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Luongo thread continued...

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Old
11-26-2012, 10:01 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
The fact that Burke took the entire summer to "negotiate" only makes him look more suspect to me. The opportunity was there. The target was there. The need is there. So what stopped him from consummating the deal? IMO it's just Burke trying to get a dollar for a penny, that's all. And it is completely the wrong tact to take with a GM that is already not his biggest fan. IMO, Burke played this wrong and the lockout only compounds the issue. If he had finally got things right, Lu would be a leaf right now.
The urgency. Neither side was in any hurry to get a deal done because there was no season looming in the October. I imagine if there wasn't a lockout Burke would have showed more haste in negotiating a trade, but as it stands he had every reason to wait until a new CBA was ratified before consummating any deal.

When you're working on negotiating a price down, time is often your friend. The way the negotiations were presented to us over the summer; Burke initially offered the best deal before Edmonton stepped in and upped the ante, at which point in time Burke stepped up his offer to either match or surpass Edmonton. However none of those offers were acceptable to Gillis, so no deal was made.

It would make sense that Burke was in no hurry to go any higher. When you think you have the highest offer on the table, and there's no urgency to get a deal done, why would you offer more to finalize the deal? Makes more sense to wait for Gillis to come down in price, or an urgency to trade to present itself.

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11-26-2012, 10:03 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
Luongo
Krajicek
6th rounder -

for

Bertuzzi
Allen
Auld

In a deal many considered lopsided for Vancouver

Having said that Bertuzzi was the besf PF in the game, all be it probably in need of a change, Allen was a 4th over all pick just coming into his own, and Auld, who was the Canucks starter. Today, this would be like:

Lupul - Probably not as valuable
Gardiner - probably close in value maybe worth a bit more
Reimer - Probably spot on

for
Luongo
Tanev - Probably worth more than Krajicek
6th rounder

And that would be considered a bad trade for a 27 year old Luongo who is an RFA unsigned, with 1 year until FA.
So, what would you consider it with a 33 year old Luongo with 10 years left? And i am not being argumentative, i realky can't remember, was that right after the Steve Moore thing?

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11-26-2012, 10:04 PM
  #128
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So, what would you consider it with a 33 year old Luongo with 10 years left? And i am not being argumentative, i realky can't remember, was that right after the Steve Moore thing?
No. It was over a year after. Bertuzzi had just put up a 70+ point season.

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11-26-2012, 10:05 PM
  #129
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so, what is the basis of the deal right now Lupul? Bozak? Kadri?

I have been looking through and I know it's been talked to death already but I am genuinly curious on what his perceived value is at this point. (barring any major CBA change)

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11-26-2012, 10:19 PM
  #130
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so, what is the basis of the deal right now Lupul? Bozak? Kadri?

I have been looking through and I know it's been talked to death already but I am genuinly curious on what his perceived value is at this point. (barring any major CBA change)
I suggested a simple deal, one that looks like this...


Luongo

for
Kadri/Colborne
Percy/1st in 2013 (top ten protected)


Vancouvers choice of package. If they wanted to make the deal bigger by adding in a salary dump like Raymond who's worn out his welcome, than Toronto could as well (Connolly/Lombardi).

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11-26-2012, 10:30 PM
  #131
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No. It was over a year after. Bertuzzi had just put up a 70+ point season.
If any thing, Bertuzzi > Lupul...and I'd say, Moore thing included, he would still have returned more as a player with a one year contract then Lupul now. I'd say by a significant margin, even enough to make up for the Gardiner vs. Allen discrepancy.

The Luongo vs. Luongo discrepancy (RFA with no reason to sign with Vancouver...and boy did we pay....versus his current life time contract) has gone unchecked.

And Tanev vs. Krajicek....I don't like that comparison at all, even for just straight value.

Reimer vs. Auld seems about the closest comparison here.

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11-26-2012, 10:33 PM
  #132
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Oh, and when was the last time a star goalie was dealt, and what was his corresponding value? Maybe we can work off that?
When was the last time a goalie, that hasn't been an All Star in three years, who has a clause in his contract that will allow him to dictate who his team could trade him to, possibly limiting it to two or three teams, who may or may not be interested?

Perhaps we can work off of that?

I respect your research, and passion, but at the end of the day, the price will be what the buyer and seller agrees to. Vancouver fans will likely conclude they didn't get enough, and Toronto fans will likely conclude it was too costly, if a deal happens.

The Leafs cannot afford to make a trade that will compromise their future. It is improbable that Burke will make a deal that includes the 2013 first round pick, that much I know. What I will also suggest, is that there are a number of variables at play here. The CBA and it's final contents will factor in. How will Luongo's contract be in the new CBA. Is it a benefit, or liability under the new terms?

Next, if the season is lost, it affects who the Leafs can trade. I've seen proposals here with Lupul, MacArthur, Lombardi, Connolly and Bozak. All of these guys would be UFA's if the season is lost, and unless resigned, couldn't be traded. Can't trade what isn't yours. Who does Burke plan or resigning, and who does he think he can land as a UFA? This all affects who he can believe he can trade without hurting the team in other areas. Similarly Vancouver has a bunch of UFA's, and what they might need now, could be vastly different than what they think they might need if a CBA deal isn't done until next summer.

All this back and forth is entertaining, but until there is a CBA, it is wasted debate.

It is clear that Toronto will need a goalie, and Vancouver really does need to trade Luongo. From that perspective the trade is a good fit. What the price will be.... as I've said, less than Vancouver fans will be happy with, and more than Toronto fans will be happy with.

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11-26-2012, 10:39 PM
  #133
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When was the last time a goalie, that hasn't been an All Star in three years, who has a clause in his contract that will allow him to dictate who his team could trade him to, possibly limiting it to two or three teams, who may or may not be interested?
Of all the arguments to discredit Luongo, the allstar game?

He finished top 3 in Vezina voting just 2 seasons ago.

For now Luongo hasn't made a list so teams who Luongo is unlikely to waive for (CBJ, TOR) could throw in an offer driving up his price much more than a publicized list.

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11-26-2012, 10:47 PM
  #134
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I believe I've heard somewhere that Luongo declines playing in all-star games.

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11-26-2012, 11:17 PM
  #135
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So, what would you consider it with a 33 year old Luongo with 10 years left? And i am not being argumentative, i realky can't remember, was that right after the Steve Moore thing?
As mentioned year after, with a 70 point season, still considered by many as the best PF in the game. I agree that his value is probably more than Lupul, but its an imperfect world.

I still personally like trading for futures out of the pieces you guys can part with. I don't completely remember the last one we agreed on, was it something like:
Kadri
Frattin
Percy or Blacker ( I know you wouldn't go for Finn)
and 1st (if it is protected, we get a second in this draft, and a 1st the following).
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
I suggested a simple deal, one that looks like this...

Luongo

for
Kadri/Colborne
Percy/1st in 2013 (top ten protected)

Vancouvers choice of package. If they wanted to make the deal bigger by adding in a salary dump like Raymond who's worn out his welcome, than Toronto could as well (Connolly/Lombardi).
Can I add it was laughed at by fans from NJ, Boston, and Col? Let alone Van fans

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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
If any thing, Bertuzzi > Lupul...and I'd say, Moore thing included, he would still have returned more as a player with a one year contract then Lupul now. I'd say by a significant margin, even enough to make up for the Gardiner vs. Allen discrepancy.

The Luongo vs. Luongo discrepancy (RFA with no reason to sign with Vancouver...and boy did we pay....versus his current life time contract) has gone unchecked.

And Tanev vs. Krajicek....I don't like that comparison at all, even for just straight value.

Reimer vs. Auld seems about the closest comparison here.
I agree it was not perfect, just the best comparison I could get with the parts available from all three teams.

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11-26-2012, 11:21 PM
  #136
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Of all the arguments to discredit Luongo, the allstar game?

He finished top 3 in Vezina voting just 2 seasons ago.

For now Luongo hasn't made a list so teams who Luongo is unlikely to waive for (CBJ, TOR) could throw in an offer driving up his price much more than a publicized list.

I didn't bring up being an All Star, that would be a Vancouver fan. It isn't a discredit, the poster mentioned Luongo was an All Star (present tense) and that we should use Goalies who were traded as All Stars in the past, to use as a comparison for what Luongo should fetch. I was merely suggesting if we were to attempt to find a comparison, it would need to be someone who was an All Star three seasons prior. Fair enough, throw in someone who finished third in the Vezina too.

I quite like Luongo, and would not discredit it here, or anywhere else.

My point being that this is a unique circumstance, and trying to find a comparison to create factual points is impossible.

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11-26-2012, 11:27 PM
  #137
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I don't share your optimism.







Interesting, Mike Gillis is on the hot seat for developing an asset so well that it has rendered his star goalie tradeable. Salary or not. That's just not a great reason to be mad at one's GM don't you think?



Make no mistake, the spotlight is on Burke right now. Another failed season could see him unceremoniously removed from his post. That's something Gillis is an ocean away from. This two things are not alike I'm afraid.








Is 5-6 years long-term?



Everyone wants a young NHL starter level goalie. They just aren't there to be had, unless you think Bernier is one? If you do, perhaps he might be a better option for TO.


So Bernier, Thomas, and Bryzgalov. Plenty of options there.
To your first point I do agree Burke job is no where safe. He needs to make the playoffs to save his job and that is what scares me the most.

2. Hockey is a business while it sounds like a great thing on paper do you really think an owner is going to enjoy paying a guy 10 million a year to not contribute to the teams success or would he rather have that cap space/money tied into something that is helping? Make no mistake I would love for Toronto to be in this situation as a fan but then again I am not the one paying the guy 10 million to sit around.


3. 5 to 6 years is long term. My problem is Lou is currently 33 years old and this team may only be competing for the cup in 5 to 6 years. Then we have this nice core of young guys ready to play but our goalie is on the outskirts. It just seems like by the time were are ready to compete Lou will be a moot point as we will be looking for that new young goalie. As you pointed out I am not against targeting a guy like Bernier honestly I would not mind us targeting or even a guy like Jack Campbell as I feel Dallas will lock up Kari long term.

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11-26-2012, 11:52 PM
  #138
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To your first point I do agree Burke job is no where safe. He needs to make the playoffs to save his job and that is what scares me the most.

2. Hockey is a business while it sounds like a great thing on paper do you really think an owner is going to enjoy paying a guy 10 million a year to not contribute to the teams success or would he rather have that cap space/money tied into something that is helping? Make no mistake I would love for Toronto to be in this situation as a fan but then again I am not the one paying the guy 10 million to sit around.


3. 5 to 6 years is long term. My problem is Lou is currently 33 years old and this team may only be competing for the cup in 5 to 6 years. Then we have this nice core of young guys ready to play but our goalie is on the outskirts. It just seems like by the time were are ready to compete Lou will be a moot point as we will be looking for that new young goalie. As you pointed out I am not against targeting a guy like Bernier honestly I would not mind us targeting or even a guy like Jack Campbell as I feel Dallas will lock up Kari long term.
Few things here, hockey is a business, but part of smart business is learning when it is smart to eat money. For instance say I have a house for sale. It should be worth 1 million dollars, but the only offers coming in are for half that. It could be worth the risk to hold onto the house for a certain amount of time and try to sell it when the market rebounds.

Some things for us to consider are where is that money going to go we trade Lui for? There is no assets out there for us to put Lui's money into. We either hold onto him, and use that money, or trade him and not use it.

Last it is not 10 million, it is either 6.7 million real dollars or 3.5 million real dollars. Once one is traded, the money of the other still stays there, I doubt we trade both.

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11-26-2012, 11:54 PM
  #139
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Some things for us to consider are where is that money going to go we trade Lui for? There is no assets out there for us to put Lui's money into. We either hold onto him, and use that money, or trade him and not use it.
Is there a CBA yet? If we lose the season, there are plenty of assets available...

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11-27-2012, 12:10 AM
  #140
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I believe I've heard somewhere that Luongo declines playing in all-star games.
Homer goggles, Elliot has played in 1 all star game in the last 3 years. Has Luongo? Didn't think so!

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11-27-2012, 12:24 AM
  #141
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I agree it was not perfect, just the best comparison I could get with the parts available from all three teams.
Oh no, far from a criticism on my part, believe it or not, but, well, it's a package like that that we would need back, and my point was we're not even getting that in our requests. There isn't enough that Toronto would give up to make up what we've invested to get him that way, so I guess it's a flawed comparison on my part now. Younger with no contract vs. older for life.

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Homer goggles, Elliot has played in 1 all star game in the last 3 years. Has Luongo? Didn't think so!
I know you're joking, but please don't make posts like these. People will use them as argument to lower his value

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11-27-2012, 12:32 AM
  #142
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Few things here, hockey is a business, but part of smart business is learning when it is smart to eat money. For instance say I have a house for sale. It should be worth 1 million dollars, but the only offers coming in are for half that. It could be worth the risk to hold onto the house for a certain amount of time and try to sell it when the market rebounds.

Some things for us to consider are where is that money going to go we trade Lui for? There is no assets out there for us to put Lui's money into. We either hold onto him, and use that money, or trade him and not use it.

Last it is not 10 million, it is either 6.7 million real dollars or 3.5 million real dollars. Once one is traded, the money of the other still stays there, I doubt we trade both.
Do you seriously think someone is going to enjoy having Lou sit on the bench making 6.7 million? I mean sure for the first half of the season it may be okay but I can't see the Canucks sitting on it for too long.

Well seeing how your number is coming from next year pay drop I am guessing you are expecting no season so I guess UFA is coming up. Seems to me there is a nice few names out there I.E Cory Perry. I would guess you would like the space to take a run at him rather than the 5.8 million back up?

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11-27-2012, 12:34 AM
  #143
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Is there a CBA yet? If we lose the season, there are plenty of assets available...
We are currently speculating on the now. If we lose a year and we have a shot at getting Perry, well all bets are off I guess, but both of those things are a fairly long shot at this moment. I think throwing out the line well we don't know what the CBA looks like is kind of stupid. I mean I understand it, but if any of us really thought it, why would we be here? I could use this in any thread on this board. I don't know, just my thoughts, the best we can do is speculate on what we know... which may be not much.

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11-27-2012, 12:39 AM
  #144
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Do you seriously think someone is going to enjoy having Lou sit on the bench making 6.7 million? I mean sure for the first half of the season it may be okay but I can't see the Canucks sitting on it for too long.

Well seeing how your number is coming from next year pay drop I am guessing you are expecting no season so I guess UFA is coming up. Seems to me there is a nice few names out there I.E Cory Perry. I would guess you would like the space to take a run at him rather than the 5.8 million back up?
You are mixing tings up. First I actually do think there will be a season, I think the owners know exactly when this will be. They have their own date in their heads, and when we reach that date we will see a deal.

Second, I think there is a lot of time we can hold onto him at this point. That is the point. It would be great if we could get this deal done ASAP, but if not, we can hold onto him for an extended period of time.

Put it this way, IF a deal is not there right away, and a deal of Petrovic Shore, and a goalie from FLA is there, might as well roll with them for the first bit of a condensed season, giving Cory the rest he may need if we go on a deep run in the playoffs. Trade him for that package at the deadline.

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11-27-2012, 12:49 AM
  #145
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Actually, i have said his contract is ideal for a team like TO. I have also said Luongo would be a good fit here. But how can you go from admitting the price was to high (Gillis' price) to saying if Burke had gotten it right Luongo would be in TO?The fact Burke toom the entire summer would be because of the CBA talks...no?



Burke _chose_ to allow CBA talks to become a factor, which is dubious in of itself. Think about it. The landscape is that you are the sole team with the greatest need, and VAN has the clearest upgrade. No other suitors are clear favourites, not even FLA. So Burke's best idea is to become subject to a changing landscape, where the position of teams will change and ability of VAN to move Luongo (having to take on the extra years making his contract phenomenal) likely increases? This is smart how?



All Burke had to do was get close without breaking the bank. I have no doubt in my mind that Gardiner is the sticking point between these teams. And if he is, Burke could remove him by throwing _extra_ value overall, or by including him and reducing the surrounding assets in the deal. Meaning, there are options. But yet he chose to stay conservative for 3 months hoping the landscape still favours him after all is said and done? Highly doubtful. Again, there was no smoke on this until Shannon said something well into the lockout.

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11-27-2012, 12:52 AM
  #146
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so, what is the basis of the deal right now Lupul? Bozak? Kadri?

I have been looking through and I know it's been talked to death already but I am genuinly curious on what his perceived value is at this point. (barring any major CBA change)
I don't know why you want those players so badly. If you go down the list of players individually, there are probably no players that interest Mike Gillis. But Then Toronto will have to put together a "package" of players, but then you will have a package of players that MIke Gillis have no interest in. Luongo to Toronto is like probably never going to happen.

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11-27-2012, 01:10 AM
  #147
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Do you seriously think someone is going to enjoy having Lou sit on the bench making 6.7 million? I mean sure for the first half of the season it may be okay but I can't see the Canucks sitting on it for too long.

Well seeing how your number is coming from next year pay drop I am guessing you are expecting no season so I guess UFA is coming up. Seems to me there is a nice few names out there I.E Cory Perry. I would guess you would like the space to take a run at him rather than the 5.8 million back up?
Sitting out, at most, 50 games a season, versus pissing the money away on redundant assets?

And no UFA's isn't the end of the world to us...it's not how we've watched Gillis build this team. Hamhuis, Malhotra, Garrison....and really that's it. Sundin, Demitra and Samuelsson have been added in the past too, but exactly one of those players is still a high calibre enough to be assured a spot in our top ten best players. We have a few guys that will be pushing for a roster spot as soon as next year as well, on ELCs, as well as contracts coming off the books or that can be jettisoned cheaply if Perry or someone comes up as free.

Telling us we have to, or trying to convince us that we have to, move Luongo for cap reasons just makes for a bad, cyclical argument. We've covered it, we're good, we're not dumping him for junk.

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11-27-2012, 01:23 AM
  #148
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The urgency. Neither side was in any hurry to get a deal done because there was no season looming in the October. I imagine if there wasn't a lockout Burke would have showed more haste in negotiating a trade, but as it stands he had every reason to wait until a new CBA was ratified before consummating any deal.

When you're working on negotiating a price down, time is often your friend. The way the negotiations were presented to us over the summer; Burke initially offered the best deal before Edmonton stepped in and upped the ante, at which point in time Burke stepped up his offer to either match or surpass Edmonton. However none of those offers were acceptable to Gillis, so no deal was made.

It would make sense that Burke was in no hurry to go any higher. When you think you have the highest offer on the table, and there's no urgency to get a deal done, why would you offer more to finalize the deal? Makes more sense to wait for Gillis to come down in price, or an urgency to trade to present itself.




This is the divide between our thinking: The landscape was most favourable for Burke in the offseason. From now on, new factors will be in play:


- Urgency. As in actually losing games while waiting on Gillis.

- The new CBA. If Gillis has to take on the remaining years on the cap, guess what? The price just went up.

- The play of other teams. Who knows? Maybe Tallon becomes acutely aware that he needs a goaltending upgrade? Or another team comes to the fore.

- Asset fluctuation. What if Gardiner falls flat in his sophomore season? Now the valuation of assets changes the dynamic of the deal. Conversely, Lu has been pretty consistent over the years. Odds are his play doesn't fluctuate as drastically.

- He's likely not going to know what other teams are offering. So to remain static until another team ups their offer is the wrong strategy. He's still dealing in the dark.



These things, among other factors, can cause the landscape to change to Burke's detriment. He's already climbing uphill IMO by having the greatest current need and known animosity with Gillis. Add in a few more things and any potential to this deal will be squandered. IMO, Burke waited too long... so let's see what happens now.

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11-27-2012, 02:11 AM
  #149
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This is the divide between our thinking: The landscape was most favourable for Burke in the offseason. From now on, new factors will be in play:


- Urgency. As in actually losing games while waiting on Gillis.
Agreed. As I said, once the season comes into sight I think Burke will negotiate more feverishly.

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- The new CBA. If Gillis has to take on the remaining years on the cap, guess what? The price just went up.
Not if the asking price was Rielly, Gardiner, Bozak and Frattin. I mean really, how much higher can it go? Regardless of the new CBA, the price must come down from there if Gillis wants to move Luongo.

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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
- The play of other teams. Who knows? Maybe Tallon becomes acutely aware that he needs a goaltending upgrade? Or another team comes to the fore.
Likewise it's possible Reimer plays well and Toronto doesn't need an upgrade afterall. It's unlikely, but possible. As you said, who knows? However I'd still be shocked if a team has serious enough goaltending woes out of the gate to offer up a package like the one Gillis was demanding.

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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
- Asset fluctuation. What if Gardiner falls flat in his sophomore season? Now the valuation of assets changes the dynamic of the deal. Conversely, Lu has been pretty consistent over the years. Odds are his play doesn't fluctuate as drastically.
I'd be very surprised if GM's are myopic enough to differ their valuation of players considerably up/down after a few weeks of great/poor play. Also, it would be quite ridiculous for Burke to make an otherwise unavailable Gardiner available purely on the premise that he might have a bad start to the year.

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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
- He's likely not going to know what other teams are offering. So to remain static until another team ups their offer is the wrong strategy. He's still dealing in the dark.
This is true to an extent, but if Gillis is auctioning off Luongo it would make sense for him to be constantly trying to get better offers from other interested GM's until one reaches his asking price. If you don't except anyone to reach that price, then there's no point in going that high yourself. You just have to keep your offer competitive enough to stay in the auction, and read through any bluffs to the best of your ability.

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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
These things, among other factors, can cause the landscape to change to Burke's detriment. He's already climbing uphill IMO by having the greatest current need and known animosity with Gillis. Add in a few more things and any potential to this deal will be squandered. IMO, Burke waited too long... so let's see what happens now.
I don't think Burke waited too long. By all accounts they've been talking throughout the lockout, and could very well have made serious strides towards a deal, if John Shannon is to be believed. Hopefully we'll find out soon.

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11-27-2012, 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
Agreed. As I said, once the season comes into sight I think Burke will negotiate more feverishly.



Not if the asking price was Rielly, Gardiner, Bozak and Frattin. I mean really, how much higher can it go? Regardless of the new CBA, the price must come down from there if Gillis wants to move Luongo.


Maybe Gillis becomes insistent on Gardiner? The 5th overall is well and gone. The best pick now would perhaps be a mid 1st rounder so the price has already dropped by default. That said, if the CBA penalizes Gillis and favours Burke, I have to believe Gardiner gets stapled to the deal one way or the other. Where before Burke could have possibly gotten around his inclusion.



On urgency: The problem with Burke gaining urgency during the season is that other teams might also show urgency when their situations become clear. Extra competition is not good for Burke.



Quote:
Likewise it's possible Reimer plays well and Toronto doesn't need an upgrade afterall. It's unlikely, but possible. As you said, who knows? However I'd still be shocked if a team has serious enough goaltending woes out of the gate to offer up a package like the one Gillis was demanding.


Not exactly. Reimer and the team only have to look back at last year to a team that started well and ultimately collapsed... In a bizarre fashion. Do you think with that occurrence that Burke is going to chance it again? I doubt it. Burke described this drop as "bewildering". He's not taking another go at that strategy IMO, not with his job on the line.



Quote:
I'd be very surprised if GM's are myopic enough to differ their valuation of players considerably up/down after a few weeks of great/poor play. Also, it would be quite ridiculous for Burke to make an otherwise unavailable Gardiner available purely on the premise that he might have a bad start to the year.


Bad start alone? No. Bad start + job on the line + last year's collapse + VAN saddled with Lu's extra years = possible. Or at least Gillis would have every right to insist it at that point. Besides, if it gets closer to the deadline, what then? Perhaps at the mid point of the season, some GMs figure that's enough of a sample to base their decisions on.



Quote:
This is true to an extent, but if Gillis is auctioning off Luongo it would make sense for him to be constantly trying to get better offers from other interested GM's until one reaches his asking price. If you don't except anyone to reach that price, then there's no point in going that high yourself. You just have to keep your offer competitive enough to stay in the auction, and read through any bluffs to the best of your ability.



Disagree on the point in bold. Gillis can table a deal knowing full well his price won't be met, but also relaying still relaying his framework. That's what the Gardiner demand is IMO. The pieces are C,W,D+1st. It's perhaps the structure Gillis favours, but if you start lowballing on everything, then it is likely that the same structure cannot be kept intact while getting 50%-75%~ of the value you initially intended.



For Burke, at a certain point the bluffs and feints don't matter. He's not going to know if his offer is competitive. This is not a regular negotiation in an open market. Misinformation or the lack of information altogether will be a factor. For instance, I highly doubt Kevin Lowe is going to leak EDM secrets to Burke's benefit. It's every GM for themselves.



Quote:
I don't think Burke waited too long. By all accounts they've been talking throughout the lockout, and could very well have made serious strides towards a deal, if John Shannon is to be believed. Hopefully we'll find out soon.


I maintain that Burke has waited too long. Now certain factors will come into play that will make the landscape less easier to predict. The "tell" to me is VAN scouts constantly frequenting Marlies games. If a deal was done, are they this prevalent? Why would they continue to be if they weren't still evaluating TO talent... and if they're doing that, how can the pieces be agreed upon already?



Far too many questions still for anyone to conclude a deal is done.

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