HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > International Tournaments
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Roster Talk '13 — Russia

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-19-2012, 08:24 AM
  #276
cska78
Registered User
 
cska78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: USA
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 11,583
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to cska78 Send a message via Yahoo to cska78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atas2000 View Post
He can't be told that. Stop the conspiracy theories. You don't like Vasilevsky. But the coach does. The tournament will show who was right. But right now I'd say the coach sees and knows more than you. After all Zadorov is good on small rinks. I don't know if he would translate that well on the bigger ice.
he can't be told that? really?

what about Ivanyuzhenkov? have u seen the roster for the U16? oh wait, there's Ivanyuzhenkov's younger brother there. What about Sabinin, Vorshin being on all the junior teams and look at them in the MHL now? Are you still going to tell me conspiracy theories don't exist? Have you seen Vasilevskiy play for NT's at all? he's always the worst guy on D.

cska78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 08:51 AM
  #277
kp61c
Registered User
 
kp61c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Moscow
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 1,518
vCash: 50
dont forget Viktor Ishayevs grandson Igor... its not the conspiracy theories its russia

kp61c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 09:12 AM
  #278
Atas2000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 5,617
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cska78 View Post
he can't be told that? really?

what about Ivanyuzhenkov? have u seen the roster for the U16? oh wait, there's Ivanyuzhenkov's younger brother there. What about Sabinin, Vorshin being on all the junior teams and look at them in the MHL now? Are you still going to tell me conspiracy theories don't exist? Have you seen Vasilevskiy play for NT's at all? he's always the worst guy on D.
None of the names is on the roster we are talking about. So what are you talking about? So typical...

Atas2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 09:14 AM
  #279
Atas2000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 5,617
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kp61c View Post
dont forget Viktor Ishayevs grandson Igor... its not the conspiracy theories its russia
Try to find his name on the roster... You don't know s... about Russia, you just live your own stereotypes and seem to enjoy it.

Atas2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 09:28 AM
  #280
kp61c
Registered User
 
kp61c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Moscow
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 1,518
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atas2000 View Post
Try to find his name on the roster... You don't know s... about Russia, you just live your own stereotypes and seem to enjoy it.
he was always in the extended roster http://www.sports.ru/hockey/135670843.html
and what about ivanuzhenkovs (the former member of criminal group, nickname ratan, look up who he is now) son who actually made the roster. stop talking about what you have no f... idea


Last edited by kp61c: 12-19-2012 at 09:33 AM.
kp61c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 09:42 AM
  #281
sbrug
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 291
vCash: 500
I know he's 17 and it's a 19 year old tournament but Russia must have some pretty good defencemen to cut Zadorov. To the person who said that Zlobin and Zadorov are ruined by the CHL, I ask how?

sbrug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 09:50 AM
  #282
Bure
Registered User
 
Bure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 3,736
vCash: 500
Wow Zadarov>>>>>>>AL.V

Bure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 09:59 AM
  #283
vorky
@vorkywh24
 
vorky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,641
vCash: 500
IMO Zadorov would be on the roster if stayed in Russia. CHL ruined him.

vorky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 10:12 AM
  #284
c9gunner
Registered User
 
c9gunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Calgary
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 417
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
CHL ruined him.
I wonder in what particular way? Anyway he is a much better player than Al. Vasilevski who hasn't been ruined by CHL :-)

c9gunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 10:19 AM
  #285
Sartorial
#RegisteredUser
 
Sartorial's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Saskatoon
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,127
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
IMO Zadorov would be on the roster if stayed in Russia. CHL ruined him.
By this do you mean his game has gotten worse as a result of going to the CHL, or he's being "punished" for going to the CHL?

Sartorial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 10:19 AM
  #286
SH15
Registered User
 
SH15's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 629
vCash: 500
You guys know much more about the Russian players than I do, but I can tell you as someone cheering for the other team, I will be MUCH happier to see Vasilevski on defence than Zadorov. From the small sample that I have seen, Vasilevski always seems much much worse than the other players on the ice.

Zadorov will be welcomed back in London to be certain as they have also lost Harrington (CAN) & Maatta (FIN) to this tournament. 3 of 6 defencemen! As someone else said, Zadorov will help them pursue the win streak record. (London currently has won 21 straight, record is 25)

SH15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 10:19 AM
  #287
Yakushev72
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,423
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantomas View Post
This is what I've been saying all along. Guys get punished for being CHLers. Bragin was the only one that didn't do it. Maybe the one decent man in charge of the junior program in years.

I miss him.
I don't see Varnakov or anyone else in the RHF punishing players at the expense of losing the Gold Medal at home. I would have loved to have seen Zadorov there, and am somewhat surprised that he's not, but he is also only 17. He'll be there next year. Very few people picked Yakimov to be a member of the team in advance, and Zlobin lacks the explosive qualities that the coaches seem to be focusing on. You have to cut someone. I don't have a problem with favoring KHL/VHL/MHL players over those who head off to NA when all other things are equal, and I think that is true in this case, with the possible exception of Zadorov. Bottom line: I think the coaches want to win the Gold.

Yakushev72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 10:32 AM
  #288
SoundAndFury
Registered User
 
SoundAndFury's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,827
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
IMO Zadorov would be on the roster if stayed in Russia. CHL ruined him.
Why would you keep insisting CHL ruins everybody? Did CHL ruin Yakupov too? Obviously there are many examples when CHL was not the right path to go for Russian players but IMO both Zlobin and Zadorov benefited from going to NA.

And how can CHL ruin a player in 4 months? That's ridiculous.

SoundAndFury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 10:38 AM
  #289
MOGiLNY
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Toronto
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 2,624
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to MOGiLNY
I think the word "ruined" was misused by the original poster. He didn't mean that Zadorov's skills have diminished since coming over, but meant that by going overseas, Zadorov ruined his chances at making the team.

That said, it seems like every year there's a similar story about one or two players. I don't think a 17 year old Zadorov would be a huge difference maker anyway as he probably wouldn't have gotten much ice time.

MOGiLNY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 10:49 AM
  #290
Acallabeth
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 8,158
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to Acallabeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOGiLNY View Post
I think the word "ruined" was misused by the original poster. He didn't mean that Zadorov's skills have diminished since coming over, but meant that by going overseas, Zadorov ruined his chances at making the team.

That said, it seems like every year there's a similar story about one or two players. I don't think a 17 year old Zadorov would be a huge difference maker anyway as he probably wouldn't have gotten much ice time.
Haha no, Vorky meant exactly that.

Agree on the second part 100%. Players who have KHL experience are whom I expect being leaders of.

Acallabeth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 10:58 AM
  #291
vorky
@vorkywh24
 
vorky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,641
vCash: 500
Guys, Zadorov is playing junior hockey in Canada. He will play junior hockey next 2-3 seasons if he stay in Canada. I am 100% sure he would play VHL senior hockey this season if stayed,and KHL next season. Look at Mironov, born 1994, in Dynamo Moscow. IMO 15-20 min TOI is appropriate for 1994 born guy.

KHL, VHL >>>> CHL

Btw, have you read story of Prokhorkin?

vorky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 11:01 AM
  #292
Fulcrum
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 2,605
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Guys, Zadorov is playing junior hockey in Canada. He will play junior hockey next 2-3 seasons if he stay in Canada. I am 100% sure he would play VHL senior hockey this season if stayed,and KHL next season. Look at Mironov, born 1994, in Dynamo Moscow. IMO 15-20 min TOI is appropriate for 1994 born guy.

KHL, VHL >>>> CHL

Btw, have you read story of Prokhorkin?
Ye but to say that he is ruined is extreme. He could be on a better path in the KHL system, that would suite him better, I agree. Maybe he'll crack NHL line-up like Kulikov when drafted.

I'm more worried about CHL turning him into a physical D rather than a puck moving, shooting D like Nikulin and so on.

Fulcrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 11:02 AM
  #293
SH15
Registered User
 
SH15's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 629
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Guys, Zadorov is playing junior hockey in Canada. He will play junior hockey next 2-3 seasons if he stay in Canada. I am 100% sure he would play VHL senior hockey this season if stayed,and KHL next season. Look at Mironov, born 1994, in Dynamo Moscow. IMO 15-20 min TOI is appropriate for 1994 born guy.

KHL, VHL >>>> CHL

Btw, have you read story of Prokhorkin?
Not if your goal is NHL

SH15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 11:04 AM
  #294
Fulcrum
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 2,605
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SH15 View Post
Not if your goal is NHL
How many Russians are solid roster players from CHL right now, like 3 or 4?

Stats say otherwise, but really - depends on the player.

Fulcrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 11:14 AM
  #295
vorky
@vorkywh24
 
vorky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,641
vCash: 500
Was Dina Orlovīs path bad? He left to NA when he was 19/20. If no lockout, he is locked in Caps roster.

Voynov has been playing 5th AHL season. I am not sure if he would be locked in LA, if no lockout.

Pedan, Sergeyev, why still playing junior hockey?

Only reason why kids moving to NA when are 16-17 if because of russian factor. I would say nothing if CHL route was MUCH MUCH better for them than KHL-VHL-MHL route. But it is not.

I hope federal courte banned NHL draft

vorky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 11:16 AM
  #296
SH15
Registered User
 
SH15's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 629
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
How many Russians are solid roster players from CHL right now, like 3 or 4?

Stats say otherwise, but really - depends on the player.
Of course it is hard to paint all with one brush, but Russians come to the CHL in hopes of a better path to the NHL. I'm sure they'd rather stay home if all things were even!

Rink size, game schedule, exposure and perhaps most important - showing the willingness to leave home are surely the thought process for a Russian leaving home to play Junior hockey in Canada. VHL/KHL are great levels of hockey but are not a better path to the NHL for a 17 year old player.

SH15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 11:22 AM
  #297
vorky
@vorkywh24
 
vorky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,641
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SH15 View Post
Of course it is hard to paint all with one brush, but Russians come to the CHL in hopes of a better path to the NHL. I'm sure they'd rather stay home if all things were even!

Rink size, game schedule, exposure and perhaps most important - showing the willingness to leave home are surely the thought process for a Russian leaving home to play Junior hockey in Canada. VHL/KHL are great levels of hockey but are not a better path to the NHL for a 17 year old player.
you are ignoring facts

vorky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 11:34 AM
  #298
Acallabeth
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 8,158
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to Acallabeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by SH15 View Post
Not if your goal is NHL
This is a prejudice.
Among 24 Russians who played a game in the NHL last year, only 5 have CHL experience: Grachev (non-factor), Loktionov (talented, but LAK has no room for him), Burmistrov (talented, but is yet to reach his potential), Kulikov (excellent defenzeman) and Radulov (ha!). All top Russian players (AO, Malkin etc.) had "professional" experience before coming to the NHL. And there are hundreds of Russians who are lost in the CHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Was Dina Orlovīs path bad? He left to NA when he was 19/20. If no lockout, he is locked in Caps roster.
Voynov has been playing 5th AHL season. I am not sure if he would be locked in LA, if no lockout.
Orlov had all the options to develop in Metallurg: 1st pairing, PP time - not an often case.
LA has been mega-loaded with defensemen last years, and Voynov only progressed enough to make the NHL last year (however, I'm disappointed he couldn't play in the K this year).

Actually AHL is a much better way to the NHL than CHL: at least it's playing against men (Kitsyn said after playing for Missisauga that he was disappointed by level of the competition in the OHL), and much better adjustment for the NHL style. Look at Anisimov, Nikitin, Voynov, Orlov etc. - they used their time in the AHL well.

Quote:
Of course it is hard to paint all with one brush, but Russians come to the CHL in hopes of a better path to the NHL. I'm sure they'd rather stay home if all things were even!
Read Prokhorkin's words.

I'm actually for Russians playing in the CHL if it helps them to progress, but it's a very risky decision, KHL is often a better option.

Acallabeth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 11:45 AM
  #299
bruinsfan46
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: London, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,457
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by StrappingYoungChad View Post
By this do you mean his game has gotten worse as a result of going to the CHL, or he's being "punished" for going to the CHL?
He truly believes that in a few months in the OHL Zadorov has been ruined despite the fact he's playing substantially better than he was in September. There are certain posters on this site who truly, truly believe all the CHL does is ruin their country's prospects. I remember reading about how Khokhlachev was ruined, he's their number one centre! You just have to let it go, there is no rationalizing.

Zadorov is a 17 year old defenseman and it is still a 19 year old tournament, the OHL has not caused him to go backwards hockey wise.

bruinsfan46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 11:51 AM
  #300
vorky
@vorkywh24
 
vorky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,641
vCash: 500
Acallabeth
Yes, Dima was the best D in Kuznya. It can not be said about CSKA and Zadorov (this season). On the other hand, he is only 17y old. It is not so easy to crack KHL roster at such age. The same NHL. He would progress nice in VHL, I am sure. Still better than junior hockey in Canada. And maybe,next season, he would join CSKA main team. Do you know that KHL entry contract is for 3 years, so until a guy is 20y. He would not miss NHL if he stayed. Look at Kuznetsov (could move) or Tarasenko. It is not problem to terminate contract earlier in KHL (Kucherov), so he could play this season in VHL. If not satisfied, next season moved to NA. Btw, can he play AHL next season? IIRC, there is a rule, CHLer can not play AHL until 20y (Koko case this season). If he played senior/pro hockey in Russia, he would move DIRECTLY to AHL (Prokhorkin case if no KHL-NHL legal case). So, I can imagine Zadorov (and Tolchintsky etc) will have to face "Koko case". They could overgrow CHL, but not good enough for NHL and can not play AHL (due to rules). Are they aware this? It this the best option? I dont think so.

vorky is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:01 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. Đ2016 All Rights Reserved.