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Old
11-21-2012, 03:52 PM
  #1
mindfly
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Mike Babcock

What's your honest opinion about him?
Is he still the best in the business that most people claim (or used to claim atleast).
Is there a coach you would rather have?
How much longer can he remain a coach in Detroit seeing as he's been there since 05/06.?

I personally think players are fed up with him after such long time (and with basically the same roster) and some fresh air would do the team good.

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11-21-2012, 04:03 PM
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I think he's a great coach but the players are getting sick of him -- he's virtually admitted this. I think Renney will be the head coach in Detroit by the end of his contract.

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11-21-2012, 04:06 PM
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Wait... Where's the evidence that the players are getting sick of him?

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11-21-2012, 04:11 PM
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I don't think there is a better coach in the NHL than mike Babcock. Only way I agree with firing or letting him leave is if Z and Dats both hate him. Any situation where those two don't have a problem with him would see the bad apple's being shipped out. I literally mean the entire team if that scenario occurred. You can replace those players, and firing the best coach in the league over them seem's dumb. I think Babcock is doing the best he can with a roster that is no longer built for the playoffs. I don't agree with some of his lineup's, or his man crush on cleary but i can't blame the man for not being able to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Let me put it this way. I would almost never say the wings lost a game because they got out coached.

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11-21-2012, 04:23 PM
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I think the lockout will have been a good thing for him. He was getting tuned out—both by his players and his general manager. I think the extra time gone by will allow him more control over the lineup he ices (with guys like Bertuzzi and maybe some others gone), and the time off will allow the players to forget about any annoyance with his style.

He seems to really like Nyquist, Tatar, and Smith, so I could see him pushing for all 3 on the team when we have hockey next. It's weird—usually coaches are the conservative ones and GMs want to bring in the next big thing. It's the opposite in Detroit.


Last edited by Guru Meditation: 11-21-2012 at 04:29 PM.
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Old
11-21-2012, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
I don't think there is a better coach in the NHL than mike Babcock. Only way I agree with firing or letting him leave is if Z and Dats both hate him. Any situation where those two don't have a problem with him would see the bad apple's being shipped out. I literally mean the entire team if that scenario occurred. You can replace those players, and firing the best coach in the league over them seem's dumb. I think Babcock is doing the best he can with a roster that is no longer built for the playoffs. I don't agree with some of his lineup's, or his man crush on cleary but i can't blame the man for not being able to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Let me put it this way. I would almost never say the wings lost a game because they got out coached.
I'd agree with this.

But he may not be the best coach for Wings in a few years or so. The magic only works for a moment a' la Bowman or something like that?

I've said it before but Babcock himself said that after a while you've coached a team, players don't here you saying 'do this' or 'do that'. They just here you saying 'blaf blah blaa'.

But atm there's no one better available. Coaching change might be what this team/few players need to get that spark back. But the few aren't going anywhere from their respective teams soon, I think. And hopefully the kids will get this team going again or something else.

I'd like to keep Babcock as long as possible basically it's clear he's not getting the best out of this team and someone else probably would.

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Old
11-21-2012, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13 HockeyTown 40 View Post
Wait... Where's the evidence that the players are getting sick of him?
Maybe not 'sick of' but tuned out, yeah.

Quote:
Mike Babcock knew his message was growing stale after six successful seasons as the Red Wings' head coach. And even before his team was knocked out of the playoffs — in the second round by San Jose for a second consecutive year — he knew that had to be addressed this summer.

So with both his veteran assistant coaches moving on — Paul MacLean taking over as head coach of the Ottawa Senators and Brad McCrimmon heading to Russia to coach in the KHL — Babcock decided it was time for some voice lessons.

"Anytime you've been in one place for a long period of time, you become a bit like Charlie Brown's teacher," Babcock said, mimicking the "Wah wah woh wah wah" voice of the adults on the Peanuts cartoons. "You need change. You need new ideas."
From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2Ctxx5i2t

I don't think the assistant coaching changes had nearly the impact he thought it would. What new ideas? We saw the same old lines, same old powerplay for the most part.

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11-21-2012, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by icKx View Post
Maybe not 'sick of' but tuned out, yeah.


From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2Ctxx5i2t

I don't think the assistant coaching changes had nearly the impact he thought it would. What new ideas? We saw the same old lines, same old powerplay for the most part.
why do the new ideas have to be on the ice?

how do you know he wasn't talking about stuff that's more in the background?

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11-21-2012, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
i can't blame the man for not being able to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Let me put it this way. I would almost never say the wings lost a game because they got out coached.
I would say Babcock is a really good coach who has some flaws. Mostly his ego. He's really stubborn and worse than even Scotty Bowman was about using kids.

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11-21-2012, 07:13 PM
  #10
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Originally Posted by ricky0034 View Post
why do the new ideas have to be on the ice?

how do you know he wasn't talking about stuff that's more in the background?
Like what? The lunch menu?

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11-21-2012, 07:30 PM
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Well, technically the guy who ran the PP last year just got demoted to GR.

Secondly, Babcock looks like he's being 'tuned out' because of the lack of talent. Coaches are only as good as the talent they have. Hopefully if the NHL ever comes back Holland will actually improve the team for the first time since 2009 and everyone will be so surprised how much more better of a coach Babcock is.

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11-21-2012, 07:39 PM
  #12
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I think there is a very plausable argument that Babs has come to the end of the rainbow here, however, there's no clear successor either in our organisation or externally. I think that since we'll pretty much have the same horses next year (if there is a next year), he should be kept on, but after that, reassess. On the other hand, he could decide that he wants a new challenge and bolt for somewhere like Toronto, and he'd have great success there because his processes and programs are good, just old hat for the Red Wings.

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11-21-2012, 08:15 PM
  #13
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Babcock is the man - period. I have heard from more than 1 person that the minute Babcock "might" be fired from Detroit that Edmonton will be backing a Brinks truck up to his driveway.

The man is a winner through and through - give him enough talent, heart, and athletic ability and he will give you a good of a chance as anyone. Our shortcomings have come with Holland more than Babs.

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11-21-2012, 10:36 PM
  #14
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Babcock isn't getting tuned out, the roster is just getting old and worn out. When your team lacks overall speed and legitimate scoring depth it's hard to do anything. Can't magically transform Franzen into a hitter, or Abdelkader in a 20 goal scorer, or Emmerton into a strong #3 center. We just don't have depth to go with too many aged vets. Honestly, Holland is the one who needs to go before Babcock. His loyalty and stubbornness has hurt this team far more than anything Babcock is doing.

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11-21-2012, 10:46 PM
  #15
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Originally Posted by FissionFire View Post
Babcock isn't getting tuned out, the roster is just getting old and worn out. When your team lacks overall speed and legitimate scoring depth it's hard to do anything. Can't magically transform Franzen into a hitter, or Abdelkader in a 20 goal scorer, or Emmerton into a strong #3 center. We just don't have depth to go with too many aged vets. Honestly, Holland is the one who needs to go before Babcock. His loyalty and stubbornness has hurt this team far more than anything Babcock is doing.
I think Babcock himself said he's taking steps so that he doesn't get tuned out.
That said, we'll have a new captain and a new mix this year... perhaps enough so that Babcock can find a new voice

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11-21-2012, 11:15 PM
  #16
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I think the problem is Hollands roster. We know Babcock can play with a gritty line up and muck it up defensively to win games, and he can coach the skilled game. But the roster right now has a bunch of half ass guys.

Tootoo, Helm, Abdelkader are the only bottom 6ers really that could contribute to that style of play that Babcock could coach well with. Cleary in the top 6 when hes healthy fits the mold too.

The team needs identity, Babcock is coaching a skilled lineup because he has guys who dont play hard and hustle all the time but have some skill like Franzen. If you turn that bottom 6 into something with identity and have Datsyuk and Z each run a solid scoring line Babcock would make them winners but Holland wouldnt even let babcock keep Smith up this year and it cost the team a first rounder.

Kenny better start making some solid moves fast or I'll have him in the hot set, not Babcock

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Old
11-22-2012, 01:07 AM
  #17
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I honestly think Babcock and Holland are startnig to feud. I know some people would push Holland but unless Nill is okay with it, I see Babcock losing out.

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11-22-2012, 03:47 AM
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I think the addition of Renney will help the youth movement and bring in some new ideas that were lacking with inexperienced assistants last year. I also think that it puts some pressure on Babcock, break the "downward spiral" or we'll see Renney step in as the head coach like he did in Edmonton when Quinn got fired. I don't see that right now, but Babcock has three years left including this season and that's a long time for someone who's already been coaching the same team for 7 years. There's always an end.

That said, some(a lot) of responsibility falls on Kenny aswell. Babs didn't have the forward depth last year to work with, he barely had a checking line by the time Wings were eliminated. I don't blame the playoffs on Babcock. I think Kenny has adressed the forward situation pretty well. He's switched Hudler for a similarly good player but with size. He's gotten the team some needed sandpaper with Tootoo. He's getting some more top end skill injected from the farm, and he signed the best undrafted euro prospect. They're small improvements each on their own, but could make a big difference as a whole. However the D line has gotten significantly worse so Babs has to show he can make everyone buy in there, even the veteran forwards. It's not gonna be the same without a #1 do-it-all and log 25+ minutes player like he's had on every team he's coached since the lockout, so I wanna see how he copes with it.

So.. for now I see no issues and the grass isn't always greener. But he's been with Detroit for a long time and this is his last contract imo. Whether he stays the course remains to be seen. No guarantees for that in my books. I think Kenny will outstay him.

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11-22-2012, 04:10 AM
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This is a Jack Adams Winning season for Mike Babcock. Everybody is telling to us that we shouldn't be any good. Lidström retired, you're gonna start falling.

Being good again without a simple dip, and every credit goes to Babcock.

***

I don't understand these discussions about the roster. I think it fits better to Babcock's ideas since 2008. Defence isn't perfect and has huge holes, but I really like our offensive tools. Healthy Cleary, Nyquist+Brunner coming, all-saving-and-shooting-Sammy, and rip-breaker-Tootoo. Those are nothing but good changes compared to last season.

Colaiacovo and the defence could be some kind of disaster, but I expect a trade coming. "Bouwmeester" saves the day. ;D

Crap defence + Great offence = very entertaining team in both good and a bad way. High-scoring games.

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11-22-2012, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
This is a Jack Adams Winning season for Mike Babcock. Everybody is telling to us that we shouldn't be any good. Lidström retired, you're gonna start falling.

Being good again without a simple dip, and every credit goes to Babcock.

***

I don't understand these discussions about the roster. I think it fits better to Babcock's ideas since 2008. Defence isn't perfect and has huge holes, but I really like our offensive tools. Healthy Cleary, Nyquist+Brunner coming, all-saving-and-shooting-Sammy, and rip-breaker-Tootoo. Those are nothing but good changes compared to last season.

Colaiacovo and the defence could be some kind of disaster, but I expect a trade coming. "Bouwmeester" saves the day. ;D

Crap defence + Great offence = very entertaining team in both good and a bad way. High-scoring games.
I agree that the offense may have been upgraded, so long as the pieces Detroit has are used correctly, and Holland is going to have the guts to pull the trigger on tough roster decisions, like allowing Nyquist, Brunner, and possibly Tatar onto the roster, even if it means waiving / trading a player he has loyalty towards.

The defense isn't going to be an easy fix, though. Bouwmeester is a good player, but is he + Smith + Colaiacovo really going to make up for what Detroit lost in Lidstrom + Stuart? I'm not so sure.

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11-22-2012, 11:15 AM
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I think Smith+ for Bouwmeester would be a disaster. At some point you have to admit to yourself that you're doing a little bit of rebuilding. I think Holland and Nill admit that to themselves, which is why they're not flinging around prospects and picks willy-nilly like they used to.

Well, Quincey aside. What a bonehead move. But apparently they've turned down some decent players because one (or more) of Nyquist/Tatar/Smith/Ouellet has been the asking price.

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11-22-2012, 12:33 PM
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As mentioned, the lockout could actually be a pretty good thing for Babcock. The players were tuning him out, and he admitted it. Compared it to the teacher in the Charlie Brown cartoons.

In terms of the PP, we actually did see some new things, if my memory serves me correctly. They went with three guys up high, one in the middle and a net presence for awhile last season. It worked for a bit, but didn't seem to last.

I'd actually like to see them get away from the net presence a little more and maybe get that guy to drift into the slot. It's easier said than done, but some cross-crease stuff would be a huge improvement. Seems to be like the team was too reliant on just sending the puck back to the blue line, assuming Nick would get it through. Stopped working awhile back.

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11-22-2012, 02:00 PM
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1. What's your honest opinion about him?

2. Is he still the best in the business that most people claim (or used to claim at least). I don't think his skills have declined. I think he's still one of the top 5 coaches in the NHL.

3. Is there a coach you would rather have? Possibly Dan Bylsma, but even that is doubtful. Don't know whether Bylsma's style would work any better than Babcock's style with Detroit's current roster.

4. How much longer can he remain a coach in Detroit seeing as he's been there since 05/06.? No idea. That'll depend on the players and the roster, neither of which I have much insight into or control over.


Last edited by claudetheturtle: 11-23-2012 at 09:53 AM.
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11-22-2012, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
I think the addition of Renney will help the youth movement and bring in some new ideas that were lacking with inexperienced assistants last year. I also think that it puts some pressure on Babcock, break the "downward spiral" or we'll see Renney step in as the head coach like he did in Edmonton when Quinn got fired.
I think Renney will help, but he's not lasted long as a head coach in either NY or Edmonton. Also, Renney taking over from Quinn was a planned departure, Quinn was only going to do one year and turn it over to Renney after that.

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11-22-2012, 06:10 PM
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Babcock's contract ends 2015

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