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Phoenix LXVI: Get Your Kicks On Thread LXVI

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Old
11-28-2012, 02:20 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Tom ServoMST3K View Post
So is anyone here in on Jamiesons investment?

I should message the COG, pretending to be a secret investor, and say that Jamieson has scammed me and warn them to stop dealings with him. And I will be sueing him soon.


How would he refute that?

"My secret investors deny that claim"
Everything on this board is for entertainment purposes only but I would strongly encourage you to review local and federal statues regarding your civil and criminal liability for falsifying information in this manner.

Kind regards,
CF the killjoy

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Old
11-28-2012, 02:24 PM
  #127
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Is it common for a city to allow proponents of a measure to allow non-residents to hijack a city meeting with their views, force the hand of elected politicians of that city despite the objections of the very residents they represent, vote on a measure despite not knowing the most important detail (investors), meet behind closed doors with the beneficiary of a city measure leaving other council members and the public at large in the dark......

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Old
11-28-2012, 02:30 PM
  #128
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This is awesome. I'll admit, I want the Coyotes out of there. Whether they're in Quebec, Markham, Seattle, I don't care. It's obvious they don't belong in Glendale. But the pure spectacle of having a completely dysfunctional council approving this albatross of a lease agreement without even knowing who JIG's investors are, well this is just an early Christmas present to any non-Glendale resident even remotely interested in the business of hockey. So I was originally hoping the council would come to their senses and vote no, but now I'm glad we're going to have another few dozen threads on this mess.

Add in some intrigue in the coming weeks:
(1) final 2012 fiscal year report coming out in December
(2) more details of the audit findings coming soon
(3) strong implications that JIG has basically bought off someone on council or working for the city with a sweet management gig
(4) eventually the details of JIG's investors will have to come out

Fantastic entertainment. Makes me miss actual hockey games a bit less.

I will say on the possible referendum - pretty much every resident of Glendale is against the lease, except for the 4 idiots on council that approved the AMF. The guys who were against the sales tax increase, they'll support a referendum on the AMF, since the sales tax increase will have to be extended for sure if they're dumping money down a hole on the AMF.

Police / fire / EMS, they'll support a referendum on the AMF, now that they see the tax increase they strongly supported will end up in Jamison's bank account.

Incoming council and the future mayor, they'll support a referendum on the AMF, since the city is completely doomed if the AMF goes through.

City staff, they'll support a referendum for fear of being laid off.

The old guy at the library, he'll support a referendum since he supported the last one that didn't work.

Whoever organized the Knaack recall, they'll support a referendum too.

All it takes is a bit of organization and the 3,000 signatures should be easy to get. Then it's pretty much game over.
I think you have been around here long enough to know that it is never, ever that simple and game over is probably years down the line no matter what side of this you are routing for.

As an actual resident of Glendale, I HIGHLY doubt they'll get enough signatures for a referendum. We voted for the temporary tax increase quite handily so the support for it is there. We are a democracy, people can try to get them. It is much cooler for Mr. Jones to be out there but the traffic around the libraries is not as brisk as the summer time.

The many many people I've spoken with around town just want this done and over with. Dragging it out even more may have the opposite effect if the people wanting the referendum get too aggressive. Just saying.

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Old
11-28-2012, 02:32 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Is it common for a city to allow proponents of a measure to allow non-residents to hijack a city meeting with their views, force the hand of elected politicians of that city despite the objections of the very residents they represent, vote on a measure despite not knowing the most important detail (investors), meet behind closed doors with the beneficiary of a city measure leaving other council members and the public at large in the dark......
If anything, they're showing that they will go to Westgate to support the team. Support is support whether it's indirectly or directly. At the meeting, that was what people around me were whispering about. It does make sense. Not all STH are Glendale residents.

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11-28-2012, 02:35 PM
  #130
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What a show that was put on last night at the COG meeting. Here is a point form analyst of what I've noticed:

- Glendale 1 Billion in debt
- Glendale has a negative balance in the General Fund
- Skeete answers were vague at times
- Lay-offs of city employees
- Lay-offs at the Libraries
- Closure of recreations
- Kids in the poor districts have nothing to due since after school activities were already cut
- Kids would end up joining gangs and crime would increase
- Keeping the Coyotes will result in losses in and cuts in the first 5 years
- Projected growth and revenue with keeping the coyotes in the long time
- Coyotes have a proven track record of no profit since moved to Arizona and thus shoots those projections out of the water.
- If projections come up short then losses will increase and more cuts will be needed
- If you pass this vote a Referendum will happen
- Member of COG asks why are we voting on this when we don't have all the details. Presentaiton to show details will be on Dec 4, 2012
- Mayor states the member can table it but won't get far
- New Majority come into office Jan 15, 2013 and mayor would like for it to be deferred till then. Mayor corrected that Lease would be voided Jan 31, 2013 if not signed by GJ
- New Majority against the deal
- Skeete had recommended the COG not approve
- 3-4 glendale people speak not in favor
- 2 glendale people are in favor
- Rest of people are out of glendale and have no right in the matter
- Glendale resident came early to get a seat up close. He wasn't able too and had to sit in the back. He was pissed off because it was reserved for Out of town people. He felt like a black person being told to sit at the back of the bus
- Some guy going off on a Quack Quack rant
- Glendale resident calls out of towners freeloaders including Coyote Fans outside of Glendale
- Jamieson asked who his investors are. He said I will not tell you
- Jamiseon asked if rumors are true about him hiring city staff. He avoids by saying he doesn't understand the question and it was then repeated back. He says no
- Jamieson gives a feel good story but doesn't outline at all how he will generate revenue for the team
- Mayor says the people voted for the Tax to save Safety Services from being cut and told that the tax will not be used to fund the Coyotes. She states that she was lied too and so was the public. Some of it will be used for the Coyotes and Safety Services will be cut. (This could open up a legal can of worms due to misleading the public)
- Vote in favor 4-2. The poor District and the Mayor voted no.

Important points:

- Jamieson has till July 31, 2013 to get NHL approval and sign the agreement
- Petitions gathered within 30 days to force a Referendum
- Legal challenges from GWI
- Other Legal Challenges from the public
- Legal Challenges from the new Majority in COG when they come in Jan 15, 2012

As you can see a BIG CAN of worms were opened and exposed by Alvarez and the Mayor last night. This is far from over.

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11-28-2012, 02:38 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by NHLfan4life View Post
I think you have been around here long enough to know that it is never, ever that simple and game over is probably years down the line no matter what side of this you are routing for.

As an actual resident of Glendale, I HIGHLY doubt they'll get enough signatures for a referendum. We voted for the temporary tax increase quite handily so the support for it is there. We are a democracy, people can try to get them. It is much cooler for Mr. Jones to be out there but the traffic around the libraries is not as brisk as the summer time.

The many many people I've spoken with around town just want this done and over with. Dragging it out even more may have the opposite effect if the people wanting the referendum get too aggressive. Just saying.

As you can see the bolded area. The Mayor exposed it. She stated that the people voted for it for the fear of Police and Firemen Service Cuts. The public and COG was told there would be no cuts to it and that none of the money would go to the Coyotes. But now at the meeting it was the complete opposite. There will be cuts in those services and money will go to the Coyotes. This could cause a public backlash now.

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11-28-2012, 02:40 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by NHLfan4life View Post
If anything, they're showing that they will go to Westgate to support the team. Support is support whether it's indirectly or directly. At the meeting, that was what people around me were whispering about. It does make sense. Not all STH are Glendale residents.
I truly think your missing the big picture.

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11-28-2012, 02:40 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by NHLfan4life View Post
I think you have been around here long enough to know that it is never, ever that simple and game over is probably years down the line no matter what side of this you are routing for.

As an actual resident of Glendale, I HIGHLY doubt they'll get enough signatures for a referendum. We voted for the temporary tax increase quite handily so the support for it is there. We are a democracy, people can try to get them. It is much cooler for Mr. Jones to be out there but the traffic around the libraries is not as brisk as the summer time.

The many many people I've spoken with around town just want this done and over with. Dragging it out even more may have the opposite effect if the people wanting the referendum get too aggressive. Just saying.
Wow, so the average resident of Glendale is so ambivalent that they would prefer the city to cement away a $320 million commitment that it won't possibly be able to afford than to take 10 seconds to sign a piece of paper?

Look at the tax referendum. Yes, that was defeated quite easily (i.e. the sales tax increase stayed) but that allegedly had nothing to do with the Coyotes. Support for the higher tax rate absolutely does not equal support for a gigantic JIG hockey subsidy.

Take everyone who voted to keep the tax increase to keep the police and fire fighters employed and tell them that their beloved city is going to give most of that extra tax revenue to some unknown hockey team owner who may or may not be one of the Ice Edge clowns, and because of that they're going to lay off a bunch of fire fighters and police officers, not to mention librarians and civil servants. Do you think those people are now in favour of the city passing the AMF?

Seriously, supporters of the last referendum, supporters of incoming anti-AMF councillors, the new mayor and the organizers of the Knaack recall all have the ability and incentive to get reasonably organized in gathering signatures. This is virtually a no-brainer.

The final outcome of an election, if it gets that far, is largely irrelevant. A referendum will drag this out long enough for the new council to kill the deal.

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Old
11-28-2012, 02:41 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by NHLfan4life View Post
I think you have been around here long enough to know that it is never, ever that simple and game over is probably years down the line no matter what side of this you are routing for.

As an actual resident of Glendale, I HIGHLY doubt they'll get enough signatures for a referendum. We voted for the temporary tax increase quite handily so the support for it is there.
My understanding is it was voted on favorably as to minimize the staff reductions and cuts to services. It is also my understanding that the overwhelming support was on that premise. Not the contrary, as divulged last nite.

Add: Pfffft! We around here know what this tax hike was intended for anyway.


Last edited by Major4Boarding: 11-28-2012 at 02:45 PM. Reason: Add on
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11-28-2012, 02:41 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by wpgJetsfan View Post
What a show that was put on last night at the COG meeting. Here is a point form analyst of what I've noticed:

- Glendale 1 Billion in debt
- Glendale has a negative balance in the General Fund
- Skeete answers were vague at times
- Lay-offs of city employees
- Lay-offs at the Libraries
- Closure of recreations
- Kids in the poor districts have nothing to due since after school activities were already cut
- Kids would end up joining gangs and crime would increase
- Keeping the Coyotes will result in losses in and cuts in the first 5 years
- Projected growth and revenue with keeping the coyotes in the long time
- Coyotes have a proven track record of no profit since moved to Arizona and thus shoots those projections out of the water.
- If projections come up short then losses will increase and more cuts will be needed
- If you pass this vote a Referendum will happen
- Member of COG asks why are we voting on this when we don't have all the details. Presentaiton to show details will be on Dec 4, 2012
- Mayor states the member can table it but won't get far
- New Majority come into office Jan 15, 2013 and mayor would like for it to be deferred till then. Mayor corrected that Lease would be voided Jan 31, 2013 if not signed by GJ
- New Majority against the deal
- Skeete had recommended the COG not approve
- 3-4 glendale people speak not in favor
- 2 glendale people are in favor
- Rest of people are out of glendale and have no right in the matter
- Glendale resident came early to get a seat up close. He wasn't able too and had to sit in the back. He was pissed off because it was reserved for Out of town people. He felt like a black person being told to sit at the back of the bus
- Some guy going off on a Quack Quack rant
- Glendale resident calls out of towners freeloaders including Coyote Fans outside of Glendale
- Jamieson asked who his investors are. He said I will not tell you
- Jamiseon asked if rumors are true about him hiring city staff. He avoids by saying he doesn't understand the question and it was then repeated back. He says no
- Jamieson gives a feel good story but doesn't outline at all how he will generate revenue for the team
- Mayor says the people voted for the Tax to save Safety Services from being cut and told that the tax will not be used to fund the Coyotes. She states that she was lied too and so was the public. Some of it will be used for the Coyotes and Safety Services will be cut. (This could open up a legal can of worms due to misleading the public)
- Vote in favor 4-2. The poor District and the Mayor voted no.

Important points:

- Jamieson has till July 31, 2013 to get NHL approval and sign the agreement
- Petitions gathered within 30 days to force a Referendum
- Legal challenges from GWI
- Other Legal Challenges from the public
- Legal Challenges from the new Majority in COG when they come in Jan 15, 2012

As you can see a BIG CAN of worms were opened and exposed by Alvarez and the Mayor last night. This is far from over.
Looks like you got it. I seriously doubt anyone was mislead on the purpose of the tax increase. The information was out there for a long long time. The fact that the police and fire services were attached, increased the odds of it passing. It was very clearly spelled out what it was for on the ballot.

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11-28-2012, 02:42 PM
  #136
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Looks like you got it. I seriously doubt anyone was mislead on the purpose of the tax increase. The information was out there for a long long time. The fact that the police and fire services were attached, increased the odds of it passing. It was very clearly spelled out what it was for on the ballot.
What did it say on the ballot?

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11-28-2012, 02:47 PM
  #137
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Looks like you got it. I seriously doubt anyone was mislead on the purpose of the tax increase. The information was out there for a long long time. The fact that the police and fire services were attached, increased the odds of it passing. It was very clearly spelled out what it was for on the ballot.
So everyone that voted to keep the tax increase was fully aware that a ridiculously large portion of the increased revenue would go to the JIG and other mystery investors as a subsidy to keep a hockey team in the desert? Okay then.

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11-28-2012, 02:47 PM
  #138
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What did it say on the ballot?
Quote:
Proposition 457
Proposed Amendment to the Glendale City Charter by initiative petition:

Amends the Charter to provide that Council shall have the power to levy a transaction privilege tax (sales tax) provided that no such tax shall be levied at a rate in excess of the rates specified, unless such rate is first approved by a majority of the qualified electors.

• A “YES” vote shall have the effect of amending the Charter.

• A “NO” vote shall have the effect of not amending the Charter that currently provides that Council shall have the power to levy a transaction privilege tax (sales tax) subject to approval by a majority of the qualified electors.
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/b....html?page=all

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11-28-2012, 02:47 PM
  #139
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My understanding is it was voted on favorably as to minimize the staff reductions and cuts to services. It is also my understanding that the overwhelming support was on that premise. Not the contrary, as divulged last nite.
Yes sir. That is what I was saying. The tax increase had very good support. For a lot of different reasons probably but the emergency services and staff cuts were a big part of it. The tax increase is minimal and not even noticeable to most. there is something in it for everyone!

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11-28-2012, 02:47 PM
  #140
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I find it somewhat hard to believe that it was worded as clearly as "vote for this tax increase to save the hockey team with a 300,000,000 dollar subsidy"...I doubt it would have had much support then..

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11-28-2012, 02:50 PM
  #141
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle5750344/

"It isn't all about the Coyotes," Alvarez said. "It's about revenue for the people. "I know [four council members] will be off in January but what are we going to do after that, the ones who remain?"

The outgoing mayor remained opposed to the deal, saying, "if you have less than zero in your chequing account, do you go out and sign a long-term contract?"

Scruggs is the only one who gets it.

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11-28-2012, 02:54 PM
  #142
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle5750344/

"It isn't all about the Coyotes," Alvarez said. "It's about revenue for the people. "I know [four council members] will be off in January but what are we going to do after that, the ones who remain?"

The outgoing mayor remained opposed to the deal, saying, "if you have less than zero in your chequing account, do you go out and sign a long-term contract?"

Scruggs is the only one who gets it.


Wow it gets even better yet:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle4552393/

So the Tribe will hold 50%. If the COG do not drop the lawsuit and let them build the Casino then JIG has no money for the team.

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11-28-2012, 02:54 PM
  #143
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Yeah , I don't understand the language of the no. It says it will not ammend the charter, ok I get that, but then the description of the charter is that it won't change the fact that the tax increase is subject to the majority of the voters, which I thought what the ammendment was doing.....

I'm missing something

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11-28-2012, 02:57 PM
  #144
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I find it somewhat hard to believe that it was worded as clearly as "vote for this tax increase to save the hockey team with a 300,000,000 dollar subsidy"...I doubt it would have had much support then..
Because that's not what it does or says. There were a ton of articles and news stories on it. The information is out there. Even on the Glendale government website which is very neutral. It was a tough choice for some people that lived here. Everyone has their own reason and level of knowledge about what and who they're voting on.

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11-28-2012, 02:57 PM
  #145
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Wow it gets even better yet:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle4552393/

So the Tribe will hold 50%. If the COG do not drop the lawsuit and let them build the Casino then JIG has no money for the team.
That report is from September...

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11-28-2012, 02:59 PM
  #146
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Maybe a stupid question and maybe its been asked before but can a new council unilaterally overturn a vote of the preceding council without fear of a major civil suit (from Jamieson)? Mind you if Jamieson is relying on income from the unamed "investors", he probably doesn't have much personal cash in the deal, so a suit for damages against the CoG may be pretty narrow as far as cost recovery goes.

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11-28-2012, 02:59 PM
  #147
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That report is from September...
Your avatar is the best I've ever seen.

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11-28-2012, 03:03 PM
  #148
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That report is from September...
I haven't been fully following this in a long while. But I see no reports that call it out as incorrect. Therefore the report stands on its merit until media sources states otherwise..

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11-28-2012, 03:03 PM
  #149
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Because that's not what it does or says. There were a ton of articles and news stories on it. The information is out there. Even on the Glendale government website which is very neutral. It was a tough choice for some people that lived here. Everyone has their own reason and level of knowledge about what and who they're voting on.
Well when there are city officials who are saying that without the tax increase there is no way to pay the subsidy, how else could it be framed. It's disingenuous at best to say that voting for the tax increase will save police and fire jobs before the election and then say that the cuts will be made anyways and here's 300 million for the hockey team after the tax passes...

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11-28-2012, 03:05 PM
  #150
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Scruggs is the only one who gets it.
Yes, it's been clear for a while that Scruggs is the only one on the council that has even an elementary understanding of what she's doing. The other 5 are complete imbeciles. Alvarez and Clark are two of the dumbest people I have ever seen. It literally hurts to hear them speak. They're both belligerent too, which is always a fabulous complement to ineptitude.


Maybe after they rebrand the team and arena, they can update the city slogan as well. I suggest: "Stupid. And proud of it. Glendale."

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