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Phoenix LXVI: Get Your Kicks On Thread LXVI

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Old
11-30-2012, 08:59 PM
  #301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
You want ouch. Add it all up.

The Arena: $180M
The last 2 seasons: $50M
The AMF : $320M
--------------------------------

The CoG is going to spend $550M just to have a team, that they don't even own!

They could have bought any team in the NHL except Toronto, Montreal, or the Rangers for that money.
The City of Glendale sold bonds to raise the $180MM. You can add over $100 million for interest I'd guess, although the actual figure is out there if someone wants to find it.

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11-30-2012, 10:08 PM
  #302
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Out of staters would be a lot happier if they could just embrace our willingness to fund this experiment/experience of hockey in the desert and

FORGET ABOUT THE PRICE TAG!

As anyone who has actually attended a COG council meeting knows, we listen to this song before the cameras come on:





And we're not doing to spite out-of-staters, really, we're not...it just seems that way. Joyce's tweets admittedly did not help.

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11-30-2012, 10:30 PM
  #303
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Can't believe this got voted in before most of the council was replaced. As if the current council hasn't done enough damage.

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Old
11-30-2012, 10:38 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by yotesreign View Post
Out of staters would be a lot happier if they could just embrace our willingness to fund this experiment/experience of hockey in the desert and

FORGET ABOUT THE PRICE TAG!

As anyone who has actually attended a COG council meeting knows, we listen to this song before the cameras come on:

And we're not doing to spite out-of-staters, really, we're not...it just seems that way. Joyce's tweets admittedly did not help.
Obviously it's not being done out of spite.

But please try to grasp this...

YOU ARE BANKRUPTING A COMMUNITY SO YOU CAN GO WATCH HOCKEY!

It doesn't matter the location or what side of the border it's on, it's not relevent.

But please try to understand what you are doing to the citizens of Glendale. Don't try to dress it up as 'we are willing to pay the price' because you are not a we. Most of you don't even live in Glendale, so you're not going to suffer the consequences. Your community isn't paying a dime towards it, you not funding anything. What you are doing is asking a community that you don't live in, to fund your pastime, your hobby. If you can wrap your brain around the frivolity of it, you can understand why THE PRICE TAG MATTERS!

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Old
11-30-2012, 10:54 PM
  #305
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For $320 million the team damn well better be called the Glendale Coyotes!

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11-30-2012, 11:38 PM
  #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
sonu munshi‏@smunshi
No. of signatures needed is based on 10% of total votes cast in the last election, which comes to 6,956. But will confirm with the city

sonu munshi‏@smunshi
On an interesting side note, this elex had highest ever turnout in #Glendale. 71.35% voter-turnout. #Coyotes
My number is based upon actual counted votes in the final mayoral election.

If Sonu's correct the number of required signatures would be higher.

But here are the number from Maricopa County's Recorder.
http://recorder.maricopa.gov/electio...en5Static.aspx

MAYOR - CITY OF GLENDALE
100% (46 of 46) precincts reporting

(Vote for 1) EV VOTES / TOTAL VOTES / % VOTES

- CRUZ, MANUEL ''MANNY'' 18366 / 27438 / 46.55%
- WEIERS, JERRY* 21119 / 31509 / 53.45%

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11-30-2012, 11:54 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by awfulwaffle View Post
I'm not sure about ASU, I'm sure with the introduction of the light rail less people drive cars, but they have a good public transportation system down there with buses, but I couldn't tell you about the amount of cars students have. I went to NAU up in Flagstaff, I just know from personal experience driving from the west valley where the stadium is back to Tempe multiple times.

I'm sure the university could bus people to and from, but how much would that cost? Does Miami do that for students there?

I'd imagine the playing surface is a big issue if the Sun Devils were to play on a Saturday, and the next day the Cardinals would have to play on it. This is why the Cardinals should have gotten a stadium in downtown phoenix lol. If it was downtown Phoenix this would really not be much of an issue, much closer to Tempe than Glendale.
They had a site.... Bidwill family bought up all the property around it covertly..... then the FAA nixed it. Another site nearby was submitted late in the search after Glendale became the only bid left standing. But it required a major redesign that would have eliminated the roll out field, and the Bidwill's refused to give that feature up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yotesreign View Post
As for why it wound up there, a number of different sites within Maricopa County were considered; a site closer to central Phoenix (which iirc the FAA objected due as some portion would have been too high for their liking in a flight path for the main airport for the valley ) - sites in Mesa and iirc tribal lands in the east valley near Scottsdale were considered. I believe there was local opposition to the other sites and relatively no opposition to the Glendale site - plus I want to say I remember the Cards preferring the Glendale site over the other sites...
Wasn't the stadium's height as much as it was having a facility that could house 70,000+ people in direct line of flight with Phoenix Sky Harbor's runways. And building encroachment within the area of the airport was already getting bad.

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12-01-2012, 12:12 AM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Evil Doctor View Post
Obviously it's not being done out of spite.

But please try to grasp this...

YOU ARE BANKRUPTING A COMMUNITY SO YOU CAN GO WATCH HOCKEY!

It doesn't matter the location or what side of the border it's on, it's not relevent.

But please try to understand what you are doing to the citizens of Glendale. Don't try to dress it up as 'we are willing to pay the price' because you are not a we. Most of you don't even live in Glendale, so you're not going to suffer the consequences. Your community isn't paying a dime towards it, you not funding anything. What you are doing is asking a community that you don't live in, to fund your pastime, your hobby. If you can wrap your brain around the frivolity of it, you can understand why THE PRICE TAG MATTERS!
Try grasping this Doc....

If he visits Glendale and spends money there, then he is doing what he can to help drive Glendale's economy, that includes jobs for Glendale residents..... sales taxes for the city..... .etc.... etc.... even if he doesn't live there.

Sure it hasn't been like it should be.... and it isn't going to fix itself overnight either. But there are some of us who still believe it can be fixed.

And no I don't live in Glendale, but I work and do a lot of my business there.

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Old
12-01-2012, 12:15 AM
  #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post
My number is based upon actual counted votes in the final mayoral election.

If Sonu's correct the number of required signatures would be higher.

But here are the number from Maricopa County's Recorder.
http://recorder.maricopa.gov/electio...en5Static.aspx

MAYOR - CITY OF GLENDALE
100% (46 of 46) precincts reporting

(Vote for 1) EV VOTES / TOTAL VOTES / % VOTES

- CRUZ, MANUEL ''MANNY'' 18366 / 27438 / 46.55%
- WEIERS, JERRY* 21119 / 31509 / 53.45%
Legend, I think the discrepancy comes from those who may have only voted for the President and/or others but didn't cast a vote for mayor. Those people would be counted as having voted and thus increase the total numbers.

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Old
12-01-2012, 12:25 AM
  #310
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Originally Posted by AZflyingPuck View Post
Legend, I think the discrepancy comes from those who may have only voted for the President and/or others but didn't cast a vote for mayor. Those people would be counted as having voted and thus increase the total numbers.
The ballots cast in the mayoral election square up to the number that Joyce tweeted, which apparently is from the city clerk.

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Old
12-01-2012, 06:45 AM
  #311
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Originally Posted by awfulwaffle View Post
We get the least amount of money in the league at 2.5 million for local TV, compared to Toronto that gets 40 million.

We are at a bit of a disadvantage because of the previous lack of success, lack of ownership, and lack of caring in the valley by the media. With GJ coming in, I'm sure he can turn it around and increase the revenue we would get from television, especially if the Suns continue on the path that they are, continuing to be a mediocre team, and no real "star" to shine the light on like they did with Nash the most recent years of failure.

I am motivated by GJ if he does get the bid and can buy this team, and he will work to not only improve the Coyotes as a brand, but improve the situation with the City of Glendale. What does it matter to you anyways, do you live in Glendale? Do you live in Phoenix and have the opportunity to go watch a hockey game? If you don't, then what money the team loses or doesn't lose should be of no concern to you. Fact of the matter is, the team is going to stay in Glendale, whether you like it or not.
Nope.. don't live in the area but have visited Jobbing.com for a game. Beautiful arena but painful to see it half empty for an NHL game. The $30.00 tickets in the lower bowl ticket eased the pain. I'd imagine fans outside the area care about the team losing money as it hurts the league overall when teams can't produce decent revenue to turn (or come close to turning) a profit.

Frankly I hope GJ CAN turn the situation around as you've got a good team and they deserve to play in a full building game in and game out.

Does it not bother you that when asked directly... GJ still refused to divulge his investors? I hope the COG doesn't get screwed over by all of this... and I mean that sincerely.

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Old
12-01-2012, 06:59 AM
  #312
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Originally Posted by JMT21 View Post
Nope.. don't live in the area but have visited Jobbing.com for a game. Beautiful arena but painful to see it half empty for an NHL game. The $30.00 tickets in the lower bowl ticket eased the pain. I'd imagine fans outside the area care about the team losing money as it hurts the league overall when teams can't produce decent revenue to turn (or come close to turning) a profit.

Frankly I hope GJ CAN turn the situation around as you've got a good team and they deserve to play in a full building game in and game out.

Does it not bother you that when asked directly... GJ still refused to divulge his investors? I hope the COG doesn't get screwed over by all of this... and I mean that sincerely.
Exactly, just don't cry poor and the teams can play. Cry poor and we are in a lockout situation, very frustrating. The city stepped up and did the utmost to keep the team. The team now has their own subsidies just don't cry poor and come looking for more.

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12-01-2012, 07:00 AM
  #313
Evil Doctor
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Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post
Try grasping this Doc....

If he visits Glendale and spends money there, then he is doing what he can to help drive Glendale's economy, that includes jobs for Glendale residents..... sales taxes for the city..... .etc.... etc.... even if he doesn't live there.

Sure it hasn't been like it should be.... and it isn't going to fix itself overnight either. But there are some of us who still believe it can be fixed.

And no I don't live in Glendale, but I work and do a lot of my business there.
$320 million worth of business?

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Old
12-01-2012, 08:13 AM
  #314
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Why was my link removed about the Yotes having the worst fans based on the criteria of attendance change, merchandise sales, etc.? Those be the facts jack.

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12-01-2012, 09:07 AM
  #315
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Haven't posted here in a while.

Sounds like Glendale has made THEIR decision. Good on them!

Jones could not get 2,000 signatures last time so I doubt he will get 7,000 this time. I also expect the GWI to punt. So...
Hopefully Jamison will finally put this to rest and the Coyotes can go back to winning on the ice - and hopefully winning off the ice as well.

Let's “Make it 8” thru expansion after the CBA is signed.

Congrats to the Coyotes fans!

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Old
12-01-2012, 09:20 AM
  #316
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Very happy for the Yotes and their fans.. I really think hockey can work there with some sustained success and good ownership.. You guys remind me of the '95 Devils

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12-01-2012, 10:02 AM
  #317
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I question the council's ethics on this matter. Was it three or more of the members who voted on this will not be returing.

I'm not sure I would want a defeated council to be voting on such an important and costly matter.

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12-01-2012, 10:53 AM
  #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
Haven't posted here in a while.

Sounds like Glendale has made THEIR decision. Good on them!

Jones could not get 2,000 signatures last time so I doubt he will get 7,000 this time. I also expect the GWI to punt. So...
Hopefully Jamison will finally put this to rest and the Coyotes can go back to winning on the ice - and hopefully winning off the ice as well.

Let's “Make it 8” thru expansion after the CBA is signed.

Congrats to the Coyotes fans!
The old man isn't alone this time, he's got some back-up.

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12-01-2012, 11:07 AM
  #319
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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
Haven't posted here in a while.

Sounds like Glendale has made THEIR decision. Good on them!

Jones could not get 2,000 signatures last time so I doubt he will get 7,000 this time. I also expect the GWI to punt. So...
Hopefully Jamison will finally put this to rest and the Coyotes can go back to winning on the ice - and hopefully winning off the ice as well.

Let's “Make it 8” thru expansion after the CBA is signed.

Congrats to the Coyotes fans!
You may be right. I don't live in Glendale so I can't feel what's the population's take on this.

But I really doubt that, if people of Glendale were up to speed with the financial situation of their city and the huge sums of money, both already spent and future payments, that are gonna go to GJ and his secret investors, over the next 20 years, that they would choose to keep the team in Glendale. Maybe they would. Who knows? If they have a referendum on the matter I guess we all will.

Until then, I still believe members of a lame duck council went way over their heads with this whole thing. I only went to one Phoenix game and I highly doubt, based on what I saw, that people in Glendale care about their team that much i.e. going BK for it.

Good for the fans if this goes through. It will be fun while it'll last.

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Old
12-01-2012, 11:12 AM
  #320
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Very happy for the Yotes and their fans.. I really think hockey can work there with some sustained success and good ownership.. You guys remind me of the '95 Devils
Very true, if heavily subsidized hockey can work there, heck with the right subsidies it can work anywhere.

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12-01-2012, 11:15 AM
  #321
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Why was my link removed about the Yotes having the worst fans based on the criteria of attendance change, merchandise sales, etc.? Those be the facts jack.
I removed it Tommy, and normally Id PM you telling you why but in this case just so everyone knows, and because its hardly a Newsflash, everyones well aware of the fact that Phoenix ranks last in attendance, second last in pricing. Theres no need to continually point it out with bare-bone links to a Forbes ranking nor anything else for that matter, as all it does is open the door to fan base bashing. I do believe the Coyotes faithful have suffered enough of that here & elsewhere. If a story appears that details attendance woes which is objective with background & qualification, going into details; future projections etc then sure, lets discuss it. But that piece by Forbes was akin to simply posting a photograph of a half empty arena, short paragraph, nothing new nor salient, salt into the open wounds for our posters from Arizona.

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12-01-2012, 11:27 AM
  #322
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Try grasping this Doc....

If he visits Glendale and spends money there, then he is doing what he can to help drive Glendale's economy, that includes jobs for Glendale residents..... sales taxes for the city..... .etc.... etc.... even if he doesn't live there.

Sure it hasn't been like it should be.... and it isn't going to fix itself overnight either. But there are some of us who still believe it can be fixed.

And no I don't live in Glendale, but I work and do a lot of my business there.
That sure sounds nice but in realville the numbers associated with the Coyotes presence is but a pittance in relationship to the amount of money the COG has spent to buy and keep them in Glendale. Simply said, the numbers on a cost/reward basis are completely out of line. The city, if this deal goes through with a GJ purchase will end up destroying the city`s finances and the taxpayers who foot the bill. The Councilors who voted for this Municipal largesse will be rewarded with a failing community devoid of adequate city services and protection. The vote was a slap in the face to all of the good citizens of Glendale. Lets hope a referendum signature drive we be successful in overturning such complete fiduciary failure as exemplified by Tuesday nights Council vote.

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Old
12-01-2012, 11:29 AM
  #323
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
You want ouch. Add it all up.

The Arena: $180M
The last 2 seasons: $50M
The AMF : $320M
--------------------------------

The CoG is going to spend $550M just to have a team, that they don't even own!

They could have bought any team in the NHL except Toronto, Montreal, or the Rangers for that money.
Sure, but would they name their investors?

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12-01-2012, 11:55 AM
  #324
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Canadian preoccupation with Arizona politics is just baffling. Are Canadians this fixated on the dealings of the municipalities surrounding Dallas, San Diego, or other somewhat similar American cities? Me personally, I don't give a **** what goes on in Denver or the smaller local cities in the area like Fort Collins or Durango. I just will never give a crap.
there s the same interest in the seattle/markham city counsil

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Old
12-01-2012, 12:03 PM
  #325
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Sure, but would they name their investors?
Ya, very troubling is that. Even if the city was flush, beyond wealthy, the coffers overflowing, the Arena Management Fee's reasonable where they sit (which there not but lets suspend reality for a moment), how anyone could vote-up a $300M+ expenditure without even knowing who the recipients might be beyond Jamison is jaw dropping. Combined with Scruggs initimations & suggestions that its possible former city employee's could be beneficiaries through sub-leasing & or contracting, then stating for the record that she believes the amounts being approved are nothing short of direct-subsidies, you would think that either the GWI or someone else (and I mean beyond just this new Petition being started up by Ken Jones & Co) would challenge this agreement no?

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