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ATD 2013 - Planning

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Old
12-18-2012, 08:35 PM
  #126
overpass
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Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
I mean, yeah, I don't know...I said "if"...I've never even been in an ATD before, how should I know
My sense is that most people tend to implicitly compare it to the modern game, and draft so they can fit historical players into modern roles. Which is fine in a way, the modern game is what most of us know best. Almost every work of history will reveal a lot about the cultural assumptions of the author's time. It's no different with the ATD.

I think a few years ago more people were working with an 80s/early 90s mental framework in mind, but most GMs are pretty solidly in the post-lockout mindset now. (Thinking mostly of the declining value put on physical play, fighting, and intimidation - many GMs tend to discount it now and say oh well, I'll just score on the PP, where a few years ago you couldn't afford to have a team that would get run over.)

pappyline tended to work with an O6 mindset to some degree, which was one reason his teams were always interesting - just a bit different. Unfortunately there isn't as much variety in this area as there used to be.

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12-18-2012, 08:59 PM
  #127
Mike Farkas
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I think if you have a good vision for the game and can explain yourself well enough, the sky is the limit just about. Personally, I'm a defensive guy by trade, but very adaptable. I'm only a veteran of two drafts (the latest MLD and AAA) and I just think about the ways that my selections can impact the game the most based on the talent level. Because I had no idea if the game was played on the moon in 1893 or whatever, so I just thought about it the way I think about things.

For the MLD, I thought, "well, the best offense must be gone by now...but all of the best defense can't have been taken - specifically defensive forwards" ...so I searched out guys that were heavily counted upon for defense against ATD-level offensive players and thought, "if they could shut down ATD-level offense, they can shut down MLD-level offense without breaking a sweat..."

Then in the AAA draft, I thought differently. I thought that the offensive skill and defensive skill (whatever is known of it) probably evened out at this point. So I focused on the greatly weakened defense position and how to apply pressure to it. A speedy forecheck to force mid- and low-level defensemen to cave under the pressure of...pressure...would be the best means to accomplish victory.

So, I guess in place of time and place, I just relied on some fundamental concepts to aid in my selecting process. So far, so good I suppose...but if I'm involved in the ATD, I'll very likely be overmatched as it seems like an event of grandiose proportions. I'm looking forward to the spectacle whether I'm active in it or paying admission like everyone else...

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Old
12-18-2012, 09:07 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
I think if you have a good vision for the game and can explain yourself well enough, the sky is the limit just about. Personally, I'm a defensive guy by trade, but very adaptable. I'm only a veteran of two drafts (the latest MLD and AAA) and I just think about the ways that my selections can impact the game the most based on the talent level. Because I had no idea if the game was played on the moon in 1893 or whatever, so I just thought about it the way I think about things.

For the MLD, I thought, "well, the best offense must be gone by now...but all of the best defense can't have been taken - specifically defensive forwards" ...so I searched out guys that were heavily counted upon for defense against ATD-level offensive players and thought, "if they could shut down ATD-level offense, they can shut down MLD-level offense without breaking a sweat..."

Then in the AAA draft, I thought differently. I thought that the offensive skill and defensive skill (whatever is known of it) probably evened out at this point. So I focused on the greatly weakened defense position and how to apply pressure to it. A speedy forecheck to force mid- and low-level defensemen to cave under the pressure of...pressure...would be the best means to accomplish victory.

So, I guess in place of time and place, I just relied on some fundamental concepts to aid in my selecting process. So far, so good I suppose...but if I'm involved in the ATD, I'll very likely be overmatched as it seems like an event of grandiose proportions. I'm looking forward to the spectacle whether I'm active in it or paying admission like everyone else...
Once you get started the ATD isn't as intimidating as it looks. In terms of fielding a competitive team, of course you want to get good value in the draft but it really helps to be able to communicate a clear vision for how the team will function and succeed, like you said. It's not all about statistical hair-splitting.

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Old
12-18-2012, 09:13 PM
  #129
Hawkey Town 18
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One thing that really bothered me last year was it seemed like goaltending didn't matter. If you're going to have a bottom 5 goalie, you'd better be so superior with your skaters, or you should lose - but that wasn't the case.

It's all relative, so in our league Roy or Hasek or Sawchuck are stars...and Barasso/Rayner/Giacomin etc. suck like James Reimer.
I wouldn't say that entirely, but you are on to something. Of the 8 teams that made it to their divisional final, Gump Worsley is the only one that hasn't been ranked in the HOH Top Goalie project that is going on right now (currently up to 24); however, all but 2 (Brimsek and Vezina) were ranked below 16th (which would be the bottom half of ATD goalies since it was 32 teams).

For me it felt that if you had a real low end goaltender, like bottom 5, you still got "punished" for it. Of course I may be biased here since I had Barrasso, but I can think of one other team off the top of my head that had a low end goalie that I thought got eliminated sooner than they deserved.

Going the other way...it is interesting that none of the "elite" goalies made it to the final 8. Not saying any of them for sure should have (I don't remember what the teams were), but it is something to think about.


Last edited by Hawkey Town 18: 12-18-2012 at 09:18 PM.
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Old
12-18-2012, 09:14 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
So, I guess in place of time and place, I just relied on some fundamental concepts to aid in my selecting process. So far, so good I suppose...but if I'm involved in the ATD, I'll very likely be overmatched as it seems like an event of grandiose proportions. I'm looking forward to the spectacle whether I'm active in it or paying admission like everyone else...
You should definitely participate

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12-18-2012, 09:19 PM
  #131
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We should also add a top 20 scorers list over the ATD season and awards as well. Top 10 scorers from last season:

1) Gretzky (Inglewood) - 82 45 73 118
2) Howe (Philadelphia) - 79 43 62 105
3) Lemieux (Hartford) - 68 50 53 103
4) Esposito (Montreal AAA) - 78 43 58 101
5) Jagr (AK Bars) - 82 38 60 98
6) Hull (Toronto Leafs) - 81 55 42 97
7) Taylor (Halifax) - 78 49 46 95
8) Orr (Pittsburgh) - 71 31 64 95
9) Lafleur (Atlanta) - 75 48 46 94
10) Coffey (Guelph) 82 29 63 92

Yes I have a lot of time on my hands right now, lol.


Last edited by monster_bertuzzi: 12-18-2012 at 10:24 PM.
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12-19-2012, 12:38 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
We should also add a top 20 scorers list over the ATD season and awards as well. Top 10 scorers from last season:

1) Gretzky (Inglewood) - 82 45 73 118
2) Howe (Philadelphia) - 79 43 62 105
3) Lemieux (Hartford) - 68 50 53 103
4) Esposito (Montreal AAA) - 78 43 58 101
5) Jagr (AK Bars) - 82 38 60 98
6) Hull (Toronto Leafs) - 81 55 42 97
7) Taylor (Halifax) - 78 49 46 95
8) Orr (Pittsburgh) - 71 31 64 95
9) Lafleur (Atlanta) - 75 48 46 94
10) Coffey (Guelph) 82 29 63 92

Yes I have a lot of time on my hands right now, lol.
You'd wanna knock Taylor down 12 goals and up 12 assists.

Jagr would outscore Espo.

I doubt Coffey makes the top-10 but if he does, no defenseman other than Orr hits 29+ goals. He's a 20-goal guy.

I'm also sure guys like Beliveau, Mikita and Morenz, at least, outscore Taylor, LaFleur and Coffey.

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12-19-2012, 01:10 AM
  #133
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You'd wanna knock Taylor down 12 goals and up 12 assists.

Jagr would outscore Espo.

I doubt Coffey makes the top-10 but if he does, no defenseman other than Orr hits 29+ goals. He's a 20-goal guy.

I'm also sure guys like Beliveau, Mikita and Morenz, at least, outscore Taylor, LaFleur and Coffey.
I wanted to get someone from Guelph in there because they had such an electric offensive team. I think Sakic is a 75-80 guy in this league, Coffey would have went off getting the puck to people like Sakic, Hull, Richards, Bucyk, Gaborik etc.


Last edited by monster_bertuzzi: 12-19-2012 at 01:26 AM.
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12-19-2012, 01:30 AM
  #134
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It's hard to believe that Cyclone Taylor would not be top-10 in scoring in any competition, even all time.

Those who think that the top-10 scorers of all-time would be all from the last fifty years or so need to question whether they have a modern bias.


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12-19-2012, 01:58 AM
  #135
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It's hard to believe that Cyclone Taylor would not be top-10 in scoring in any competition, even all time.

Those who think that the top-10 scorers of all-time would be all from the last fifty years or so need to question whether they have a modern bias.

alright, I look forward to you selecting Taylor over Beliveau, Mikita and Morenz then.

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12-19-2012, 02:07 AM
  #136
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alright, I look forward to you selecting Taylor over Beliveau, Mikita and Morenz then.
Over le gros Bill? No way! Over Espo, Jagr or Coffey? Dang straight!

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12-19-2012, 02:52 AM
  #137
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No way id take Cyclone over Beliveau, Mikita, or Morenz...and if a GM did I suggest they get their head checked. He's kind of hard to build around, very similar to Morenz. I take Jagr over him for sure, something tells me Jaromir may crack the top 20 this time.

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12-21-2012, 07:22 AM
  #138
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As one of the most ardent supporters of trades, even I must admit that it may be time to try a no-trades draft and see how it plays out.

That said, I'm still undecided if I'll participate.

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12-21-2012, 08:38 AM
  #139
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I know it's a little off topic, but an ATD auction draft would be a blast. Too late for this year, but have each gm start off with a set budget and then have "bids" for one plAyer at a time. It would really add another dynamic to the draft. And yes I realize the number one priority of the atd is hockeys history etc.. that would still be the main goal of the draft.


Last edited by markrander87: 12-21-2012 at 08:48 AM.
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12-21-2012, 09:57 AM
  #140
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I know it's a little off topic, but an ATD auction draft would be a blast. Too late for this year, but have each gm start off with a set budget and then have "bids" for one plAyer at a time. It would really add another dynamic to the draft. And yes I realize the number one priority of the atd is hockeys history etc.. that would still be the main goal of the draft.
That wouldn't be an ATD, because it wouldn't be a draft, it would be an auction. Count me out.

EDIT: Canadiens1958 has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space.


Last edited by Wrigley: 12-21-2012 at 10:01 AM. Reason: Helping C1958 prepare for the ATD
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12-21-2012, 10:21 AM
  #141
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Not Interested

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That wouldn't be an ATD, because it wouldn't be a draft, it would be an auction. Count me out.

EDIT: Canadiens1958 has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space.
Not interested. Thank you.

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12-21-2012, 11:22 AM
  #142
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That wouldn't be an ATD, because it wouldn't be a draft, it would be an auction. Count me out.

EDIT: Canadiens1958 has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space.
It's an auction draft...

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12-21-2012, 04:30 PM
  #143
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I think it would be fun and I'd be willing to try it.

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12-21-2012, 04:50 PM
  #144
Hawkey Town 18
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I think it would be fun and I'd be willing to try it.
I would be willing to try it, but would want it to be a 2nd draft, not replace the normal ATD

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12-21-2012, 05:05 PM
  #145
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It would be such a different beast, especially to try and organize that it would have to be a separate entity all together. Although you could use the ATD draft list to determine when players are up for bidding.

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12-21-2012, 06:01 PM
  #146
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No to the auction idea...

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12-21-2012, 06:21 PM
  #147
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No to the auction idea...
to clarify, i don't think anyone was suggesting that we change our tried and true ATD to that format. just something different that could be experimented with on the side if anything.

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12-21-2012, 06:59 PM
  #148
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That could definitely be interesting, I'm not a huge fan of derailing the tracks of the main drag, but definitely as a side project that we could as a substitution or an addition to the lower-level drafts.

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12-21-2012, 07:21 PM
  #149
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I wouldn't mind skipping the AAA draft next year and trying out the auction

(so says the guy who skipped the aaa draft anyway).


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12-21-2012, 07:24 PM
  #150
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As long as it doesn't go near the ATD. I am open to the idea of trying a trade-free draft though.

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