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ATD 2013 - Planning

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Old
12-31-2012, 12:12 PM
  #201
vecens24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
Would like to learn more about this idea, sounds perfect.

The reason why I would like teams to miss the playoffs is to bring player values in line with reality. Marcel Dionne should be a 1st line centre. Claude Lemieux should not be a second line RW. But because all teams make the playoffs, it incentivizes only judging players based on their post season play, making all time greats liabilities and average players assets.
Basically the World Cup Qualifier way is like this:

In the Europe part of WC qualifiers, the teams that finish first in their group get into the main draw of the World Cup.

Then, the 2nd place teams have to play in a playoff to get in. What they do is they split teams into two groups based on FIFA rankings. One team from the first group randomly plays a team from the second group. Then you go from there.

In this scenario, what we could do is put all of the 2nd place teams into one group, all the third place teams into another group, then match one team up against a team from the other group randomly, then fill out a bracket (there are easy places to do this online).

Or EB's idea of just matching up two divisions with each other works here too. Then creating a bracket from there.


I personally really like this idea because it incentivizes the regular season so much more. It's extremely beneficial to finish first in your division (bye), and if you finish last you're no longer in the running.

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12-31-2012, 03:36 PM
  #202
tony d
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My 2 cents:

1) I'd encourage any new GM to co-gm. It's how I got my start in this in 2010, it's always good to have someone to bounce your ideas for who you want to draft off of. Also through those people you'll find there's more to a hockey player than stats.

2) I like the idea of a 8 4 team divisions with 1 team in each missing the playoffs, it would certainly make things interesting and make for some interesting picks later in the draft.

3) I think we should aim to start the sign ups within the next week with an aim of starting the draft by the final weekend of January. Also this year let's all make an effort to have these drafts completed in a timely manner. No need for having the 3rd draft being stretched into the new year. I like a schedule of starting the ATD in January, having it finished by early May, then start the MLD in mid June, end that in mid August and then starting the AAA draft by mid September, the AA draft in November and any further drafts in December.

Also let me take the time to wish everyone involved in these drafts a very Happy New Year, may 2013 be the best year yet for all of you. Also I will be competing in the ATD 2013.

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12-31-2012, 06:00 PM
  #203
BenchBrawl
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Anybody against the idea of starting the sign-up thread tomorrow?

That would give approximately 19-31 days to reach the usual suspects and make sure everybody has the time to take the decision of whether or not they participate in the draft.It would also give us a clearer picture on the number of teams.

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12-31-2012, 08:45 PM
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony d View Post
I think we should aim to start the sign ups within the next week with an aim of starting the draft by the final weekend of January. Also this year let's all make an effort to have these drafts completed in a timely manner. No need for having the 3rd draft being stretched into the new year. I like a schedule of starting the ATD in January, having it finished by early May, then start the MLD in mid June, end that in mid August and then starting the AAA draft by mid September, the AA draft in November and any further drafts in December.
Great idea. That's how it was in 2011.

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Originally Posted by tony d View Post
Also let me take the time to wish everyone involved in these drafts a very Happy New Year, may 2013 be the best year yet for all of you. Also I will be competing in the ATD 2013.

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12-31-2012, 09:03 PM
  #205
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If there will be eight divisions instead of four competing for the Milt Dunnell Cup, then four more divisional names could be created, to honour non-player figures in hockey history. Suggestions? Candidates could be nominated then voted upon.

Red Fisher Conference

Foster Hewitt Division
Jim Robson Division
NEW DIVISION
NEW DIVISION

Jim Coleman Conference

Bob Cole Division
Rene Lecavalier Division
NEW DIVISION
NEW DIVISION

One candidate: a Ray Scapinello Division, named after the longest serving on-ice official in NHL history (1971-2004), a staggering 33 years on the ice, including twenty Stanley Cup championship series.


Last edited by VanIslander: 12-31-2012 at 09:10 PM.
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12-31-2012, 10:24 PM
  #206
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I would suggest a Sam Pollock Division , one of the greatest GM of all-time if not the greatest.


Last edited by BenchBrawl: 01-01-2013 at 02:51 AM.
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01-01-2013, 09:42 AM
  #207
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Two worthy suggestions. May I suggest Frederick Stanley / Lord Stanley of Preston, to which we owe the most famous trophy in sport history.

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01-01-2013, 01:45 PM
  #208
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Playoffs: If some teams will not make the playoffs, I think we should have the option of opting out of them. That way the uninterested GMs can opt out and the interested teams can get in.

Trades: I'd like to see teams have the option of trading all their picks before the draft and making one trade after the draft starts. Of course the latter trade would have to be approved and if we use the simple "All trades must have a ratio of < (3:1)" it would avoid any controversy.


Last edited by Hawkman: 01-01-2013 at 02:13 PM.
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01-01-2013, 02:37 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by God Made Me View Post
Playoffs: If some teams will not make the playoffs, I think we should have the option of opting out of them. That way the uninterested GMs can opt out and the interested teams can get in.

Trades: I'd like to see teams have the option of trading all their picks before the draft and making one trade after the draft starts. Of course the latter trade would have to be approved and if we use the simple "All trades must have a ratio of < (3:1)" it would avoid any controversy.
- Good idea, although I hope no one wants to opt out of the playoffs.

- I'm fairly certain that trading a set of picks for another one is widely accepted around here.

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01-01-2013, 08:25 PM
  #210
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Every team should make the playoffs. I don't trust that the seedings would be correct in the first place (they never are IMO).

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01-01-2013, 08:39 PM
  #211
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imo, every team should make the playoffs.

ATD would be less interesting and certainly less fun, and those who miss the playoffs would probably be less likely to vote on playoff series.

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01-02-2013, 10:05 AM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
imo, every team should make the playoffs.

ATD would be less interesting and certainly less fun, and those who miss the playoffs would probably be less likely to vote on playoff series.
Yeah the playoffs are the most interesting part to me.

Especially when you get a contrast in teams like Nalyd and I had in our series last year.

(Even if I should have blown them out! )

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01-02-2013, 10:20 AM
  #213
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In which way could we put more importance to the regular season, while keeping every teams in the playoffs?

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01-02-2013, 10:23 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
In which way could we put more importance to the regular season, while keeping every teams in the playoffs?
More importance? Top-3 seeds always win the divisions!!!! That is so regular season ranking heavy! If anything, we should downplay or re-consider team values after regular season rankings.

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01-02-2013, 10:37 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
More importance? Top-3 seeds always win the divisions!!!! That is so regular season ranking heavy! If anything, we should downplay or re-consider team values after regular season rankings.
We already had this discussion with NP before. There's just so much we can do with a drafts 'on paper'. It's obvious with our format the limitation of having 'surprise' winners. How would you suggest changing the drafts to have more low seed winners?

And I still believe the Dionne's & Esposito's are getting the shaft way too much during the playoffs, unless they became, for the time of one draft, the flavor of the month.

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01-02-2013, 10:55 AM
  #216
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
I still believe the Dionne's & Esposito's are getting the shaft way too much during the playoffs,...
Ah,.. that's your point. Well, non-cup winners have won the ATD, like top-6 forwards: Oates (twice), Kariya, Bondra, Ratelle, D. Savard, Stastny, Tkachuk, Martinec, Turgeon, Lafontaine. So Dionne is more the exception than the rule... but Espo? Why do you clump those two together?

BTW, Claude Lemieux has never won the ATD (nor has Mario for that matter).

I don't see your idea: Dionne and Espo are the kind of players getting shafted in the playoffs because people supposedly weigh the regular season too lightly? I just don't see it. If there's a bias it sure doesn't seem to be toward playoff acumen. Patrick Roy hasn't won the ATD yet, nor has Yzerman or Beliveau!


Last edited by VanIslander: 01-02-2013 at 11:00 AM.
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01-02-2013, 11:20 AM
  #217
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Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Ah,.. that's your point. Well, non-cup winners have won the ATD, like top-6 forwards: Oates (twice), Kariya, Bondra, Ratelle, D. Savard, Stastny, Tkachuk, Martinec, Turgeon, Lafontaine. So Dionne is more the exception than the rule... but Espo? Why do you clump those two together?
I'm obviously talking about Tony Esposito, not Phil. And for sure after 8 drafts you'll definitely have some underwhelming playoff performer winning the ATD, but they will rarely be important pieces. For example, It's feels so wrong to see someone like Sergei Fedorov getting picked time and time again over Marcel Dionne because one is considered a playoff performer & the other one not. But maybe you're right & I'm exaggerating the situation. What do others think?

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01-02-2013, 11:28 AM
  #218
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
I'm obviously talking about Tony Esposito, not Phil. And for sure after 8 drafts you'll definitely have some underwhelming playoff performer winning the ATD, but they will rarely be important pieces. For example, It's feels so wrong to see someone like Sergei Fedorov getting picked time and time again over Marcel Dionne because one is considered a playoff performer & the other one not. But maybe you're right & I'm exaggerating the situation. What do others think?
Whole-heartedly agree.

Gilmour over Stastny and Perreault yearly is another one.

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01-02-2013, 11:36 AM
  #219
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Whole-heartedly agree.

Gilmour over Stastny and Perreault yearly is another one.
Playoff performance is obviously an important aspect of a players career, and should be a difference maker with players of the same caliber, but to return to my previous example: playoff or not, I would prefer Marcel Dionne as my franchise centre over Sergei Fedorov 10 time out of 10. In all honesty, I also been fraudulent of such travesty. I thought having some team missing the playoffs would put more value with these players, but any ideas are welcome at this point.

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01-02-2013, 11:36 AM
  #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
I'm obviously talking about Tony Esposito, not Phil. And for sure after 8 drafts you'll definitely have some underwhelming playoff performer winning the ATD, but they will rarely be important pieces. For example, It's feels so wrong to see someone like Sergei Fedorov getting picked time and time again over Marcel Dionne because one is considered a playoff performer & the other one not. But maybe you're right & I'm exaggerating the situation. What do others think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Whole-heartedly agree.

Gilmour over Stastny and Perreault yearly is another one.

Those are somewhat apples and oranges, though.

I do favour guys who come up big when things are on the line, but you also have to keep in mind the premium everyone seems to put on defensive play too.

Fedorov and Gilmour fit the current ATD mold of defense defense defense. (Outside the eventual winner last year of course).

So Feds and Gilmour really have two pluses in their column.

People just need to think outside the box a bit more and allow more variety through their voting.

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01-02-2013, 11:47 AM
  #221
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Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
Those are somewhat apples and oranges, though.

I do favour guys who come up big when things are on the line, but you also have to keep in mind the premium everyone seems to put on defensive play too.

Fedorov and Gilmour fit the current ATD mold of defense defense defense. (Outside the eventual winner last year of course).

So Feds and Gilmour really have two pluses in their column.

People just need to think outside the box a bit more and allow more variety through their voting.
That's actually a very good point. I wholeheartedly agree with your last sentence, although we've got to admit that it is so hard to do so.

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01-02-2013, 01:02 PM
  #222
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Maybe in the voting process, the voters explain why in a short description as to why they believe "X" team can defeat "Y" team in a seven-game series, and include key parts to series. Adds a little more validity to the determination of who wins, and not just picking the team that instantly looks better on paper.

I'm all for finding any way to make the voting process any better.

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01-02-2013, 06:05 PM
  #223
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anybody against the idea of having public vote and argumentation to back up every vote you make?

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01-02-2013, 06:06 PM
  #224
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anybody against the idea of having public vote and argumentation to back up every vote you make?
I don't think anyone should have to publicly divulge their vote - think of all the lobbying and bickering that would cause!

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01-02-2013, 06:15 PM
  #225
VanIslander
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Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
Maybe in the voting process, the voters explain why in a short description as to why they believe "X" team can defeat "Y" team in a seven-game series, and include key parts to series. Adds a little more validity to the determination of who wins, and not just picking the team that instantly looks better on paper.
Excellent idea! Everyone submit via PM the one sentence justification with their vote and then the vote collector can ANONYMOUSLY post the comments in a quick easily arranged description of what voters think, minus names attached.

It would get voters thinking more about their vote and provide a richer experience when results are posted in having descriptions.

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