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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Lockout II - Moderated: Talk about your plenty, Talk about your ills...

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Old
11-29-2012, 04:47 PM
  #101
LadyStanley
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Originally Posted by JDrake28 View Post
Does anyone have any details on this NHLPA disclaimer of interest? It seems pretty self-explanitory but you never know.
Read the decertification thread. (Short answer "disclaimer of interest" = days to be able to start bringing lawsuits against league/teams of anti trust).

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11-29-2012, 04:48 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by atomic View Post
Can the owners fight? Even if they could they would be horribly outnumbered and there would be no linesemen to break it up.
no 29 owners would be safe as the players gang up on kicking the crap out of jacobs..



wouldnt be surprised if more than a few other owners "happened to " actually get in a few kicks too

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11-29-2012, 04:49 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by CerebralGenesis View Post
I'm actually intrigued by this. Get rid of the middle men and see how far apart both sides really are. Sure it is a volatile situation but it's already teetering and about to fall anyway so what's the loss?

If Fehr says no, I'm excited to see the reason why and what some players may think.
The bolded is the only reason for the offer. Bettman knows that such a meeting would be ludicrous and will be turned down. Just a little ploy to try and sow some more mistrust of Fehr within the union.

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Old
11-29-2012, 04:50 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by JDrake28 View Post
Does anyone have any details on this NHLPA disclaimer of interest? It seems pretty self-explanitory but you never know.
It just means the PA doesn't want to represent the players. There's no voting and formal process needed for this. The NBA players did this last year.

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11-29-2012, 04:56 PM
  #105
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How long have you been watching the NHL? The reason I ask is I need a point of reference as to what you're comparing today's NHL to. I've been watching since the early to mid 1980s it doesn't seem to me that the average talent per team has really changed that much from then to now. The only real difference I can tell in talent is that since the last lockout the outliers on either side of the curve have been drawn closer the mean which has resulted in unprecedented parity.

To my mind, contraction does far more damage to the league's credibility than any superficial rise in the average talent per team can possibly make up for. The league is never going back to Original Six (before my time) levels of talent concentration. Contraction is simply a death rattle from a league that's voluntarily killing it's own major league status.....and THAT is bad for business.
I think the whole watered down product line is a complete joke. There are more people playing hockey now than at any other time in history, and playing it with more skill than ever before. I watch hockey from the 60s all the time and the 6th defenseman on that team is no better than the 6th guy now. I will say that a bigger ice surface would improve things a hell of a lot though.

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11-29-2012, 04:57 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by UsernameWasTaken View Post
Katie Strang ‏@KatieStrangESPN
#CBA According to multiple sources Bettman proposed to D. Fehr a meeting between owners and players only, w/ no league or PA staff present.
If that's true, then Gary Bettman is an absolute fool.

I cannot think of a more moronic suggestion.

Why didn't Fehr counter with the suggestion that the owners and players play a pick-up hockey game -- winner gets the CBA they proposed.

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Old
11-29-2012, 04:59 PM
  #107
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Just fold the entire damn league and start from scratch.

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11-29-2012, 05:04 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by UsernameWasTaken View Post
Katie Strang ‏@KatieStrangESPN
#CBA According to multiple sources Bettman proposed to D. Fehr a meeting between owners and players only, w/ no league or PA staff present.
Great idea. What do they have to lose?

Allison from the Preds (Jason or Jamie I think) was on OTR yesterday saying that they should just sign the owners offer and get on with playing. His reasoning was that the consensus last time was that they lost the CBA talks, but their salaries skyrocketed soon afterwards. Its too bad more players dont realize this.

Edit: Ah just saw that he's retired. No wonder he speaks his mind. Makes sense.


Last edited by Cawz: 11-29-2012 at 05:11 PM.
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Old
11-29-2012, 05:10 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Number8 View Post
If that's true, then Gary Bettman is an absolute fool.

I cannot think of a more moronic suggestion.

Why didn't Fehr counter with the suggestion that the owners and players play a pick-up hockey game -- winner gets the CBA they proposed.
how is this bad exactly? now the players can talk to the owner without the Bettman-Fehr filter

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11-29-2012, 05:10 PM
  #110
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what amazes me is how the sides ever came to an agreement at all in 04-05 and eventually this time around? When and how is the decision ever made to finally cave in and concede? It clearly appears time is of no importance to either side. So what stops this from being a day, a week, a month, a year lockout?

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11-29-2012, 05:16 PM
  #111
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I wonder if the season is lost....whether players will remember some of the hardliners as the ybecome UFA's

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11-29-2012, 05:16 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by PanthersHockey1 View Post
what amazes me is how the sides ever came to an agreement at all in 04-05 and eventually this time around? When and how is the decision ever made to finally cave in and concede? It clearly appears time is of no importance to either side. So what stops this from being a day, a week, a month, a year lockout?
Last time it took the removal of the PA chief. It wouldn't be a shock if someone other than Fehr is driving the bus at the end of this one too. He doesn't have the credibility in the hockey "family" to push this thing in the direction of nuclear meltdown.

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Old
11-29-2012, 05:20 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Last time it took the removal of the PA chief. It wouldn't be a shock if someone other than Fehr is driving the bus at the end of this one too. He doesn't have the credibility in the hockey "family" to push this thing in the direction of nuclear meltdown.
Uh Goodenow wasn't removed until after the end of the lockout.

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Old
11-29-2012, 05:31 PM
  #114
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Since I heard Hockeyville was cancelled, CBC might get layoffs due to "overall costs of sports programming are down and CBC has saved money by not employing some freelancers who work on Hockey Night in Canada. However, Stewart said there may be layoffs ahead in the sports department if hockey does not resume by January."

http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/arts/story...bc-reruns.html
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/...cancelled.html

I'm fearing with CBC's contract due after 2013-14, NHL might terminate CBC's contract just how York Region Transit terminated First Student's contract in the middle of the strike in January during the 85 days.

If CBC's NHL contract is cancelled during the prolonged lockout, i'm think either Rogers (Citytv/SN), Bell (CTV), or potentially Shaw (Global) will pick up the broadcasting rights IMO to the games next season or 2014-15.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
Just fold the entire damn league and start from scratch.
The AFL did this back in 2009 when they were bankrupt and disbanded along with af2. However, their legal name was AF1 when they reformed the league after the assets were sold to them and reclaimed the "AFL" name for the 2010 season.


Last edited by SilverPlaqueVII: 11-29-2012 at 05:34 PM. Reason: Extra questions needed! :)
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Old
11-29-2012, 05:33 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Number8 View Post
If that's true, then Gary Bettman is an absolute fool.

I cannot think of a more moronic suggestion.

Why didn't Fehr counter with the suggestion that the owners and players play a pick-up hockey game -- winner gets the CBA they proposed.
Need more info. Why do you think this is moronic?

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Old
11-29-2012, 05:48 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by sixgunsdad View Post
Need more info. Why do you think this is moronic?
The owners are businessmen, the players are athletes. This is a business deal, which is why the players need someone like Fehr to represent them.

For a more direct example this is also why they have things like agents to negotiate their contracts. It would be like if you had a contract holdout the GM told the player to drop GM/Agent negotiation for a day and go talk to the owner.

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Old
11-29-2012, 05:56 PM
  #117
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Need more info. Why do you think this is moronic?
The other problem is the number of people involved. Logistically, how do you have 30 people on one side and 700 on the other negotiate?? Even "just talking" would be hugely problematic.

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Old
11-29-2012, 06:04 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by RandV View Post
The owners are businessmen, the players are athletes. This is a business deal, which is why the players need someone like Fehr to represent them.

For a more direct example this is also why they have things like agents to negotiate their contracts. It would be like if you had a contract holdout the GM told the player to drop GM/Agent negotiation for a day and go talk to the owner.
The players quite clealry do not need someone like Fehr. They need someone who is willing to engage in meaningful talks rather than piss off the other side.

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Old
11-29-2012, 06:11 PM
  #119
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The players quite clealry do not need someone like Fehr. They need someone who is willing to engage in meaningful talks rather than piss off the other side.
Yes like Paul Kelly, but that isn't in anyway relevant to the point concerning Bettman's suggestion. Taking away Donald Fehr doesn't exactly turn the PA into Paul Kelly, it just turns them into a large group of athletes.

To paraphrase again you're saying the players need to fire their lawyer while Bettman suggested the players put their lawyer aside for a moment and go talk to the judge directly. Not exactly the same thing here.

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Old
11-29-2012, 06:11 PM
  #120
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It's all PR. If one or most likely both of the sides weren't willing to budge when talking to mediators, an owner-player meeting is useless fluff.

It's insulting that they are barely out of the mediation room before trying to convince us how badly they want a deal done. They don't because if they did it would be done.

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11-29-2012, 06:24 PM
  #121
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When I was in the negotiations with my company, we were at a standstill for 4 months, mostly because of the lawyers. When we met with the owners face to face with no lawyers, we had a deal done that afternoon and both sides were happy with the outcome and it raised morale.

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11-29-2012, 06:42 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by The Last Dynasty View Post
how is this bad exactly? now the players can talk to the owner without the Bettman-Fehr filter
Because owners by definition are businessmen -- and hockey players, by and large, are not contract lawyers or businessmen.

There's a reason why hockey players hire agents.

Team owners do this sort of stuff day in day out. Players never get near it -- unless there is a strike/lockout -- and even then there are precious few really involved and really understanding the nuances of things.

Ridiculous suggestion and nothing more than a PR move at best.

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Old
11-29-2012, 06:43 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by PanthersHockey1 View Post
what amazes me is how the sides ever came to an agreement at all in 04-05 and eventually this time around? When and how is the decision ever made to finally cave in and concede? It clearly appears time is of no importance to either side. So what stops this from being a day, a week, a month, a year lockout?
When one side finally gets fed up, and decides to concede something (owners on contractual issues, PA on make whole, etc). Then talks will move forward a bit... until enough things have been conceded from either side and an agreement that both can live with has been reached.

Sadly for the players, they will feel more of a pinch than the NHL. Right now the NHLs game plan seems to be we'll make minor concessions as long as the PA takes the brunt of it... and appear to be content to wait the PA out. Will see over the next few months if that changes or not.

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11-29-2012, 06:46 PM
  #124
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i bet fehr will essentially brainwash the players with how them meeting with only the owners w/o him (or bettman and others) present isnt a smart decision.

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11-29-2012, 06:47 PM
  #125
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It's insulting that they are barely out of the mediation room before trying to convince us how badly they want a deal done. They don't because if they did it would be done.
There's a huge difference between wanting a deal done, and wanting the right deal done, or rather just not wanting a deal done at all costs.

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