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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Roster Talk '13 — Russia

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Old
12-26-2012, 12:35 PM
  #501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
Agreed, management is very favorable to Canada. If you look back at the past 15 years or so, it seems that the tournament is hosted in Canada or Canada South (a city in the US that is practically within walking distance of the Canadian border) just about every other year. Crowd support is a huge factor in motivating players and referees (I'm not saying that necessarily translates into a win), plus just the factor of being at home. Canada unfairly benefits from its ability to generate revenue and perks for the IIHF by being given more opportunities to host. The fact is that Russia is hosting this year, and Sweden next, so its hard to accept the premise that there are no other bidders except Canada and Canada South.
If you want the tournament more often, feel free to :

i) Pay what Canadians pay for tickets;
ii) Sell out every game.

We welcome your support.

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12-26-2012, 12:37 PM
  #502
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Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
Great then lets start hosting the tourney places like Korea, Australia or Dubai if we are interested in "promoting" the game.

Absolutely BS reason.
its unfair to call this event WJC when canada hosts every second tournament and has an advantage over the other teams. i think Canada Junior Cup would be a great name

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12-26-2012, 12:42 PM
  #503
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Originally Posted by kp61c View Post
its unfair to call this event WJC when canada hosts every second tournament and has an advantage over the other teams. i think the name Canada Junior Cup would be a great name
Call it whatever you like, and...

If you dislike the scheduling or feel contempt for the influence Canada has, feel free not to send a team. Canadians will continue to support the tournament, other countries will get more Canadian dollars and we can see who blinks first. I bet you come crawling back before we do.

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12-26-2012, 12:43 PM
  #504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kp61c View Post
its unfair to call this event WJC when canada hosts every second tournament and has an advantage over the other teams. i think Canada Junior Cup would be a great name
To be fair, rarely does anybody but Canada care to host the WJC.

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12-26-2012, 12:52 PM
  #505
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Originally Posted by kp61c View Post
its unfair to call this event WJC when canada hosts every second tournament and has an advantage over the other teams. i think Canada Junior Cup would be a great name
Cool lets call it the canada junior cup.

Just like canada has the first major world championship tourney the quebec peewee tourney.

Should we start complaining in Canada because we wont get to host the football world cup (and rightfully so)?

Fact is very few europeans give a **** about hockey compared to canada. Heck maybe even part of the US.

I went to CSKA game last year and you get more fans to a WHL game in the US.

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12-26-2012, 12:53 PM
  #506
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Originally Posted by Dynamo81 View Post
Russia matches will do well.
I was really hoping so. But.... Russia-Slovakia. Attendance: 6,221. (Arena's capacity is 8,250)

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12-26-2012, 01:01 PM
  #507
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Originally Posted by c9gunner View Post
I was really hoping so. But.... Russia-Slovakia. Attendance: 6,221. (Arena's capacity is 8,250)
Not to mention there probably isnt a whole lot else going on in Ufa competing for those entertainment roubles.

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12-26-2012, 01:03 PM
  #508
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Unfortunately the hockey buzz has died down a bit in Ufa since about 2009. Would be cool to see this tournament in St Petersburg, the town is going hockey mad now selling out their home games. But it's hard to predict where the buzz will be.

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12-26-2012, 01:04 PM
  #509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
Cool lets call it the canada junior cup.

Just like canada has the first major world championship tourney the quebec peewee tourney.

Should we start complaining in Canada because we wont get to host the football world cup (and rightfully so)?

Fact is very few europeans give a **** about hockey compared to canada. Heck maybe even part of the US.

I went to CSKA game last year and you get more fans to a WHL game in the US.
There's 3 teams in Moscow, 4 if you count Atlant.

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12-26-2012, 01:28 PM
  #510
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Originally Posted by SimplySensational View Post
There's 3 teams in Moscow, 4 if you count Atlant.
Sure and a population of 12 million plus excellent seats cost 500 roubles or $16.

A good portion of the fans at the game i attended were Omsk supporters flown in.

Its just not nearly as popular. For one of the most storied franchises in all of hockey.


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12-26-2012, 01:35 PM
  #511
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again, an unfair advantage is an unfair advantage wherever you twist it... this is the point. call it Canada Cup and you may host it ever year, but its only my opinion and sadly this scenario is unrealistic

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12-26-2012, 01:37 PM
  #512
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Originally Posted by kp61c View Post
again, an unfair advantage is an unfair advantage wherever you twist it... this is the point. call it Canada Cup and you may host it ever year, but its only my opinion and sadly this scenario is unrealistic
Fair enough. I apologize if I was too agressive with my responce.

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12-26-2012, 10:50 PM
  #513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
Call it whatever you like, and...

If you dislike the scheduling or feel contempt for the influence Canada has, feel free not to send a team. Canadians will continue to support the tournament, other countries will get more Canadian dollars and we can see who blinks first. I bet you come crawling back before we do.
Canada didn't send its team to the Olympics for a long time and now argues that all those gold medals that Soviet Union won were illegitimate because Canadians weren't present....ended up "blinking first"

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12-26-2012, 10:53 PM
  #514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
If you want the tournament more often, feel free to :

i) Pay what Canadians pay for tickets;
ii) Sell out every game.

We welcome your support.
if you are going to argue economics, then hosting the tournament in Canada is always going to make the most money for IIHF.

the idea of hosting the tournament in different locations though, is to promote the sport and encourage growth in countries other than Canada and holding it in Canada and consequently in North America for many, many years doesn't encourage much progress outside the local rinks.

nobody aside from Hockey Canada and IIHF as organizations has profited from this. look at how many competitive countries we get in these tournaments and how many countries have developed over the years.

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12-26-2012, 11:22 PM
  #515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOGiLNY View Post
if you are going to argue economics, then hosting the tournament in Canada is always going to make the most money for IIHF.

the idea of hosting the tournament in different locations though, is to promote the sport and encourage growth in countries other than Canada and holding it in Canada and consequently in North America for many, many years doesn't encourage much progress outside the local rinks.

nobody aside from Hockey Canada and IIHF as organizations has profited from this. look at how many competitive countries we get in these tournaments and how many countries have developed over the years.
So if "promoting" the sport is a priority we should hold it in places like Dubai, Korea and Australia.

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12-26-2012, 11:26 PM
  #516
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Originally Posted by MOGiLNY View Post
Canada didn't send its team to the Olympics for a long time and now argues that all those gold medals that Soviet Union won were illegitimate because Canadians weren't present....ended up "blinking first"
The argument is usually that Canada didnt send its best team. Which is true


The gold medals do count for USSR. There is no rule making it mandatory to beat the best to have your gold count.

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12-26-2012, 11:31 PM
  #517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
So if "promoting" the sport is a priority we should hold it in places like Dubai, Korea and Australia.
is promoting the sport not the reason for holding it in different locations?

why do NFL and NHL bring several games a year to Europe? because they couldn't get the fans back home?

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12-27-2012, 12:06 AM
  #518
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Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
Sure and a population of 12 million plus excellent seats cost 500 roubles or $16.

A good portion of the fans at the game i attended were Omsk supporters flown in.

Its just not nearly as popular. For one of the most storied franchises in all of hockey.
Yep although the popularity of Hockey in Russia is on the rise it is a distinct number two. In fact CSKA's hockey team in terms of attendances is not only behind the football team but also the Basketball side that averages around 7k in the Euroleague.

Moscow is an event city, people go for events, glamor etc, Even I don't go to all of Dynamo's matches people are far too spoiled for entertainment here to care about going to Hockey, I like going to sport but I go to more football matches than Hockey. Even then football (Soccer) is simply far more popular across Russia and in particular Moscow.

Last season attendances Russian Premier League in Moscow.
Spartak - 21k
Lokomotiv - 15k
CSKA -14k
Dynamo - 10k

The league average is 13k. The national team however packs out the Luzhniki most of the time (80k capacity or when a Russian team plays a European heavy weight in the UCL).

Moscow teams in the KHL have the poorest attendances in the league.

KHL teams in Hockey cities do very well. Omsk averages around 8k, Traktor sells out every game with averages of around 7.5k, Yaroslavl gets around 8k every game, Amur sells out every game (Around 7k), Neftekhimik sell out every game (5.5k arena), Salavat Ufa averages around 7k in a 8k arena and so on.

St.Petersburg is a unique case. SKA St.Petersburg averages 12k selling out the arena on most nights, the football team Zenit averages 19k selling out its stadium (They are building a beautiful 60k stadium right now which is nearing completion and they are expected to average ~45k per game). St.Petersburg loves sport but are also lucky to have one team in the top flight in football and Hockey therefore the entire city can get behind one team unlike in Moscow.

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12-27-2012, 12:10 AM
  #519
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I don't think attendance numbers in Russia reflect the interest in the sport.

Not sure about the KHL, but I feel that in soccer, the very low attendance is because of the atmosphere at the matches (swearing, hooligans etc) and people choose to watch the games from home.

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12-27-2012, 12:21 AM
  #520
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Originally Posted by MOGiLNY View Post
I don't think attendance numbers in Russia reflect the interest in the sport.

Not sure about the KHL, but I feel that in soccer, the very low attendance is because of the atmosphere at the matches (swearing, hooligans etc) and people choose to watch the games from home.
13k is a good average especially when you can not control the population sizes of teams being promoted/relegated, it is not like you can manufacture a club in a big market and put them in the top flight. Although the league is probably the sixth or seventh best in Europe it is not the best league and 13k is a good attendance across the league especially with three of the four Moscow Clubs getting good attendances.

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12-27-2012, 01:02 AM
  #521
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Originally Posted by Dynamo81 View Post
Yep although the popularity of Hockey in Russia is on the rise it is a distinct number two. In fact CSKA's hockey team in terms of attendances is not only behind the football team but also the Basketball side that averages around 7k in the Euroleague.

Moscow is an event city, people go for events, glamor etc, Even I don't go to all of Dynamo's matches people are far too spoiled for entertainment here to care about going to Hockey, I like going to sport but I go to more football matches than Hockey. Even then football (Soccer) is simply far more popular across Russia and in particular Moscow.

Last season attendances Russian Premier League in Moscow.
Spartak - 21k
Lokomotiv - 15k
CSKA -14k
Dynamo - 10k

The league average is 13k. The national team however packs out the Luzhniki most of the time (80k capacity or when a Russian team plays a European heavy weight in the UCL).

Moscow teams in the KHL have the poorest attendances in the league.

KHL teams in Hockey cities do very well. Omsk averages around 8k, Traktor sells out every game with averages of around 7.5k, Yaroslavl gets around 8k every game, Amur sells out every game (Around 7k), Neftekhimik sell out every game (5.5k arena), Salavat Ufa averages around 7k in a 8k arena and so on.

St.Petersburg is a unique case. SKA St.Petersburg averages 12k selling out the arena on most nights, the football team Zenit averages 19k selling out its stadium (They are building a beautiful 60k stadium right now which is nearing completion and they are expected to average ~45k per game). St.Petersburg loves sport but are also lucky to have one team in the top flight in football and Hockey therefore the entire city can get behind one team unlike in Moscow.

Sure I get the point about the city culture. I was more surprised than anything as I expected it to be a bit different.

Same issues apply in the NHL. A place like Toronto or even Vancouver has a lot competing with ice hockey. Whereas a Place like Deadmonton has less competition.

With a population of 12 million there are more than enough people to fill CSKAs rink which holds ~5500.

Too put it in perspective Vancouver has a population of ~2.3 ish.

The price of 500 roubles is much cheaper than a lot of other option as well (dont get me started on how much it costs to eat out in Moscow.)

Hockey just isnt as popular in Russia and that makes it a tough sell. Before I went to Russia I had assumed it would be somewhat similar to Canada in popularity given the history. Especially a team like CSKA which is the "Montreal Canadiens" of Russia.

And dont get me started on trying to find russian jerseys lol

I walked forever down Leningradsky Propekt to find some shop that somebody said may or may not exist. That was after trying to find someone who knew what a hockey jersey was and what I was looking for. In the end I had to settle with buying my Krutov CCCP from an Arbat Street tourist shop.

Compared to what I will get in Vancouver where even the least knowledgeable person will know something about hockey and probably be a casual fan.

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12-27-2012, 01:04 AM
  #522
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Originally Posted by MOGiLNY View Post
I don't think attendance numbers in Russia reflect the interest in the sport.

Not sure about the KHL, but I feel that in soccer, the very low attendance is because of the atmosphere at the matches (swearing, hooligans etc) and people choose to watch the games from home.
I definitely didnt get the impression theres much hooliganism at a KHL game especially considering there was at least 50 heavily armed security guys outside near the end of the game.

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12-27-2012, 03:01 AM
  #523
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Originally Posted by MOGiLNY View Post
I don't think attendance numbers in Russia reflect the interest in the sport.
Exactly. I think we Russians just don't have this cult of going to an arena. However, nobody would argue that hockey is as popular in Russia as in Canada.

Quote:
I definitely didnt get the impression theres much hooliganism at a KHL game
Agree as well, the only thing that bothered me at all KHL arenas I've been to was people cursing left and right.

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12-27-2012, 05:25 AM
  #524
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@IIHFHockey: Russia's Maxim Shalunov suspended for one #2013WJC game, vs USA. English: http://t.co/JUM4gld9 In Russian: http://t.co/zthHWsxE

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12-27-2012, 05:36 AM
  #525
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@IIHFHockey: Russia's Maxim Shalunov suspended for one #2013WJC game, vs USA. English: http://t.co/JUM4gld9 In Russian: http://t.co/zthHWsxE
It's a fair suspension for a bit of nasty stick work that didn't cause a serious injury, just a little blood. No biggy. The IIHF got it right.

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