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Luongo thread continued...

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Old
11-30-2012, 08:44 PM
  #601
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Anyways, Luongo's cap hit is low compared to what he brings to the table.

Rinne, Lundqvist, Price, Ward, Miller, Backstrom, Kiprusoff, Bryzgalov, and Quick, Lehtonen after their extensions kick in.

So Luongo as a starter would have a middle-of-the-pack cap hit.
This is true that Luongo cap hit is now reasonable.

Really the big problem is the asset asked to acquire him.

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11-30-2012, 08:55 PM
  #602
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Anyways, Luongo's cap hit is low compared to what he brings to the table.

Rinne, Lundqvist, Price, Ward, Miller, Backstrom, Kiprusoff, Bryzgalov, and Quick, Lehtonen after their extensions kick in.

So Luongo as a starter would have a middle-of-the-pack cap hit.
Except I would rather have any of those(except Bryz) then Luongo. And no his Cap isn't particularly low for what he brings.

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11-30-2012, 09:00 PM
  #603
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Except I would rather have any of those(except Bryz) then Luongo. And no his Cap isn't particularly low for what he brings.

His cap hit isn't just low, it's the lowest one could expect to pay for a legit starter on a long-term deal. I would be surprised if any such player signed for just 5.3m (across the same cap percentage).


But if you would rather have any one of the others, why be concerned with what is going on in this thread? If one of the others could be had, I'm sure Burke could swing the deal?...

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11-30-2012, 09:02 PM
  #604
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Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
Except I would rather have any of those(except Bryz) then Luongo. And no his Cap isn't particularly low for what he brings.
You don't think Luongo is even a top-10 goalie? No wonder you're reluctant to give up value for him if you'd actually prefer someone like Backstrom to him.

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11-30-2012, 09:04 PM
  #605
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If i was a GM interested in Luongo (or any goalie) i would give a shoot to my current goalie and wait until summer 2013 to make my move.

Summer 2013 there should be some interesting option around for a goalie.
(well, unless a full year lockout and CBA change something).

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11-30-2012, 09:10 PM
  #606
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If i was a GM interested in Luongo (or any goalie) i would give a shoot to my current goalie and wait until summer 2013 to make my move.

Summer 2013 there should be some interesting option around for a goalie.
(well, unless a full year lockout and CBA change something).
Well, UFAs that year have only Backstrom, Howard, and Smith as viable options. And I'd assume that they's all be re-signed by their current teams, but if Smith or Howard leave, it simply opens up another team in need of a goaltender.

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11-30-2012, 09:12 PM
  #607
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
You don't think Luongo is even a top-10 goalie? No wonder you're reluctant to give up value for him if you'd actually prefer someone like Backstrom to him.
No i don't think he's a top 10 goalie anymore. he's aging and will seriously start to decline soon.

Thomas,Miller,Kiprusoff,Ward,Lehtonen,Quick,Backst rom,Price,Rinne,Lundqvist,Halak, are all better then him in my opinion. then you got Howard,Smith,Bryzgalov,Fleury who could be argued that are better then Luongo.

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11-30-2012, 09:13 PM
  #608
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Well, UFAs that year have only Backstrom, Howard, and Smith as viable options. And I'd assume that they's all be re-signed by their current teams, but if Smith or Howard leave, it simply opens up another team in need of a goaltender.
Thomas? Theodore?

New goalie could also pop up, like Markstrom. RFA like Enroth, Bernier or Bachman could be available.

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11-30-2012, 09:14 PM
  #609
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Thomas?
I said viable options, and I don't think he will be. Anything's possible though, I guess.

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11-30-2012, 09:14 PM
  #610
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Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
No i don't think he's a top 10 goalie anymore. he's aging and will seriously start to decline soon.

Thomas,Miller,Kiprusoff,Ward,Lehtonen,Quick,Backst rom,Price,Rinne,Lundqvist,Halak, are all better then him in my opinion. then you got Howard,Smith,Bryzgalov,Fleury who could be argued that are better then Luongo.

Of course you will get a disagreement there, but in saying that, I'll be looking forward to Burke getting any one of the options listed. Surely, he can snag one of those guys?


A Bryz trade to TO should occur shouldn't it?

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11-30-2012, 09:16 PM
  #611
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Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
No i don't think he's a top 10 goalie anymore. he's aging and will seriously start to decline soon.

Thomas,Miller,Kiprusoff,Ward,Lehtonen,Quick,Backst rom,Price,Rinne,Lundqvist,Halak, are all better then him in my opinion. then you got Howard,Smith,Bryzgalov,Fleury who could be argued that are better then Luongo.
I'll just say that I strongly disagree and leave it at that.

Random trivia: Luongo's ES sv% over the past three years is second only to Lundqvist.

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11-30-2012, 09:17 PM
  #612
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
You don't think Luongo is even a top-10 goalie? No wonder you're reluctant to give up value for him if you'd actually prefer someone like Backstrom to him.
yeah, there's a significant contingent who refuse to see luongo as anything but a combination of:
a) on a bad contract -- long, handcuffing and too much $ (my fav is the consternation over the $6.7M in 'real $$' as if any of us give a crap if our owners dont)
b) in decline
c) a choker who will hurt their team more than help

whether it's out of dislike (there are simply a lot of Luo haters ... he has admittedly made it easy for them at times) or to justify a low-ball, there is no moving some ppl, despite the fairly clear facts that:

a) the cheater contract is an advantageous thing, hence the league trying to do away w it
b) his performance by all statistical measures is rock solid consistent with no signs of decline, and there are no analogs in NHL history of goalies of his calibre suddenly cratering in their mid 30s... .ergo, he is a steal for 3-4 years anyway, then a bit of a question mark for 1-2, then there are multiple outs on the deal.
c) despite highly visible playoff disappointments, there is no denying he is by far the most impactful factor in taking the Canucks from a mediocre up&comer to elite status, right to the 7th game of SCF, as far as the team's ever gone....

i have no doubt that whatever team lands him will benefit greatly ...
another take that gives a semi-objective gauge of his worth -- who plays fantasy hockey? Most, I'll bet. Where does Luo go in terms of goalies drafted and how does he do for you? Maybe behind Lundy, Quick, Rinne ...not too many more ...he helped me win my league last year -- he is a stud, lets not freaking kid ourselves...

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11-30-2012, 09:18 PM
  #613
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I'll just say that I strongly disagree and leave it at that.

Random trivia: Luongo's ES sv% over the past three years is second only to Lundqvist.
What about Vokoun, Thomas, Halak or Rinne??

3th ?

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11-30-2012, 09:20 PM
  #614
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
If i was a GM interested in Luongo (or any goalie) i would give a shoot to my current goalie and wait until summer 2013 to make my move.

Summer 2013 there should be some interesting option around for a goalie.
(well, unless a full year lockout and CBA change something).
That always goes over well with owners and fans, lets wait 'til next year.

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11-30-2012, 09:21 PM
  #615
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What about Vokoun, Thomas or Rinne??

3th ?
Rinne 3rd, Vokoun 4th. Thomas wasn't included on the list I saw.

The point being having Luongo outside the top-10 goaltenders is absurd.

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11-30-2012, 09:24 PM
  #616
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Of course you will get a disagreement there, but in saying that, I'll be looking forward to Burke getting any one of the options listed. Surely, he can snag one of those guys?


A Bryz trade to TO should occur shouldn't it?
Unfortunately, Teams aren't willing to part with #1 Goalies so easily. And I in no way want Bryz in T.O. It'll be a circus. The media will have a field day.

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11-30-2012, 09:24 PM
  #617
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Rinne 3rd, Vokoun 4th. Thomas wasn't included on the list I saw.

The point being having Luongo outside the top-10 goaltenders is absurd.
i would like to see the link to your source.

its the kind of list that i find interesting.

Also it would be interesting to study the opposition Luongo faced.

Northwest division was the weakest one offensively last season.

I wonder how Minnesota Acquisition and the Oilers getting mature will affect that.

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11-30-2012, 09:25 PM
  #618
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i would like to see the link to your source.

its the kind of list that i find interesting.
http://theleafsnation.com/2012/11/30...ies-in-the-nhl

#5 will cause a bit of a ruckus, I suppose... I think that the sample size is still too small before it can be accurate for him.

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11-30-2012, 09:26 PM
  #619
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I'll just say that I strongly disagree and leave it at that.

Random trivia: Luongo's ES sv% over the past three years is second only to Lundqvist.
Which means he probably insulated from the team in front of him, Out of curiosity where does his SH sv% rank?

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11-30-2012, 09:29 PM
  #620
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Which means he probably insulated from the team in front of him
Just like when he was in Florida

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11-30-2012, 09:30 PM
  #621
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
http://theleafsnation.com/2012/11/30...ies-in-the-nhl

#5 will cause a bit of a ruckus, I suppose... I think that the sample size is still too small before it can be accurate for him.

Thank!

To Everyone, Reimer is a top 5 goalie in the NHL

I seriously agree with the sample size statement..but it could go both way....maybe he is even better than that

Maybe its part of the reason why Burke didn't acquire a new goalie yet and didn't gave up on Reimer: last season is a small sample.

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11-30-2012, 09:33 PM
  #622
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Just like when he was in Florida
Except he was actually a Top-5 goalie when he was with Florida

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11-30-2012, 09:38 PM
  #623
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Which means he probably insulated from the team in front of him, Out of curiosity where does his SH sv% rank?
I don't know. I just happened to have seen the previous link recently on our boards a few hours ago. I'm not a real stat junkie or anything. Although I do think SH sv% is far more reflective of the teams PK as a whole than the goaltender. More quality shots allowed = lower sv%, whereas ES sv% is more universal, as the average quality of shots faced regresses towards the mean. Maybe someone on the "By the numbers" section can tell you more.

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11-30-2012, 09:46 PM
  #624
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Luongo is a useless old man with bad work habits and a bad attitude, that rides the sucess of great teams. He did it in the Olympics, he did it for the Canucks. Schneider's coming of age means Luongo's value is way down. Luongo would be worth more if he was a UFA in a year. He chokes in every big game, and is the only goalie in the league that can annually post bloated stats equal to the elite goalies... while not actually playing at an elite level. It was only rioting Canucks fans and know-nuttin' Panthers noobs that voted for Luongo to be an allstar. There is nothing good about Luongo or his contract, which is mysteriously no longer cap-circumventing. He actually has negative value.

....and yet teams are still interested...

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11-30-2012, 09:48 PM
  #625
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Unfortunately, Teams aren't willing to part with #1 Goalies so easily. And I in no way want Bryz in T.O. It'll be a circus. The media will have a field day.


Really? Teams aren't willing to part with their #1 starters? But I thought they were just going to be waiting there at the end of 2013, like Palindrom said?



If #1's aren't easy to acquire, maybe it might be a good idea to go after one when one is available. i.e. Luongo. Or Thomas if he decides he's no longer a flake.



Quote:
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Thank!

To Everyone, Reimer is a top 5 goalie in the NHL

I seriously agree with the sample size statement..but it could go both way....maybe he is even better than that

Maybe its part of the reason why Burke didn't acquire a new goalie yet and didn't gave up on Reimer: last season is a small sample.


What do you think the reason would be for Burke to continue to phone Gillis about Luongo? Rumoured twice. Latest rumour has him increasing his offer over that of EDM. Could it be that he has had enough of a sample on Reimer to understand that he needs an upgrade? I think so.

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