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Phoenix LXVI: Get Your Kicks On Thread LXVI

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Old
11-28-2012, 06:46 PM
  #176
Mork
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I like the idea of the Tohonos buying the Coyotes and jobing to complement a casino(s)/hotel development in the same vicinity. One operation would help the other.

Does this kind of thing have any credibility?

If so, how might that tie-in to the anonymity of Jamison's secret investors?

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11-28-2012, 06:50 PM
  #177
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Hey maybe JIG investor is PK Peladeau and he will own and keep the Coyotes in Glendale until 2015 when Quebec will have a fully functional arena.

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11-28-2012, 06:56 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
Perhaps this is just paranoia, but Jamison's reply was not very encouraging. He is either a bit slow ("I don't understand the question"), or he is being evasive.
... Well Whileee, Ive now had the chance to spend more time pouring over the footage of last nights Council Meeting than Conspiracy Theorist's have in taking apart the Abraham Zapruder film frame x frame over the past 49yrs. My conclusions? That Chief Justice Earl Warrens performance in explaining the absurdities of his single bullet theory was actually more believable than Mr. Jamisons evasions in effectively pleading the 5th when asked direct questions by the Mayor of the City of Glendale... indeed, his performance was almost as amusing as watching Joe Pesci playing the role of twitchy sociopathic liar & sexual deviant David Ferry in JFK under a cheap toupee'. Like talking to some creature whose head is a sheet of SaranWrap with a Happy Face drawn on it in MagicMarker. Completely transparent.

What was the quexon?

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Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
I wonder how big a piece of the team GJ will own....
Single. Digit. Percentage. Less than 6%.
Mebbe a fift. One two tree for, da fift.


Last edited by Killion: 11-28-2012 at 07:02 PM.
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Old
11-28-2012, 07:36 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by powerstuck View Post
Hey maybe JIG investor is PK Peladeau and he will own and keep the Coyotes in Glendale until 2015 when Quebec will have a fully functional arena.
Still holding out hope, I see.

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11-28-2012, 08:29 PM
  #180
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Still holding out hope, I see.
Its over when WE SAY ITS OVER.

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11-28-2012, 08:31 PM
  #181
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This is such a strange situation. Much like the lockout, I expect this to be a case study in a college textbook some day.

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11-28-2012, 08:32 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by powerstuck View Post
Hey maybe JIG investor is PK Peladeau and he will own and keep the Coyotes in Glendale until 2015 when Quebec will have a fully functional arena.
A for creativity.

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11-28-2012, 08:53 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by wpgJetsfan View Post
Another Scenaro that struck me with the Mayor asking questions:

She asked if the Arena Management (Manager) and the hockey team would be the same entity which Skeete replied "No". He said they were seperate.

I'm starting to see a deja vu Moyes thing happening. What's there to stop both the Arena Management the hockey team entities to file Chapter 11 like Moyes did? After all there would be no impact to GJ because his personal assets would not be affected. Only the Corporation entities created would be impacted.

What I'm trying to say is that if he gets the team and they lose investors and moeny because of performance or the public support in general, what is stopping them from filing Chaper 11? The COG won't be able to collect their money back when those entities have no money to give.
Not only is by no means unique, I'll bet there isn't a single team in the league that combines the team and arena operations into a single corporate entity.

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11-28-2012, 09:20 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by powerstuck View Post
Hey maybe JIG investor is PK Peladeau and he will own and keep the Coyotes in Glendale until 2015 when Quebec will have a fully functional arena.
My crazy conspiracy theory is that PKP is puppeteering these mystery investors and will pull the rug out from under GJ the instant before the sale would actually go through. Or whenever would make the purchase price the cheapest for him.

A second theory of mine is maybe GJ hasn't named his investors because even he doesn't know who they really are

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11-28-2012, 09:22 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Major4Boarding View Post
In following the "Walks like a duck..." theory

2) - Why the sudden urge to retreat from their battle with the TO under the guise of "continuous costs" in continuing to do so?

Someone or something involving a Glendale "staff" member (current, past, or future) is in play here.

I'm beginning to believe council members (sans Alvarez) already heavily speculate who his investors are (the Fab 4 may already know for all we know) but the Scruggs camp wants him to divulge who they are and in doing so, ramp up opposition.

*Quack*
I have no idea if the Tohono O'Odham might be involved in JIG's group, but it's understandable to me that Glendale might finally back down on fighting the tribe and casino. The city [and state] have lost every critical court case, including the most recent 9th Circuit court of Appeals decision.

Unless there's new legislature in Congress altering the prior land swap agreement with the Tohono O'Odham nation Glendale's odds of blocking the tribal casino are almost non-existent now.

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11-28-2012, 09:29 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by mouser View Post
Not only is by no means unique, I'll bet there isn't a single team in the league that combines the team and arena operations into a single corporate entity.
Not sure if this is what you are looking for....

True North Sports and Entertainment Limited (TNSE) is a Winnipeg, Manitoba based company that owns and operates the MTS Centre in downtown Winnipeg and the Winnipeg Jets of the National Hockey League. The company also owns the Jets' minor league affiliate, the St. John's IceCaps of the American Hockey League (formerly the Manitoba Moose). Aside from hockey, TNSE is also active in bringing high-profile concerts and entertainment acts to Winnipeg.

They own it all and operate it all under one company.

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11-28-2012, 09:47 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Not sure if this is what you are looking for....

True North Sports and Entertainment Limited (TNSE) is a Winnipeg, Manitoba based company that owns and operates the MTS Centre in downtown Winnipeg and the Winnipeg Jets of the National Hockey League. The company also owns the Jets' minor league affiliate, the St. John's IceCaps of the American Hockey League (formerly the Manitoba Moose). Aside from hockey, TNSE is also active in bringing high-profile concerts and entertainment acts to Winnipeg.

They own it all and operate it all under one company.
Apparently NY Rangers own the arena and Management as well
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madison_Square_Garden

It's called Madison Square Garden Company

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11-28-2012, 10:02 PM
  #188
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Perhaps his investors have conflicts of interest at this moment and would prefer to remain anonymous until the deal has closed. Maybe the own partial shares of other interests that would directly conflict with this deal. I really have no idea. Just supposing.
City Attorney Tindall might have hinted at a reason Jamison isn't saying who his investors are - apparently some investors aren't "all in" on the deal yet. Toward the end of the debate Tuesday night, when Scruggs and the council were asking questions about the timing of the city signing the deal and the sale from the NHL, Tindall explained that some investors needed to have the city sign its part of the deal first because their involvement was contingent upon the deal with the city. Maybe it'll turn out Jamison has a shady investor or two that he doesn't want to disclose, but it might just be investors who don't want to be identified unless they're actually going to be in. And with the threat of petitions, lawsuits, and a new council still all in play, those investors still can't know how this will end, so I don't think we'll hear for a while who they are. What I can't believe is that there are four people anywhere in the world who would give someone $320 million dollars without knowing who his backers are - and what are the odds that those four people would all live in the same city and be elected to the same city council?!

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11-28-2012, 10:19 PM
  #189
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MLSE (soon to be Rogers and Bell) owns both the Buds and the ACC.

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11-28-2012, 10:52 PM
  #190
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Whats the chance to see both Scruggs and Alvarez as witnesses for any eventual law suite?. Obviously Glendale has something similar to Montreal with the politicians. They are not playing fair game. Any chance someone get arrested one day?

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11-28-2012, 10:59 PM
  #191
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Whats the chance to see both Scruggs and Alvarez as witnesses for any eventual law suite?. Obviously Glendale has something similar to Montreal with the politicians. They are not playing fair game. Any chance someone get arrested one day?
This is what I was thinking.

You could tell, because they have millions and millions of debt.

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11-28-2012, 11:07 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Not sure if this is what you are looking for....

True North Sports and Entertainment Limited (TNSE) is a Winnipeg, Manitoba based company that owns and operates the MTS Centre in downtown Winnipeg and the Winnipeg Jets of the National Hockey League. The company also owns the Jets' minor league affiliate, the St. John's IceCaps of the American Hockey League (formerly the Manitoba Moose). Aside from hockey, TNSE is also active in bringing high-profile concerts and entertainment acts to Winnipeg.

They own it all and operate it all under one company.
When I search for who has registered the Jets trademarks I find:

Winnipeg Jets Hockey Club Limited Partnership
260 Hargrave Street
Winnipeg
R3C 5S5
MANITOBA

The hockey team is owned by a sub-company controlled by TNSE. i.e. They're not the same entity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wpgJetsfan View Post
Apparently NY Rangers own the arena and Management as well
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madison_Square_Garden

It's called Madison Square Garden Company
It looks like the Rangers are owned by another sub-corporation entity called "MSG Eden Corporation".

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11-28-2012, 11:25 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by WildGopher View Post
City Attorney Tindall might have hinted at a reason Jamison isn't saying who his investors are - apparently some investors aren't "all in" on the deal yet. Toward the end of the debate Tuesday night, when Scruggs and the council were asking questions about the timing of the city signing the deal and the sale from the NHL, Tindall explained that some investors needed to have the city sign its part of the deal first because their involvement was contingent upon the deal with the city. Maybe it'll turn out Jamison has a shady investor or two that he doesn't want to disclose, but it might just be investors who don't want to be identified unless they're actually going to be in. And with the threat of petitions, lawsuits, and a new council still all in play, those investors still can't know how this will end, so I don't think we'll hear for a while who they are. What I can't believe is that there are four people anywhere in the world who would give someone $320 million dollars without knowing who his backers are - and what are the odds that those four people would all live in the same city and be elected to the same city council?!
Jamison's investor funds for purchasing the Coyotes is/was contingent upon securing the AMF/lease with the City of Glendale. Barring anything popping up to delay it.... that will become official in about 30-days.

Bettman spelled that out somewhat back in a press conference during the Nashville series when he stated the lease negotiations with Glendale and the franchise purchase agreement with the NHL would parallel each other.

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11-28-2012, 11:28 PM
  #194
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A few comments:

1) It would be unusual for an owner of an NHL team not to have several companies for various purposes -- certainly separate entities that (i) lease (typical in US where most arenas are built and owned by public entities) and manage the arena and (ii) own the hockey team. All NHL owners do this even the few that own their own arenas, which is not the ideal situation for various reason -- mainly because you usually have to pay for the arena then and pay property taxes.

2) Of course Jamison's investors are only 'in' if the subsidy is provided. They most likely have an agreement that is "subject to" the COG providing the $320 million subsidy and that there are no obstacles to receiving the funds. Jamison "has" the money if the subsidies are guaranteed; he does not have the money until then. This is the same as a person that puts an offer on a house or business "subject to" certain conditions -- it is conditional on the subsidy. The investors' financing of the purchase (if any) of the Coyotes from financial institutions is likely conditional on that also.

That is how I see this.

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11-28-2012, 11:52 PM
  #195
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Everything on this board is for entertainment purposes only but I would strongly encourage you to review local and federal statues regarding your civil and criminal liability for falsifying information in this manner.

Kind regards,
CF the killjoy
So how would they go about persecuting me? I'll just go to quebec, they will love me if it works, and shelter me.



:sarc asm:

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11-29-2012, 01:42 AM
  #196
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There's no way they could convince the Sun Devils to play some games there?
ASU has their own arena (Wells Fargo).

Their football stadium is about to be shutdown for a complete renovation within the next 2-3 years and they've already turned down an offer to play at UoP in Glendale.

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11-29-2012, 04:44 AM
  #197
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Originally Posted by WildGopher View Post
What I can't believe is that there are four people anywhere in the world who would give someone $320 million dollars without knowing who his backers are - and what are the odds that those four people would all live in the same city and be elected to the same city council?!
What I wonder is if there are any financial "incentives" offered to them?

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11-29-2012, 05:37 AM
  #198
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What I wonder is if there are any financial "incentives" offered to them?
They do seem rather defensive of this deal, which, even in the admittedly optimistic projections seems to have little positive returns for the city. Clark will balk at the projections without the team, while in the same breath, tout the projected numbers with the team as evidence. She'll twist numbers around saying "Jameson's deal is only 11M per year, and when you take into account the bonds cost 6M a year and maintenance costs are .5M a year, the 11M doesn't look like such a bad deal!" as if they wouldn't have to pay the bonds on top of his AMF... If she's questioned on it, she'll reply that he has the option to buy the thing and release them from both the AMF and the bonds! I personally also have an option to throw money down my garbage disposal...

When Skeete, the man who negotiated this deal and has had the most contact with Jameson, said he could not support it, Frate came out right away an, to me seemed to try to change his mind...


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11-29-2012, 06:16 AM
  #199
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They do seem rather defensive of this deal, which, even in the admittedly optimistic projections seems to have little positive returns for the city. Clark will balk at the projections without the team, while in the same breath, tout the projected numbers with the team as evidence. She'll twist numbers around saying "Jameson's deal is only 11M per year, and when you take into account the bonds cost 6M a year and maintenance costs are .5M a year, the 11M doesn't look like such a bad deal!" as if they wouldn't have to pay the bonds on top of his AMF... If she's questioned on it, she'll reply that he has the option to buy the thing and release them from both the AMF and the bonds! I personally also have an option to throw money down my garbage disposal...

When Skeete, the man who negotiated this deal and has had the most contact with Jameson, said he could not support it, Frate came out right away and seemed to try to change his mind!
The funny thing is this option gives all of any potential upside to Jameson. If this gamble of hundreds of millions of dollars by the city actually works out they don't get any of the benefit.

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11-29-2012, 07:29 AM
  #200
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http://www.kpho.com/story/20211492/c...-with-oponents

"I'm not overly happy with the decision made, but we'll take that decision and run with it the best we can," said Mayor-Elect Jerry Weiers. He will replace Scruggs next year. He says the council should not have voted on this issue until the new members were sworn in. "It is what it is, the council, the current council passed it. It's something I'm going to have to deal with," he said.

"Go down to City Hall tomorrow and get our information to start a referendum to get this thing to a public vote," Jones said.

The Goldwater Institute has been very vocal about not supporting a taxpayer-funded team. Lawyers with the conservative public policy group have threatened legal action before. CBS 5 News reached out to them today asking if they're going to challenge this current deal, they said, 'No comment."

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