanec, Eller, L.Leblanc, ?Desharnais?...).

But, Shattenkirk for Eller would tempt me!! (mainly because I think L.Leblanc can replace Eller as a 3rd line center...1st Center) Galchenyuk...2nd Center) Plekanec...3rd Center) L.Leblanc...and Desharnais as a top 6 winger?).
St. Louis wouldn't do Shattenkirk for Eller straight up, Montreal would have to add quite a bit.

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11-26-2012, 12:40 PM
  #71
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The Habs: stars both present and future coming out of their ass yet still only last place in the East.

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11-26-2012, 01:06 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
The Habs: stars both present and future coming out of their ass yet still only last place in the East.
Not sure what that means, but if you meant they underachieved last year, I agree.

One of the biggest case for the last place finish was coaching, Randy Cunneyworth was flat out horrible, nice guy, put in a tough situation, but he was just horrible.

Under an NHL calibre coach ( Jacques Martin), the Habs were 13-12-7, and that was after a horrible 1-5-2 start to the year.

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11-26-2012, 01:07 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
The Habs: stars both present and future coming out of their ass yet still only last place in the East.
Are you referring to something else? Because no one claimed Eller to be a star in this thread nice try.

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11-26-2012, 01:19 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHabs61 View Post
Perron/Piet/Backes or nothing. I know the value is tilted in Habs favour, but they really have no reason to move Eller now. I'd rather have him than take a step back.
There is no way that Eller is anything more than an afterthought in a deal for Pietrangelo.

You would need to go with Patches + Galchenyuk ++++ to get the deal even started.

I don't know if Pietrangelo is underrated here or what, but I consider him to be a plane around what Doughty is (though just a tiny bit lower for now) and there is nobody that would ever say Doughty for Eller in a swap.

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11-26-2012, 01:36 PM
  #75
digdug41982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Are you referring to something else? Because no one claimed Eller to be a star in this thread nice try.
That guy at the beginning of the thread comparing Eller to Bolland made me facepalm.

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