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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Lockout II - Moderated: Talk about your plenty, Talk about your ills...

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Old
12-03-2012, 05:14 PM
  #376
crazyforhockey
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Originally Posted by PanthersHockey1 View Post
IIRC I dont remember 04-05 lockout having 30 team profit/losses and contraction as a main point of discord the way it is now. Whats the difference between now and then?

If anything the NHL had bigger losses and less profit from the top end teams back then im guessing?
also the cap and spending has jumped dramtically for all teams....before the cap you could have the big market teams spending alot more and small market teams paying a fraction....with a moving cap floor ....alot of teams are forced to spend more


also with parity... more teams are willing to gamble on the spending ....even if marginally to increase their odds of playoffs or winning

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12-03-2012, 05:23 PM
  #377
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I honestly don't know what you're getting at. The point I was saying is that Jacobs has been around long enough to see what's happening in Tampa Bay before. Now do I know If Vinnik is going to bail out? Nope. Has it happend before? Yes.

Has Jacobs had to pay for this? Yes. See Pheonix.

I'm only trying to understand Jacob's motivations for being a hard liner. It may be more than this. "He's a big greedy *******." stuff that's spewed but this mob mentality that's turned into a bloody witch hunt.

I'll take the belief Jacobs is an owner that is in this for the long haul and in so doing has a vested interest in protecting the league and hense himself from the failure of small markets.
he does have a reputation when he has the arena sold out because of a huge loyal bruins fan club......and not spending on FA.....
even if you give him him some credit for being frugal and avoiding overpaying.... he would trade or/and let UFA go (for significant period) rather than spen money for a winnign team....very similiar to the Ballard years in Tor.



Also he is set.....with reguard to his team.....if the league is gone for a year.. he has very little turnover or UFA's coming due.....some teams will be hit hard by a lost year
ie see Anh with at least 4 top end players being UFAs or retired.


also Bos has seen many a team come and go....and he has show not to care about other GMS

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12-03-2012, 05:27 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
FWIW, got a letter from the Blackhawks today in response to my letter. (I've written the 30 NHL Governors. With this letter, I've had responses from three teams: Sharks, Devils and now Hawks)

Rocky delegated to VP to respond.
I didn't know they responded. what did JVB's dedicated PR crew say to you?

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12-03-2012, 05:31 PM
  #379
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1. Vinik moved his family, his business (and hired 50 more people) to Tampa.
2. The Bolts hold the lease to the arena which is 10 in the world for an indoor facility ticket sales. The overhead falls to the Lightning, so on paper they be losing, but they holding company that get the $ for the concerts/circus/RNC/AFL etc. is probably in a lot better shape.
3. He makes 5x to 10x a year of the reported losses, that's without touching his estimated $500-800m.
4. There is no dept. He paid cash, upgrades, cash, land around the arena cash.

Does Jacobs donate $50K a home game to a local charity/community hero, even when they are not playing? If you knew anything about Jeff Vinik you would know he is the direct opposite of Jacobs
You do know Jacobs is an active philanthropist, right?

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12-03-2012, 06:00 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by BoltSTH View Post
FYI. The Lightning have received revenue sharing/league $ exactly 1 time, and that was when the cowboys owned the club. Koules/Barrie should never had been allowed to own the club, it was done as Bill Davidson's widow wanted to sell ASAP, and PS&E lent 50% of the $ to buy it from themselves, but K/B never had the money to run it.
So Tampa may be a smaller hockey market (at least for now), but it is not a drain on anyone else like you are suggesting.
Also Vinik is in it for the long haul as well, with plans to redevelop the channelside district of Tampa
K/B never had the money to run it?
You've just finished telling me Tampa Bay is a risk free market that rarely takes revenue sharing. Maybe just because you didn't take revenue sharing doesn't mean you're making money.

Case 1:
If I buy a business for $100 that makes me $5 per year. Why am I forced to sell it because I don't have more money after that $100?

Case 2:
I spent all my money of $100 and my business lost $5 a year and I didn't have any money left. I would have to sell it it. And if I can't find a buyer... I go **** up. And who comes in to save the team then? Jacobs and company... to protect their investment.

Somehow you're telling me it's case 1. I'm going to go and believe case 2.

I can't see how I can explain it any further. You're hell bent on defending Tampa as a market and not understanding how Jacobs has the same interest as you. Seeing a stable team there. Jacobs probably wants that stability to come from a profitable market because relying on finding an Owner who's willing to lose money long term hasn't proven very... reliable in the past.

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12-03-2012, 07:12 PM
  #381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoltSTH View Post
FYI. The Lightning have received revenue sharing/league $ exactly 1 time, and that was when the cowboys owned the club. Koules/Barrie should never had been allowed to own the club, it was done as Bill Davidson's widow wanted to sell ASAP, and PS&E lent 50% of the $ to buy it from themselves, but K/B never had the money to run it.
So Tampa may be a smaller hockey market (at least for now), but it is not a drain on anyone else like you are suggesting.
Also Vinik is in it for the long haul as well, with plans to redevelop the channelside district of Tampa
If you want to characterize Tampa as a market, you would be better off arguing potential. One of the biggest arenas in NA and all the percs (real estate) that were included with the purchase of the team. I do think Vinik (or any potential owner) would look at it as a high risk/high reward investment. If he can turn the hockey side around it has the seating to get to near Chicago level gate. It is a matter of getting there.

You can also include the quote from Davidson about contributing $10mil a year in cash calls to keep Tampa afloat way back when.

For others,
Most people at the wealth level of the owners are philanthropic contributors. You might want to check on the charities to which they are contributing. Is it the Hoover Institute or Habitat? United Way? Or are they just playing Lone Ranger for people with serious hardships like disabled vets or people with genetic or disease issues? A lot of the rabidly conservative, anti-labor types go the Lone Ranger route and/or stay out of politically controversial giving.


Last edited by SJeasy: 12-03-2012 at 07:50 PM.
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12-03-2012, 07:16 PM
  #382
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@wbzsports: WBZ's Steve Burton reports deal to save #nhl season could be announced tmrw or Wednesday

‏@HackswithHaggs

I will say this about @wbzsports Steve Burton. He also broke news Phil Kessel had testicular cancer few yrs back. So theres that #Bruinstalk

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12-03-2012, 07:17 PM
  #383
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@wbzsports: WBZ's Steve Burton reports #nhl talks made progress behind closed doors & looks like the season will be salvaged

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12-03-2012, 07:18 PM
  #384
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Originally Posted by FakeKidPoker View Post
@wbzsports: WBZ's Steve Burton reports deal to save #nhl season could be announced tmrw or Wednesday

‏@HackswithHaggs

I will say this about @wbzsports Steve Burton. He also broke news Phil Kessel had testicular cancer few yrs back. So theres that #Bruinstalk
Was just going to post that. Gene Principe of the Oilers tweeted:
" WBZ's Steve Burton reports #nhl talks have made great progress behind closed doors. It looks like the season will be salvaged #really?"

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12-03-2012, 07:35 PM
  #385
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Originally Posted by vickpeterson View Post
Was just going to post that. Gene Principe of the Oilers tweeted:
" WBZ's Steve Burton reports #nhl talks have made great progress behind closed doors. It looks like the season will be salvaged #really?"
Good for them. Let them come back. Hope they enjoy the empty arenas.

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Old
12-03-2012, 07:40 PM
  #386
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No chance I'm getting my hopes up. Until multiple people confirm it, it means nothing. I don't care what some small time blogger thinks he knows.

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12-03-2012, 07:43 PM
  #387
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Don't get your hopes up guys.

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12-03-2012, 07:51 PM
  #388
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Still not sure who that is.

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12-03-2012, 07:52 PM
  #389
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Don't get your hopes up guys.
Nope. I was somewhat optimistic a couple of times, however I've found it a lot easier to just think of the season as a write off. That way if they actually get their **** together and come to an agreement and there is hockey this year, it'll be a pleasant surprise.

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12-03-2012, 07:56 PM
  #390
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Call me skeptical, but all of a sudden we've gone from two sides that are "miles" apart, that mediators have said are too far apart, that they are having this owners/players meeting to try and get something, anything going....


to "secret meetings" between unknown players and owners, completely unknown to media at all, it's all of a sudden wine and roses?

Not questioning the source necessarily, but rather where he's getting his info from.

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Old
12-03-2012, 08:00 PM
  #391
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Originally Posted by FakeKidPoker View Post
@wbzsports: WBZ's Steve Burton reports #nhl talks made progress behind closed doors & looks like the season will be salvaged
Oh plz not false hopes again

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12-03-2012, 08:02 PM
  #392
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I am not getting my hopes up until both sides vote to approve the deal.

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Old
12-03-2012, 08:14 PM
  #393
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Do love the notion of secret meetings though. Hope that there's some fire to this smoke at the very least.

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Old
12-03-2012, 08:36 PM
  #394
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Originally Posted by CerebralGenesis View Post
Still not sure who that is.
A Boston reporter.

Bill Daly already denied the report, but added that he's a good reporter.

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12-03-2012, 08:38 PM
  #395
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A Boston reporter.

Bill Daly already denied the report, but added that he's a good reporter.
Did daly really say he's a good reporter? Lol

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12-03-2012, 08:42 PM
  #396
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adater ‏@adater
Bill Daly denying @wbzsports on-air story saying NHL-players could announce a deal tomorrow or Wed. Steve Burton a good reporter though
Hm, the tweet was just worded funny...I guess Dater just added his own commentary at the end of it.

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12-03-2012, 08:46 PM
  #397
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He said something along the lines of "not a single morsel" of the report is true.

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12-03-2012, 08:57 PM
  #398
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The guy really went out on a limb there. He'll be a big hero if it is true. I can't imagine that it is, however.

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12-03-2012, 09:03 PM
  #399
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adater ‏@adater
For the record, nothing I've been told would back up WBZ story. I hope it's right, but...ain't making plane reservations to Calgary yet
I'm certainly not getting my hopes up.

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12-03-2012, 09:22 PM
  #400
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status quo

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