HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > International Tournaments
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Has Russia overtaken the #1 spot in World Hockey?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-08-2012, 01:40 AM
  #476
RorschachWJK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kuusamo
Country: Finland
Posts: 3,392
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kessly Snipes View Post
Sure seems like Russia, Sweden, Finland the rest of the Euro hockey nations care. I would say only the general population of the USA doesn't care. They send their best Jrs, and that's what counts.

Again, hold the WHC at a time that doesnt conflict with the playoffs and you will see people start to care. But when you are going head to head with the most important hockey on the planet, you cannot win.
"the most important hockey on the planet" Hahah, maybe to some. Guess what, to a huge number of hockey fans, the NHL is just another national league. That includes myself. I care about NHL as much as I do about other local leagues - i.e. not very much. The national team games are what interests me.

RorschachWJK is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 01:41 AM
  #477
Descendent*
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 308
vCash: 500
It's smart how their Super Series team is pretty much the WJC team.

Descendent* is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 03:15 AM
  #478
Benny FTW
TurnSoonestToTheSea
 
Benny FTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Kingston
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,298
vCash: 50
Senior Canada >> Russia
Junior Canada > Russia

Benny FTW is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 03:26 AM
  #479
KEEROLE Vatanen
Failures Of Fenwick
 
KEEROLE Vatanen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 18,891
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruinsBtn View Post
Let's see what happens when Canada doesn't have a massive home ice advantage, and Russia does in 2 years

KEEROLE Vatanen is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 08:08 AM
  #480
daver
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Country: Norfolk Island
Posts: 3,708
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
Let's see what happens when Canada doesn't have a massive home ice advantage, and Russia does in 2 years
What's home ice got to do with anything? Ask Russia if it has helped them in the past (or any other nation for that matter).

daver is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 08:10 AM
  #481
pigpen65
Registered User
 
pigpen65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,175
vCash: 500
#1 has been Russia's for like 60 years now.

pigpen65 is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 08:18 AM
  #482
daver
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Country: Norfolk Island
Posts: 3,708
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RorschachWJK View Post
"the most important hockey on the planet" Hahah, maybe to some. Guess what, to a huge number of hockey fans, the NHL is just another national league. That includes myself. I care about NHL as much as I do about other local leagues - i.e. not very much. The national team games are what interests me.
Higher overall attendance + the best players in the world = the most important hockey on the planet

daver is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 08:19 AM
  #483
Hanji
Registered User
 
Hanji's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Country: United States
Posts: 899
vCash: 500
Russia has the #1 senior team.

http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/c...2-ranking.html


Last edited by Hanji: 12-08-2012 at 08:33 AM.
Hanji is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 09:01 AM
  #484
Jonimaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lund
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,563
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Senior Canada >> Russia
Junior Canada > Russia
With this logic, maybe Sweden is 1st?

Senior Canada > Sweden
Junior Canada < Sweden

Up until now at least.

Note: I'm not seriously saying Sweden > Canada, I just do not see how whatever country has the best juniors is relevant in the least. If they turn out great and dominate the senior scene too, then great.


Last edited by Jonimaus: 12-08-2012 at 10:01 AM.
Jonimaus is online now  
Old
12-08-2012, 09:54 AM
  #485
RorschachWJK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kuusamo
Country: Finland
Posts: 3,392
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by daver View Post
Higher overall attendance + the best players in the world = the most important hockey on the planet
Still doesn't matter. A national league is a national league. And the only one that has managed to screw up good parts of three seasons due to disputes within a short time period.

RorschachWJK is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 10:33 AM
  #486
FishManSam
Bobs Yummy Burgers!
 
FishManSam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: I Bet You Hate T.O
Country: Croatia
Posts: 5,135
vCash: 500
Nope

FishManSam is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 11:37 AM
  #487
Yakushev72
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,485
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALine View Post
There is a very reasonable excuse, actually. The KHL season is 52 games, starting Sept. 4 and running until Feb. 17. The playoffs run to mid to late April. The NHL season is an 82 game grind, starting with preseason in September and concluding in April. Playoffs running until mid June. WHC begins early May.

Players are humans. They need rest and recovery time from nagging injuries sustain throughout the season, they want to spend time with their families, as there isn't a lot of time for that during the season with all the travel. And yes, they want to have some fun and de-stress. This is true for players of both leagues.

For KHL players (majority being Russian) that don't make the playoffs, have over 2 months before the start of the WHC. Even the league champion players have a solid few weeks of rest before the commencement of the WHC.

For NHL players ( the majority being Canadian) that don't make the playoffs , have at most a couple of weeks before the tournament begins. First round exits have a matter of days to make it over to wherever in Europe it is being held. All after player a more grueling schedule in a more physical league.

This is why there is a very valid excuse for the low turnout for this tournement. It's not about lack of national pride. It's about lack of rest and recouperation. Something KHL players are able to get plenty of before the start of the WHC, and NHL players get very little before it starts.
Your premise appears to be that the NHL season is MUCH longer and MUCH more of a physical grind, and therefore offers a good excuse for all of the out of shape Canadian NHL'ers to skip the WHC. In fact, the NHL regular season is only 2 or 3 weeks longer than the KHL, and the KHL is no less of a grind. The KHL training camps start in early August, more than a month before NHL camps. The KHL doesn't have as many regular season games (at least not yet, and I hope never), but KHL practices are vastly different than NHL practices, both in training camp and especially during the regular season, based on vastly different philosophies toward practice. The Russian philosophy is to maintain a greater practice-to-game ratio, and the physical demands of Russian practices are typically brutal, as opposed to NHL regular season practices, which are typically just skatearounds to loosen up the muscles, with a tactical drill or two occasionally added .

In 1986, I watched Central Red Army practice in Bloomington, MN, the day before a game with the Minnesota North Stars (now the Dallas Stars). It was brutal. Tikhonov insisted that as soon as one drill ended, the next must start immediately, and everybody was required to practice at a breakneck pace. If someone was judged to have gone too slow, there was punishment for everyone. As grueling as the practice was, the players seemed accustomed to it, and managed it quite well, playing with a lot of energy the next night in beating the North Stars. It seemed like the game was moving in slow motion for the Army team, who were used to practicing at a much faster pace than the game.

Many North Stars players were watching in the stands, and after it was over, I approached Dino Ciccarelli and asked him what he thought. He laughed a little, looked at me with a straight face and said, "I'm not sure I could survive that." So don't worry about the KHL being overly relaxed and out of shape at the end of the season.


Last edited by Yakushev72: 12-08-2012 at 11:40 AM. Reason: omission
Yakushev72 is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 11:40 AM
  #488
Stats01
Registered User
 
Stats01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,374
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
Let's see what happens when Canada doesn't have a massive home ice advantage, and Russia does in 2 years
Guaranteed even with home ice Russia doesn't dominate like Canada did. I like how you just put everything aside and equate it to Canada having home ice advantage, whether we had home ice advantage or not that was a clinic. Complete and utter domination. All I gotta say to Russia is bring it. Can't wait for 2014


Also check out Canada at the WJHC from 2005-2009..yeah we sure enjoyed home ice all those years. Home ice advantage doesn't mean squat. It's nice to have but if your team really needs an extra boost then that says a ton about how mentally weak your team is.

Stats01 is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 11:44 AM
  #489
Shrimper
Trick or ruddy treat
 
Shrimper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Essex
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 71,237
vCash: 500
I'd say that Russia aren't first but they're definitely nearly on the same plateau as Canada.

Shrimper is online now  
Old
12-08-2012, 11:46 AM
  #490
Stats01
Registered User
 
Stats01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,374
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by daver View Post
What's home ice got to do with anything? Ask Russia if it has helped them in the past (or any other nation for that matter).
Especially the U.S. Didn't help them in 2002, didn't help them in Grand Forks, North Dakota and especially didn't help in Buffalo, NY

Stats01 is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 11:47 AM
  #491
Yakushev72
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,485
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stats01 View Post
Guaranteed even with home ice Russia doesn't dominate like Canada did. I like how you just put everything aside and equate it to Canada having home ice advantage, whether we had home ice advantage or not that was a clinic. Complete and utter domination. All I gotta say to Russia is bring it. Can't wait for 2014
Clinic, my a**. I give Canada its due for a great win on that day, but home ice was everything for Canada in Vancouver. They fed on the frenzy of the crowd with all of those Maple Leaf flags waving, but in Sochi, they will likely play with the same level of energy they exhibited in Torino, where they got shutout in a loss to the Russians. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Canada get shutout in Sochi.

Yakushev72 is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 11:49 AM
  #492
Stats01
Registered User
 
Stats01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,374
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
Clinic, my a**. I give Canada its due for a great win on that day, but home ice was everything for Canada in Vancouver. They fed on the frenzy of the crowd with all of those Maple Leaf flags waving, but in Sochi, they will likely play with the same level of energy they exhibited in Torino, where they got shutout in a loss to the Russians. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Canada get shutout in Sochi.
LOL are you serious. You still sound butt hurt. The two games I'll remember the most are the QF's and obviously the gold medal game. Complete domination. You were out of it by the first intermission. Don't make excuses about not having home ice advantage, your team didn't show up. Deal with it.

Stats01 is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 12:49 PM
  #493
worraps
Acceptance
 
worraps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,671
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanji View Post
Because that means anything.

worraps is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 12:54 PM
  #494
Jonimaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lund
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,563
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by worraps View Post
Because that means anything.
Hahahahaha oh my god, the IIHF ranking is worse than I thought, what a joke.
FIFA has a real competitor here for worst rankings ever.

Jonimaus is online now  
Old
12-08-2012, 12:58 PM
  #495
Yakushev72
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,485
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stats01 View Post
LOL are you serious. You still sound butt hurt. The two games I'll remember the most are the QF's and obviously the gold medal game. Complete domination. You were out of it by the first intermission. Don't make excuses about not having home ice advantage, your team didn't show up. Deal with it.
The fact is, and you know it, that the Canadian team in Vancouver probably wasn't as good as the Canadian team that took an a** reaming from Russia and everyone else at Torino. The difference: home ice. In fact, let's be realistic, the game against Russia was the only good game that Canada played in Vancouver (unless you want to count Germany). Canada should have been eliminated by Slovakia (sound familiar, if you paid attention the 2012 WHC), except for a lucky bounce and some real home cooking from the refs. They lost to the US in round robin, and only won in OT against the Americans on a lucky bounce in the Gold Medal game. Sometimes its better to be lucky than good, but lets face it, that was far from a dominant Canadian team. I expect the Canadian team from Torino to show up in Sochi.

Yakushev72 is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 01:05 PM
  #496
jekoh
Registered User
 
jekoh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,991
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by topched View Post
Popularity shouldn't dicate prestige. Regardless of a tournaments popularity, if a tournament is best on best than it should be considered prestigous.
The WJC is not best on best.

It's junior players, hardly any of which is even remotely good enough to make their country's actual World Championship team.

There's no reason to consider it "prestigious".

jekoh is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 01:19 PM
  #497
craigcaulks*
Registered Luser.
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: East Van!
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RorschachWJK View Post
"the most important hockey on the planet" Hahah, maybe to some. Guess what, to a huge number of hockey fans, the NHL is just another national league. That includes myself. I care about NHL as much as I do about other local leagues - i.e. not very much. The national team games are what interests me.
Being the most important league in the world doesn't mean everyone in the world believes it. There is no doubt however that the NHL is the most important. For most players it is what they aspire to. And its hardly "another national league". In fact, it's anything but.

craigcaulks* is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 01:21 PM
  #498
craigcaulks*
Registered Luser.
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: East Van!
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
Clinic, my a**. I give Canada its due for a great win on that day, but home ice was everything for Canada in Vancouver. They fed on the frenzy of the crowd with all of those Maple Leaf flags waving, but in Sochi, they will likely play with the same level of energy they exhibited in Torino, where they got shutout in a loss to the Russians. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Canada get shutout in Sochi.
You are predicting an outcome for a game in which we do not even know the rosters yet?

craigcaulks* is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 01:22 PM
  #499
topched
Registered User
 
topched's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,872
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jekoh View Post
The WJC is not best on best.

It's junior players, hardly any of which is even remotely good enough to make their country's actual World Championship team.

There's no reason to consider it "prestigious".
How many times have I said it. Its the best JR players vs the best JR players. It is best on best for under 20 players. It evaluates the jr development system of each country only.

Its the highest international title for jr aged players.

topched is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 01:31 PM
  #500
jekoh
Registered User
 
jekoh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,991
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by topched View Post
How many times have I said it. Its the best JR players vs the best JR players. It is best on best for under 20 players. It evaluates the jr development system of each country only.

Its the highest international title for jr aged players.
It's best juniors on best juniors, therefore it's not best on best.

Also it does not really evaluate the jr development system of each country, but rather the sheer number of players that each country is able to choose from.

jekoh is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:26 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.