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Lockout II - Moderated: Talk about your plenty, Talk about your ills...

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Old
12-05-2012, 10:19 PM
  #826
LadyStanley
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http://kuklaskorner.com/hockey/comme...night-cba-talk

KK updating this post with latest gleaned from twitter.

About 2 minutes ago, Steve Fehr brought the gathered media some pizza.

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12-05-2012, 10:21 PM
  #827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
More Bob from a minute ago:

"IF I were going to read into anything, I'd be more likely to focus on fact that flow of info/details from room is shut down tight."


Hopefully everyone outside the rooms will relax and understand that things are going to be more tense the closer they get to an agreement. The cone of silence is a good thing.
Now would be a good time to bring this up from 1994. It's good to remember that as things draw to the ending point, negotiations often get heated, let's hope they don't break off this time. I wouldn't try to gauge too much based on what the reports are saying, you have to remember that with twitter they have to report even the smallest of things and in the end they're just small things in a big picture. Bob McKenzie has the right picture, the guy tried to read too much into something or speculated as much.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/09/13/garys-game/
Quote:
It wasn’t until Jan. 9, less than 24 hours from the league’s deadline, that the make-or-break bargaining session was convened. The meeting at the Four Seasons hotel in Manhattan started at 10:30 a.m., with the commissioner tabling what the Bruins’ Harry Sinden had called the owners’ “final, final, final, final, final offer.” Progress was fitful, and it was getting close to midnight when Bettman and Goodenow repaired to Shun Lee Palace, a Chinese restaurant that advertises itself as the ideal location for Upper East Side socialites, to hash the last details out over dinner. But things dragged on long after the egg rolls got cold. It was 6 a.m. when both negotiating teams, red-eyed and rumpled, met up in Goodenow’s hotel suite for what was supposed to be one last examination of the terms. The list was read aloud: an escalating cap on rookie salaries, beginning at US$850,000; check. The continuation of the existing arbitration system, but with a new right for owners to walk away from decisions they didn’t like up to three times every two years; check. A six-year term, with both sides retaining the right to reopen the deal after the 1997-98 season; check. Then came the provisions about free agency, and that’s where things went sideways. “Gary thought they had agreed on one thing, Bob thought they had agreed on another,” John McCambridge, one of the NHLPA lawyers, recounts. “People were getting pretty hot. The whole deal almost blew sky high.” What sounded to outsiders like a trifling matter—whether the age of unrestricted free agency would drop from 32 to 31 after the first year of the new agreement or the third—now threatened to derail the entire enterprise.

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12-05-2012, 10:23 PM
  #828
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It's still about one side giving up everything and the other giving up peanuts. Spin that like saints and devils if you want.
But it is what it is.
Yeah, everyone knew the PA side was going to be giving things up. That was never in question. They even admitted such. The only question was how much.

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12-05-2012, 10:24 PM
  #829
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how many hours has it been ? (for today)

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12-05-2012, 10:40 PM
  #830
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http://kuklaskorner.com/hockey/comme...night-cba-talk

added 11:02pm, via Tom Gulitti tweet,
The sides are still in different rooms right now. Players are still hanging around, though, and it's possible owners will return later.
added 11:05pm, Dan Rosen tweets,
After a long break a few owners just came down to meet with players again. Steve Fehr said earlier he wasn't sure if they were done tonight.
added 11:11pm, Numerous reports are the meeting is back in session.
added 11:17pm, Steve Fehr brings out pizza for media, media delighted.
added 11:33pm, Owners have left the meeting again. Yes it is a slow process but a good sign they continue to talk.

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12-05-2012, 10:41 PM
  #831
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Originally Posted by QuietCompany View Post
Now would be a good time to bring this up from 1994. It's good to remember that as things draw to the ending point, negotiations often get heated, let's hope they don't break off this time. I wouldn't try to gauge too much based on what the reports are saying, you have to remember that with twitter they have to report even the smallest of things and in the end they're just small things in a big picture. Bob McKenzie has the right picture, the guy tried to read too much into something or speculated as much.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/09/13/garys-game/
Wow that article is really informative. It's actually this part about 2004 that worries me now:

Quote:
Negotiations opened just after New Year’s 2003 with a meeting between Goodenow and Bettman in New York City. Having the main antagonists from the last lockout face off across the table was clearly not going to be a recipe for success. So a decision was made to embark on a different course: a series of informal, without-prejudice meetings where the two sides could freely explore all the options for a new collective bargaining agreement. The NHLPA would be represented by their deputy director, Ted Saskin, and outside lawyer John McCambridge. For the NHL, it would be Bob Batterman and Bettman’s major-domo, Bill Daly. The secret talks, dubbed Project Blue Fin after a seafood and sushi restaurant in the W Hotel in Times Square, the site of the initial meeting, were focused on finding a compromise. The mood was cordial and no subject was verboten.

There were close to a dozen sessions over four months, and it seemed like progress was being made, but then in early June, Goodenow and Bettman joined the group and things started to fall apart. In the presence of the main combatants, all the bad blood from the first lockout suddenly flowed back into the room, and winning became a lot more important than bargaining.

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Old
12-05-2012, 10:44 PM
  #832
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Well, if CBA term is a sticking point (don't believe it is yet). Then I think it more has to do with an evaluation period. Just like the old CBA, the owners "won" but it clearly did not work out as they planned economically. There may be the same cautious optimism for the next CBA deal, this looks good, but let's have it expire in a short-term so we can re-examine it.
TSN had reported that the NHL was seeking 10 years, with an out clause after 6 years (they didn't say who had the out clause).

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Old
12-05-2012, 10:49 PM
  #833
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Earlier someone Tweeted that the main NBC network has no live events scheduled for Christmas night. Chances they show the alleged Christmas games if the deal gets done ASAP?

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12-05-2012, 10:57 PM
  #834
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Please, no Christmas games. It's ridiculous. No one will care to watch them. Let the players go home for the holiday...

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Old
12-05-2012, 11:02 PM
  #835
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SiriusXMNHL 8:50pm via web We're approaching 12 AM EST..no word yet if owners will return to players for another meeting..Stay tuned!


SiriusXMNHL 9:02pm via web Part of the Owners' group has returned to the PA. The see-saw night continues.

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Old
12-05-2012, 11:03 PM
  #836
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Please, no Christmas games. It's ridiculous. No one will care to watch them. Let the players go home for the holiday...
I won't mind if it's for this year only, just don't make it a regular thing (and only hve games from about 11-4 EST): I have more important things to do on Christmas.

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12-05-2012, 11:03 PM
  #837
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Please, no Christmas games. It's ridiculous. No one will care to watch them. Let the players go home for the holiday...
Please Christmas games.

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Old
12-05-2012, 11:04 PM
  #838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylonus View Post
Please, no Christmas games. It's ridiculous. No one will care to watch them. Let the players go home for the holiday...
I would rather watch the NHL on Christmas than the NBA.

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Old
12-05-2012, 11:10 PM
  #839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
TSN had reported that the NHL was seeking 10 years, with an out clause after 6 years (they didn't say who had the out clause).
Out close are usually a two way street.

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12-05-2012, 11:16 PM
  #840
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Please Christmas games.
Christmas games are cruel to the athlete. That day is ment for family not trying to ram someone head first into the boards.

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12-05-2012, 11:16 PM
  #841
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Out close are usually a two way street.
You would think. However in the last CBA, only the PA had the option to extend it 1 year (not quite the same thing).

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Old
12-05-2012, 11:19 PM
  #842
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There's no need for it. Let the players go see their families. Unless your profession is something critical, where work is needed; go be with your family.

If the Penguins first game of the season is on Christmas day; I doubt I'll watch it. I'd rather spend time with family; enjoying the day.

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Old
12-05-2012, 11:24 PM
  #843
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
League bonuses do not count against the cap (or player share). This includes playoff $$ paid to teams (and split among players), cash bonus for winning all individual awards -- varying amount depending on award.
League paid performance and playoff bonuses do not count against any Club's Upper Limit, but they were included in the 54-57% Players Share - they are included under Benefits.

Quote:
50.3 Benefits, Preliminary Benefits.
(a) "Benefits."

(i) "Benefits" means:
(A) The aggregate amount of all sums paid by the League
and/or the Clubs (including any costs associated with the
administration and provision of such benefits) for, to, or on
behalf of present Players and present Players who become
former Players for:
(1) Pension funding (including any costs associated
with its administration and provision of such
benefits); plus

(2) Group insurance programs including life, medical
and dental coverage and any disability plans
(including any costs associated with the
administration and provision of such benefits); plus

(3) Playoff Pool amounts paid by the League, provided
that for each League Year, the parties have agreed
that the total Playoff Pool amounts to be paid by the
League shall be $6.5 million, all of which shall be
included in Benefits; plus

(4) Exhibit 5-B Individual Bonuses paid by the League;
plus

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12-05-2012, 11:25 PM
  #844
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Agree on the no Christmas games. Nice for us fans somewhat but it sucks for the players. Us fans can figure out other things to do on that day. No need for it.

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Old
12-05-2012, 11:45 PM
  #845
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
TSN had reported that the NHL was seeking 10 years, with an out clause after 6 years (they didn't say who had the out clause).
I thought it was the players that wanted a long-term CBA, and the owners wanted something short-term? This is definitely good news.

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12-05-2012, 11:46 PM
  #846
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I won't mind if it's for this year only, just don't make it a regular thing (and only hve games from about 11-4 EST): I have more important things to do on Christmas.
LOL,I'd be just the opposite. Gift opening in the morning, food preparation, eat around 2:00. By evening we're all bored, that would be the perfect time for games for us!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylonus View Post
There's no need for it. Let the players go see their families. Unless your profession is something critical, where work is needed; go be with your family.
Other than the ones who are in Europe, seems like most NHL players have been with family for quite an extended period of time!

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12-05-2012, 11:49 PM
  #847
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I thought it was the players that wanted a long-term CBA, and the owners wanted something short-term? This is definitely good news.
Opposite... the players want a shorter CBA.

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Old
12-05-2012, 11:53 PM
  #848
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LOL,I'd be just the opposite. Gift opening in the morning, food preparation, eat around 2:00. By evening we're all bored, that would be the perfect time for games for us!
My (rough) Christmas agenda:

Wake-up at 9 and open stockings
Open gifts at 9:45
Breakfast at 10:30: Grandparents and aunt come over * Depends on which side we're having dinner with
12-3:30 - probably nap for an hour, and play with my stuff! (and hopefully watching some NHL )
Dinner at 5
Family gifts at 7
And depending on the family:
Home/ finished by 10 for father's side.
Home/ finished by 12 for mother's side.

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12-06-2012, 12:07 AM
  #849
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I'm FINE if things need to take a while. Take until friday, take one week after that if you have to. Just for the LOVE of Easter-loving Christ, don't let Bill Daly say he's "disappointed".

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12-06-2012, 12:07 AM
  #850
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So they're done for the night. That was a pretty marathon session overall.

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