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Gary Bettman and Donald Fehr; What happens next to them?

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Old
11-25-2012, 01:49 AM
  #26
GeeoffBrown
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there's a reasonable chance they will both be gone.

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11-25-2012, 02:40 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
I didn't know if we could throw this in the lockout thread but I got to wonder. When the lockout does get wrapped up (And it should), what happens to Bettman and Fehr? Do the players vote Fehr out? Will some owners break rank and start putting pressure to replace Bettman? Out of all the sports, Bettman has been the weakest and probably the worst commish in sports. Yes, even worse than Goddell (who ironically has the same powers as Bettman does and yet gets skewered more because he is more of the face of football), Stern, and Selig. None of them have had the work stoppages or been slow to react to the concussions or lose a major TV network in their tenure.

So what do you think happens next to the two major proponents of this lockout? (not what you want to happen but what do you think happens).
re: Fehr...he'll probably sail off into the sunset. I think he's done a fairly (lol "Fehrly") good job...he's 64...and could probably make pretty good $ on the lecture circuit.

re: Bettman...who knows. i think, like fehr, he's done a decent job. it will be up to the owners to decide whether they want him to continue on (and for him to decide whether he wants to headache much longer). Bettman's done a lot of good as commissioner...but is an inflammatory presence on the labour relations side of things - and after this is resolved i don't know if it's productive for him to continue on. he could probably be replaced by Daley, Batterman, or someone knew if the owners want a fresh presence. if/when bettman leaves he will be given a graceful and appreciative exit by the owners.

like fehr, he can probably make decent $ on the lecture circuit.

what i do not anticipate is any angry ouster of either of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Fehr will move onto the NBA next and ruin that sport.
awesome! w/ stern's retirement maybe bettman can head over there, too...fehr/bettman have gotten along so well this time round things it will be great to see them again next nba negotiation


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Old
11-25-2012, 02:58 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Tim Erixons Dad View Post
Yes of course, everybody but the players, they are quite serious, otherwise they wouldn't have hired Don Fehr in the first place. They will be quite shocked and angry when they get their ***** kicked again, no doubt.

Why would they hire Fehr if they knew they would lose, that makes no sense. If they knew how screwed they were they'd be playing right now. No, they are quite serious even if they are a joke to most people who are following the situation closely.
Of course the players knew they were going to lose % of HRR. The players know right now that they are going to lose HHR %, but there is still strong support for the man.

Losing is a subjective term especially in collective bargaining negotiations. The players were going to "lose" if their share went to 52, 50 or 48 percent, but Fehr is making sure that the players dont have to lose any more than they have to. And the players knew that their share was going to go down, even their first proposal acknowledged such.

Fehr is the most experienced sports union leader out there, and despite your obvious disdain for the man, he has strong approval from his employers.

Not sure what the players being "serious" about something even means...

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11-25-2012, 03:20 AM
  #29
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It's kind of hard to predict Bettman's fate, because with the tight ship the owners run, we have no real idea what kind of advice he has been giving to the owners, vs what kind of directions they have been giving him.

But the fact is, the owners voted 30 to 0 (I guess 29 to 0 at the moment) to initiate a lockout, so it would be fairly illogical for them to blame Bettman for doing what they explicitly and unanimously told him to do. That would essentially mean they're firing someone for their own decision. If they feel that he gave them bad advice prior to that decision, then maybe it could be arguably fair to get rid of him (although you'd have to think 29 highly successful businessmen are also doing their own due diligence before voting on such an important matter, and not just relying on their hired help's opinions). Of course, it's also within the owners' power to get rid of the guy for irrational reasons, if they so choose.

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11-25-2012, 03:45 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taunting canadian View Post
It's kind of hard to predict Bettman's fate, because with the tight ship the owners run, we have no real idea what kind of advice he has been giving to the owners, vs what kind of directions they have been giving him.

But the fact is, the owners voted 30 to 0 (I guess 29 to 0 at the moment) to initiate a lockout, so it would be fairly illogical for them to blame Bettman for doing what they explicitly and unanimously told him to do. That would essentially mean they're firing someone for their own decision. If they feel that he gave them bad advice prior to that decision, then maybe it could be arguably fair to get rid of him (although you'd have to think 29 highly successful businessmen are also doing their own due diligence before voting on such an important matter, and not just relying on their hired help's opinions). Of course, it's also within the owners' power to get rid of the guy for irrational reasons, if they so choose.
They voted on lockout vs playing with the old CBA. Not on the negotiating strategy...

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Old
11-25-2012, 07:22 AM
  #31
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Can't believe Bettman is 60 years old. And Fehr is 64. Those two are pretty close to retiring if you ask me.
Not to break your heart but Bud Selig is 75 and he hasn't retired yet, although he may in a year or two.

I almost think the owners need to throw Bettman overboard when this is over as a good-faith gesture to the fans (and the PA) who can't stand him with all the anger over this lockout, but they probably won't do that for obvious selfish reasons.

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11-25-2012, 07:30 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Before this summer I think Bettman was as safe as they come but I'm not sure anymore. He's read the situation very poorly and it's cost the league a lot of money. He's basically tried to roll over a guy who has one trick, and that's to never allow himself to be rolled over.

Fehr has been equally poor. He's pretty much done nothing to get a deal done. He's basically playing chicken with the players picking up the tab. Some will of course interpret this as him being a negotiation jedi while it's becoming clearer with every day that he's a dinosaur.

A deal will get done that's not all that great for either party. A deal that's not great for either party could have been reached in August if these two guys weren't set on a fight.
Excellent post....couldn't agree more...

As long as both are gone whenever the next CBA is up, I will be happy...Fehr is arrogant and doesn't give a crap, and Bettman's time is up, he cares, but it's time for a change....

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Old
11-25-2012, 10:00 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taunting canadian View Post
It's kind of hard to predict Bettman's fate, because with the tight ship the owners run, we have no real idea what kind of advice he has been giving to the owners, vs what kind of directions they have been giving him.

But the fact is, the owners voted 30 to 0 (I guess 29 to 0 at the moment) to initiate a lockout, so it would be fairly illogical for them to blame Bettman for doing what they explicitly and unanimously told him to do. That would essentially mean they're firing someone for their own decision. If they feel that he gave them bad advice prior to that decision, then maybe it could be arguably fair to get rid of him (although you'd have to think 29 highly successful businessmen are also doing their own due diligence before voting on such an important matter, and not just relying on their hired help's opinions). Of course, it's also within the owners' power to get rid of the guy for irrational reasons, if they so choose.
It was reported as 30-0 but what else would you expect; 20-10, 16-15? of course, the league would report the decision as unanimous but I, for one, don't believe for a minute all 30 (or 29) owners wanted a lock-out. Off the top of my head, I'd expect the Leafs, Canadiens, Rangers, Jets, Kings, Penguins and Canucks were not all that enamoured with the decision.

As for Fehr and Bettman, I believe Fehr had already indicated at some point he was retiring once this was done (his brother is scheduled to take over). And my guess is Bettman will be honourably discharged with all sorts of platitudes and a pretty good severance package, likely before the end of 2013.

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11-25-2012, 10:10 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by moosehead81 View Post
It was reported as 30-0 but what else would you expect; 20-10, 16-15? of course, the league would report the decision as unanimous but I, for one, don't believe for a minute all 30 (or 29) owners wanted a lock-out. Off the top of my head, I'd expect the Leafs, Canadiens, Rangers, Jets, Kings, Penguins and Canucks were not all that enamoured with the decision.

As for Fehr and Bettman, I believe Fehr had already indicated at some point he was retiring once this was done (his brother is scheduled to take over). And my guess is Bettman will be honourably discharged with all sorts of platitudes and a pretty good severance package, likely before the end of 2013.
I should have added that Bettman seems to have been the lightning rod for the players' distrust of the league. Can't see him continuing for long after, given how far he has alienated the players. Not sure how this would continue to play out if or when they get back to playing.

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11-25-2012, 10:22 AM
  #35
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How can Bettman's employers like him if so many of them are losing money? I am just asking. I just don't understand that part. If he does not get them a good CBA this time, he must be finished.

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11-25-2012, 10:27 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Suntouchable13 View Post
How can Bettman's employers like him if so many of them are losing money? I am just asking. I just don't understand that part. If he does not get them a good CBA this time, he must be finished.
That's why like I said in the other thread I don't entirely buy all these teams that are supposedly losing money. I think if you ever had a list of those teams, it would be utterly laughable some of the ones on the list.

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11-25-2012, 11:25 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post

So what do you think happens next to the two major proponents of this lockout? (not what you want to happen but what do you think happens).
Kenny vs Spenny remake


By the may, Fehr is NOT a proponent of the lockout

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11-25-2012, 11:55 AM
  #38
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There is no systemic reason why the NHL should be more prone to labor stoppages than the NBA, NFL, or MLB. For me, that's reason enough for Bettman to get the ol' heave-ho.

What the NHL would benefit from is a commissioner who can represent the owners' interests in a more diplomatic manner.

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11-25-2012, 12:20 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Before this summer I think Bettman was as safe as they come but I'm not sure anymore. He's read the situation very poorly and it's cost the league a lot of money. He's basically tried to roll over a guy who has one trick, and that's to never allow himself to be rolled over.

Fehr has been equally poor. He's pretty much done nothing to get a deal done. He's basically playing chicken with the players picking up the tab. Some will of course interpret this as him being a negotiation jedi while it's becoming clearer with every day that he's a dinosaur.

A deal will get done that's not all that great for either party. A deal that's not great for either party could have been reached in August if these two guys weren't set on a fight.
i tend to agree with this. last lockout, the owners got what they needed in the salary cap and the players got that 57% share which has treated them well. this time around though, id say at this point with the damage already done as well as no chance to salvage a full season, the deal isnt going to be overly thrilling for either side.

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11-25-2012, 12:24 PM
  #40
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I can see Fehr sticking around, but Gary needs to go. He's become too much of a polarizing figure.
He's become a good argument for the commissioner position, NOT being, only the voice of the owners.

I get a chuckle when the captain of the Stanley Cup winning team rips the Cup out of Gary's hands before he's finished his speech.

IF he's still around for the next Cup presentation, what d'ya think the over/under line will be for the Cup-removal-from-the-commish?

I say it'll be right after "Ladies and Gentlemen...".

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11-25-2012, 01:45 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Suntouchable13 View Post
How can Bettman's employers like him if so many of them are losing money? I am just asking. I just don't understand that part. If he does not get them a good CBA this time, he must be finished.
It would be even worse if the league was still run like it was in the 90's

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11-25-2012, 02:10 PM
  #42
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I think Bettman's safety depends on the post-lockout revenue picture. If the large market teams feel like they lost too much revenue from Bettman's protracted negotiations, they'll sack him.

We talk about the players being unhappy about repeated lockouts, but tons of owners have stakes in their arenas and concessions. They lose hand over fist too. I suspect what most of the owners really wanted was a quick tweak, not to utterly break the union's will over an entire lost season.

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11-25-2012, 02:23 PM
  #43
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I doubt Bettman is gone after this.

The players have no leverage, and are almost certainly going to lose this. Their only hope is if a majority of the owners (everyone but the hardliners) get together and demand that Bettman negotiate in PA language. In which case, Bettman is simply following orders, and his job is fairly secure.

On the other side of the coin, since the players have no leverage, all Fehr can do is sit and wait rather than actually negotiating. It's pissed off the fans, is pissing off the owners and will eventually piss off the players. It's a polarizing tactic that will assure his dismissal, unless the players sweep the owners (which won't happen).

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11-25-2012, 03:10 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Kenny vs Spenny remake
Okay Captain Bob, that was pretty good..

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11-25-2012, 03:10 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Suntouchable13 View Post
How can Bettman's employers like him if so many of them are losing money? I am just asking. I just don't understand that part. If he does not get them a good CBA this time, he must be finished.

Perhaps it because very few are not accumulating wealth via ownership of their hockey team. The owners have not really come out and said that this is because all teams cant compete with the necessary revenue sharing. They have allowed that to be leaked, but then they immediately repudiate Forbes as having never seen their books. What they have said is that they feel they are paying the players too much and since the other leagues locked out or threatened it and won concessions, they want that part of their cba's too.

If the result of these negotiations is that the owners end up with $2bil more of the pie over the life of the agreement than they otherwise would have, they would surely lose $20mil a day for a quite a few days to get it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkychewbarky View Post
I get a chuckle when the captain of the Stanley Cup winning team rips the Cup out of Gary's hands before he's finished his speech.

IF he's still around for the next Cup presentation, what d'ya think the over/under line will be for the Cup-removal-from-the-commish?

I say it'll be right after "Ladies and Gentlemen...".
I think this is a pretty common player fantasy. Bettman calls for the captain and a retiring goon comes out to take the trophy.

If the owners want to find a way to prevent boycotts of their return, perhaps they should have Bettman stand at centre ice at each arena when the "Thank you fans" is revealed in the ice. I'd show up for that game.

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11-25-2012, 04:13 PM
  #46
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I can see Bettman stepping down when the lockout is over. The guy will be commish for 20 years so there's really nothing more he can do in the game. I think Fehr stays another 2-3 years though.

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11-25-2012, 04:49 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
You can slam Bettman and for good reasons. However does anyone who posts here really truly remember what the NHL was like before Bettman? The pay, the leagues health, the marketing, the coverage, the owners?

Do a little research and educate yourself before you spit out nonsense that Bettman has been soooooo bad for the game of hockey and the NHL.


In a vacuum of cherry picking the negative it's so easy to say he's the antichrist of Commisioners.
yeah.... that john ziegler dude was a great president....lol....

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11-25-2012, 04:49 PM
  #48
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Fehr will move onto the NBA next and ruin that sport.
the nba is already ruined...lol......

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11-25-2012, 05:16 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
I think his expansion was ridiculous. The game was more entertainment before he joined the NHl. It watered-down and more dull than ever.

The game makes more money now because the Canadian dollar exploded. That's it. Their tv deal is worse than when he joined them.
But it wasn't Bettman, it was the owners and Zeigler who controlled the expansion.

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11-25-2012, 08:30 PM
  #50
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The game makes more money now because the Canadian dollar exploded. That's it. Their tv deal is worse than when he joined them.
Uhh - NO.

When GB joined, the NHL was still recovering from the '89-91 SportsChannel America debacle. It hadn't had a real US national broadcast deal since NBC & Peter Puck in the 70's. It's deal with ESPN paid only $12.5M/yr and it's deal wan't even exclusive - the '94 SCF was not shown on ESPN in NY, it was shown on MSG and blacked out on ESPN.

Bettman got the NHL it's first real network deal in almost 20 years when he negotiated the $31M/yr deal with FOX, followed by the $120M/yr deal on ABC/ESPN.

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