Typical of this generation. Find the easy target instead of putting the responsibility where it belongs.
Ooooh put a warning on my coffee cup because I'm too dense to understand something that is boiled is hot.
The players were the ones on the ice. BUrke got the best ones he could he did his job. Until Feb 23 they were in playoff spot and the same players looked pretty good.
Just how much blame do you think he sould take?
I already said I feel his impact is about 1/24.
How much do you think he is impacting every game.
Typical of this generation? Reading what you've written, I'd garner you're a lot younger than most of the people complaining about the Leafs. Take your medicine respectfully son, and appreciate what others have gone through for a lot longer than you have.
To respond to your question, Burke should take all the blame during his tenure. If you, or I, were in charge we'd expect nothing less than 100% of the kudos for any success or failure. Would we not?
Not his fault if they couldn't beat the opposition.
obviously he didn't because teams who were below the leafs in the standings in his tenure have turned there teams around and have become better teams and made the playoffs.
When the team sucks for 4 years, whom do you blame?
Sometimes that just the way things go.
Other teams are improving and getting better.
There is a good list of teams in every sport who went from crap to good seemingly overnight but it was a steady progession.
Is the team in better shape than it was 4 years ago?
Looking at the Leafs situation...Since Burke took charge: Over the last 4 years Wilson was the 2nd biggest problem. The #1 problem was just lack of talent. Our best player was Antropov. Decent if you have 2 better player to put with him on a 1st line. Otherwise not someone to build around or keep as leader.
#3 was assets available to move. OUr Best asset was Kaberle. He Stayed a year too long to get full value. Still a 1st , former 1st and a 2nd ispretty good. Sounds a lot like what the LEafs gave up to get Kessel.
The biggest bone of contention I have with Burke is the things he says! "Were going to be a big, bad, mean, tough team to play against" (he said this when he first arrived) and yet he goes out and acquires the smallest/sofest players instead. He says "I don't believe in 5 year rebuilds" yet here we are nearly 5 years later still a lottery team and still rebuilding, the opposite of what he oringally said. He says "Oh July 1st will be our draft day", what does he do? Goes out and signs Connolly as his best signing.
If your going to make a statement then you need to follow through with it, thats the biggest thing about Burke he likes to talk alot but he never follows through.
I'm fine with a full on rebuild but for the love of god be honest about it, I hate soft ballerina type teams but if Burke said that was the type of team he wanted I'd be fine with it, if Burke kept his mouth shut about free agent day and only landed Connolly I'd be fine with it. What I'm not cool with is the hypocrisy that constantly comes out of that guy;s mouth!
What's the point in paying a GM millions a year then? I could accomplish the same results as the current Leafs GM.
YOu have the credibility and equity to make the Gardiner deal?
This is why you guys are lost.
You miss half the picture.
How are you going to get fair value if the other GM views you as some punk?
JFJ got taken advantage of because every GM knew his feet were being held to the fire.
Burke is in control. He is big enough to be incontrol in Toronto. He has the resume to tell anyone to go **** themselves if they try to tell him what to do.
YOu guy are missing all this. You want to go back to the Rask for Raycroft trades?
The biggest bone of contention I have with Burke is the things he says! "Were going to be a big, bad, mean, tough team to play against" (he said this when he first arrived) and yet he goes out and acquires the smallest/sofest players instead. He says "I don't believe in 5 year rebuilds" yet here we are nearly 5 years later still a lottery team and still rebuilding, the opposite of what he oringally said. He says "Oh July 1st will be our draft day", what does he do? Goes out and signs Connolly as his best signing.
If your going to make a statement then you need to follow through with it, thats the biggest thing about Burke he likes to talk alot but he never follows through.
I'm fine with a full on rebuild but for the love of god be honest about it, I hate soft ballerina type teams but if Burke said that was the type of team he wanted I'd be fine with it, if Burke kept his mouth shut about free agent day and only landed Connolly I'd be fine with it. What I'm not cool with is the hypocrisy that constantly comes out of that guy;s mouth!
YOu have the credibility and equity to make the Gardiner deal?
This is why you guys are lost.
You miss half the picture.
How are you going to get fair value if the other GM views you as some punk?
JFJ got taken advantage of because every GM knew his feet were being held to the fire.
Burke is in control. He is big enough to be incontrol in Toronto. He has the resume to tell anyone to go **** themselves if they try to tell him what to do.
YOu guy are missing all this. You want to go back to the Rask for Raycroft trades?
I just don't believe it.
Just a reminder, while you've been in love with the "big man" who can't get pushed around, the Leafs have been a bottom feeder. I don't fall in love with names, I just believe the Leafs could do better.
Typical of this generation? Reading what you've written, I'd garner you're a lot younger than most of the people complaining about the Leafs. Take your medicine respectfully son, and appreciate what others have gone through for a lot longer than you have.
Wisdom come with knowledge not with age, but I am older than the majority on here.
So you want to build this team like Punch Imlach? Sorry those days are over. Adapt or become extinct.
Quote:
To respond to your question, Burke should take all the blame during his tenure. If you, or I, were in charge we'd expect nothing less than 100% of the kudos for any success or failure. Would we not?
NO!
No I would not.
I understand other people had a huge impacton the outcome. Much more of an impact than I had. As A GM I might bring in the pieces but the players and the coaches determine whether the team wins or not.
Just a reminder, while you've been in love with the "big man" who can't get pushed around, the Leafs have been a bottom feeder. I don't fall in love with names, I just believe the Leafs could do better.
With WHO? C'mon wise guy who is the hockey genius that is sitting by the phone waiting for the LEasfs to call to come in and fix their problems.
4 years ago problems mind you. This team has 10x the assets it had when Burke got here so you can't come in and move Kessel, Lupul, Phaneuf, Gardiner and Frattin and say "Oh what a lovely rebuild. This is how it is done." Cause BUrke has done all the heavy lifting up until now.
Don't bother. This has been asked 100 times already and no one can come up with a decent answer, and you have had a chance amongst the 100.
The biggest bone of contention I have with Burke is the things he says! "Were going to be a big, bad, mean, tough team to play against" (he said this when he first arrived) and yet he goes out and acquires the smallest/sofest players instead. He says "I don't believe in 5 year rebuilds" yet here we are nearly 5 years later still a lottery team and still rebuilding, the opposite of what he oringally said. He says "Oh July 1st will be our draft day", what does he do? Goes out and signs Connolly as his best signing.
If your going to make a statement then you need to follow through with it, thats the biggest thing about Burke he likes to talk alot but he never follows through.
I'm fine with a full on rebuild but for the love of god be honest about it, I hate soft ballerina type teams but if Burke said that was the type of team he wanted I'd be fine with it, if Burke kept his mouth shut about free agent day and only landed Connolly I'd be fine with it. What I'm not cool with is the hypocrisy that constantly comes out of that guy;s mouth!
This seems common. People hate him for what he says.
He signed Komi, Orr, and drafted The Human Eraser they were supposed bring truculence.
He couldn't control all the potential UFA's getting signed.
Only C available better than Connolly was Richards and he was going to NYR without question.
With WHO? C'mon wise guy who is the hockey genius that is sitting by the phone waiting for the LEasfs to call to come in and fix their problems.
4 years ago problems mind you. This team has 10x the assets it had when Burke got here so you can't come in and move Kessel, Lupul, Phaneuf, Gardiner and Frattin and say "Oh what a lovely rebuild. This is how it is done." Cause BUrke has done all the heavy lifting up until now.
Don't bother. This has been asked 100 times already and no one can come up with a decent answer, and you have had a chance amongst the 100.
In your small little world, there is no name that would please you. Nothing short of Ken Holland would satisfy you, but let me remind you of this... Ken Holland got his first job somewhere. Enough of the beaten wife syndrome where we are afraid to change things because we wonder who else there is. There are billions of people on this planet, surely more than 30 of them are capable of putting together a decent hockey team.
"BUrke's players were good enough to be in a playoff spot Feb 23 2012."
- Ok then, if they were good enough to be in a playoff spot Feb 23rd then they were also bad enough to fall to the bottom by the end of the season too.
We started our fall out of the playoffs last year on November 5th.....our record after this point was not very good. We had a very poor December losing 9 of 13 games. We played well enough in Jan and then continued with the December slide after this point.
We were not a playoff team at all last season....our records with simple wins loss no matter how until the Nov 5th game against Boston was 9-4 afterwards was 26-43.
This seems common. People hate him for what he says.
He signed Komi, Orr, and drafted The Human Eraser they were supposed bring truculence.
He couldn't control all the potential UFA's getting signed.
Only C available better than Connolly was Richards and he was going to NYR without question.
Those arguments have Zero as in 0 merit.
1. I liked the Komi signing, people hated him because of how he struggled but thats more of a reflection on Wilsons uptemo run'n gun style. Komi when he keeps it simple, doesn't jump into the attack and doesn't handle the puck is surprisingly under-rated in his own end. I really think he'll improve under Carlyle, doubt he'll be a top 4 guy, but he'll still be a servicable bottom pairing guy.
2. He never drafted Schenn, get your facts right before posting! Fletcher drafted Schenn in 07' with the 5th overall pick, Burke had nothing to do with that. Only thing Burke did with Schenn was trade him which was mornoic, Carlyle is a defense first coach and Schenn is a good defensive player, he would have been a decent defensmen under Carlyle's toutalge, but nope burke traded for him because he saw JVR listed at 6'3 and thought he oozed sex appeal.
3. Burke's struggled with FA because of his absurd notion of being reluctant to give guys north of 5 year contracts, but in Burkes defense not many FA's elite ones have ever signed here, so yes your right in that sense he had no control over that.
4. I still feel Connolly was a bad signing, the guy has a bad history of injuries and poor attitude on/off ice. Burke should never have signed him, instead he should have given a guy like Kadri a chance to play a top 9 centre role with the leafs.
The biggest bone of contention I have with Burke is the things he says! "Were going to be a big, bad, mean, tough team to play against" (he said this when he first arrived) and yet he goes out and acquires the smallest/sofest players instead. He says "I don't believe in 5 year rebuilds" yet here we are nearly 5 years later still a lottery team and still rebuilding, the opposite of what he oringally said. He says "Oh July 1st will be our draft day", what does he do? Goes out and signs Connolly as his best signing.
If your going to make a statement then you need to follow through with it, thats the biggest thing about Burke he likes to talk alot but he never follows through.
I'm fine with a full on rebuild but for the love of god be honest about it, I hate soft ballerina type teams but if Burke said that was the type of team he wanted I'd be fine with it, if Burke kept his mouth shut about free agent day and only landed Connolly I'd be fine with it. What I'm not cool with is the hypocrisy that constantly comes out of that guy;s mouth!
Exactly...he made his bed we are only asking that he lies in it!
If you are going to talk the talk then you must walk the walk......
In your small little world, there is no name that would please you. Nothing short of Ken Holland would satisfy you, but let me remind you of this... Ken Holland got his first job somewhere. Enough of the beaten wife syndrome where we are afraid to change things because we wonder who else there is. There are billions of people on this planet, surely more than 30 of them are capable of putting together a decent hockey team.
Damn straight. Actually I'm losing the vibe for Holland. I don't think I would trade him for Burke right now. Best thing he might have done in the past 4 years is sign Gustavsson. Burke has made far better moves.
Because there is no one out there with a better resume than Burke.
1. I liked the Komi signing, people hated him because of how he struggled but thats more of a reflection on Wilsons uptemo run'n gun style. Komi when he keeps it simple, doesn't jump into the attack and doesn't handle the puck is surprisingly under-rated in his own end. I really think he'll improve under Carlyle, doubt he'll be a top 4 guy, but he'll still be a servicable bottom pairing guy.
2. He never drafted Schenn, get your facts right before posting! Fletcher drafted Schenn in 07' with the 5th overall pick, Burke had nothing to do with that. Only thing Burke did with Schenn was trade him which was mornoic, Carlyle is a defense first coach and Schenn is a good defensive player, he would have been a decent defensmen under Carlyle's toutalge, but nope burke traded for him because he saw JVR listed at 6'3 and thought he oozed sex appeal.
3. Burke's struggled with FA because of his absurd notion of being reluctant to give guys north of 5 year contracts, but in Burkes defense not many FA's elite ones have ever signed here, so yes your right in that sense he had no control over that.
4. I still feel Connolly was a bad signing, the guy has a bad history of injuries and poor attitude on/off ice. Burke should never have signed him, instead he should have given a guy like Kadri a chance to play a top 9 centre role with the leafs.
Sorry on the Schenn. Burke just spent July 1 in Afghanistan with him to show him how important he was to the team. And he was. Scored us a fromer #2 overall pick. not bad.
JVR doesn't ooze sex appeal. HE is size and potential. Close I can see how you might have mis heard. Sex appeal Size and potential. Well maybe a bit of a stretch but I'll give you the benifit of the doubt.
Damn straight. Actually I'm losing the vibe for Holland. I don't think I would trade him for Burke right now. Best thing he might have done in the past 4 years is sign Gustavsson. Burke has made far better moves.
Because there is no one out there with a better resume than Burke.
YOu want another JFJ? Another Gord Stellick?
That's nuts.
Are you kidding me? Any validity to your statements are gone with that Holland "vibe" comment.
You're getting sick of the Red Wings making the playoffs, for the past 20 straight years? No other team has done that in any of the 4 major sporting leagues in North America.
The best thing that Holland has done in the past is not changing a thing! If its not broken, then don't fix it. Pretty simple concept there.
Are you kidding me? Any validity to your statements are gone with that Holland "vibe" comment.
You're getting sick of the Red Wings making the playoffs, for the past 20 straight years? No other team has done that in any of the 4 major sporting leagues in North America.
The best thing that Holland has done in the past is not changing a thing! If its not broken, then don't fix it. Pretty simple concept there.
Gardiner trade
Phaneuf trade
Kaberle trade
When has Holland done anything close in the past 4 years?
He has a very sound structure of veterans and an amazing system where he brings in rookies when they're ready.
When you have Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Filppula already on your roster, which he brought in might I add, you are set for years.
A little bit unfair to be comparing Holland's very long tenure to 4 years of Burke. Holland has had recent success on the strength of a 3rd round pick (Lidstrom) and two very late picks (Zetts, Datsyuk). I'm sure if we gave Burke 15+ years at the helm of the Leafs he'd hit a few home runs as well.
Fact is, the future of this team is much brighter now than it was when Burke was hired. Can't wait to see this team in 3-5 years, hopefully with Burke still in charge.
