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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Owner-Player meeting only, no Bettman or Fehr (UPD: 12/4 in NYC)

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Old
11-30-2012, 03:30 PM
  #176
Dream Big
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Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
I believe Fehr and Bettman declined to receive any salary during the lockout. Even if they did give back their massive $11.5 millions "to the fans". The league attendance last year was 21.4 million. That's a massive 50 cents off per ticket. What a great gesture.
Curious. Do you know if the NHL lawyers Rose and Prosauer declined to receive any fees during the lockout?

Or is their fee based on the outcome or billable hours? If billable hours I hate to say this but my advise to NHL may be influenced by how it impacts their fees receivable.

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11-30-2012, 03:33 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
OK then, let's cut 4 to 6 teams and lose 100 to 150 jobs if that's what the players prefer...
The issue with this is that the loudest and most (or only) media covered players don't really care about losing 100-150 player positions. They're talented enough to survive any cut in player numbers.

Which only furthers the fact that this has never been about the "players" as a whole, and certainly not the bottom 20-30%.

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11-30-2012, 03:36 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by FakeKidPoker View Post
@JoshYohe_Trib

Consensus from players: They don't care if Bettman is around or not. They do care if Jacobs and same old owners are present at next meeting.
Looks like the players are pretty well informed afterall.

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Old
11-30-2012, 03:36 PM
  #179
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bettman is a smart man. these businessmen will brutally take advantage of the braindead players. great move by bettsy

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Old
11-30-2012, 03:40 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by KPower View Post
This was done before if I'm not mistaken.

In 1954 maybe.

Hahaha.

Nice try Gary .
Sort of I think in 1956. Ted Lindsay was the player who had the balls to convince the others to form a union, secret meetings and all to get it done but they did hire lawyers who helped them and were involved in talks. Of course the owners from back then were bigger scum bags (actual crooks not just cheap with creative accounting like today's owners). The players did get some concessions out of it, they weren't enough but at least Lindsay got the PA formed which later on forced the NHL to disclose more financial info which then improved player conditions and was partly the reason for the league expanding in '67 so today's players can thank Lindsay and Carl Brewer and co for their pensions and 30 team league.

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Originally Posted by SidTheKid8787 View Post
I like Shane Doan's idea of bringing GM's into the mix. Those are the true hockey minds.
He would because most GM's would prefer the players to get more because it gives them more flexibility and makes their job easier. This next CBA if it contains some of the contract terms the NHL is demanding is gonna cause a problem for GM's. Of course there are some NHL puppets like Burke who'd want even more restrictions. Also wow that Haggerty guy wasn't exaggerating about Jacobs, the players really don't seem to like him based on what some of them are saying lol

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Old
11-30-2012, 03:44 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
They don't have the fat TV contract and never will.
I disagree. There are so many stations out there battling for content, if the NHL could get its **** together they could cash in. Hockey could be as exciting as any sport if the league would focus on the product, make it as good as possible. Instead they cater to the archaic thinking of traditionalists and dumb the game down to the lowest common denominator. Sports fans want action and stats, the NHL gives them grinding game that takes a lot of the skill out of it. I'm a huge hockey fan but even I have a hard time getting into games that I'm not invested in, I don't think it has to be that way. The game could be more exciting if that's what the NHL decided was important.

How about a fantasy game for hockey? I watch a lot of football, most of the time I'm watching players on my fantasy team. The NHL has an opportunity to create a fantasy hockey game geared around creating national viewership, instead they've ignored it completely.

The NFL gives fans what they want, the NHL doesn't seem to give a crap what the product looks like.

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11-30-2012, 03:54 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
I disagree. There are so many stations out there battling for content, if the NHL could get its **** together they could cash in. Hockey could be as exciting as any sport if the league would focus on the product, make it as good as possible. Instead they cater to the archaic thinking of traditionalists and dumb the game down to the lowest common denominator. Sports fans want action and stats, the NHL gives them grinding game that takes a lot of the skill out of it. I'm a huge hockey fan but even I have a hard time getting into games that I'm not invested in, I don't think it has to be that way. The game could be more exciting if that's what the NHL decided was important.

How about a fantasy game for hockey? I watch a lot of football, most of the time I'm watching players on my fantasy team. The NHL has an opportunity to create a fantasy hockey game geared around creating national viewership, instead they've ignored it completely.

The NFL gives fans what they want, the NHL doesn't seem to give a crap what the product looks like.
Fantasy hockey does't work nearly as well as it does in the case of football.

The NFL schedule is perfection when it comes to fantasy sports because they only play once a week. That's why there are 8 billion NFL fantasy leagues and not nearly as many for hockey, basketball etc.

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11-30-2012, 03:56 PM
  #183
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I'm not really sure Chipman deserves the sole "family" tag. In reality he took the experience of working with his father's car dealerships and built it into a separate leasing company, National Leasing, and then sold that to a bank. While the family businesses are certainly intertwined with his own successes, he is rocket-surgeon sharp and would have succeeded at whatever endeavor he chose. That is why David Thomson initially partnered with him, because he is so good at what he does.
I think the hardest thing for an entrepreneur to do is get seed capital and time to make things work for the start-up venture. You also need to a good network into the business world and more capital or connections. Someone from a humble background has to build all that on their own. Chipman had a good base, but we can give him credit for doing more.

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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
This is an excellent point that was kind of lost in the shuffle this morning.

The PA has a catch-22 to deal with if they intend to argue in court that they don't want to be represented by Fehr anymore.

No, you misunderstand the Disclaim of Interest. The PA isn't saying it doesn't want Fehr to represent them, but that it doesn't want union representation. If they aren't unionized, there is no collective bargaining process. The courts may rule that it's a ploy, but if there is no PA office, who answers the phone? Furthermore, if they follow through with decertification itself, then they cannot reconvene for 1 yr at the earliest. Courts cannot force employees to form unions.

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11-30-2012, 04:08 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
So 3 teams making 83% of the total revenues means that this league is healthy and should continue on the same economic basis ?

The system doesn't work and most players are making at least 50% too much money.

NHL cannot compete against MLB, NFL and NBA. Bettman & cie are dreaming. They don't have the fat TV contract and never will.

If they finally cancel this season overall, thre at least 4 to 6 teams that will fold or be sold before next September.
It's not 83% of total revenue, it's 83% of total operating income. Big difference

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11-30-2012, 04:10 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
I think the hardest thing for an entrepreneur to do is get seed capital and time to make things work for the start-up venture. You also need to a good network into the business world and more capital or connections. Someone from a humble background has to build all that on their own. Chipman had a good base, but we can give him credit for doing more.




No, you misunderstand the Disclaim of Interest. The PA isn't saying it doesn't want Fehr to represent them, but that it doesn't want union representation. If they aren't unionized, there is no collective bargaining process. The courts may rule that it's a ploy, but if there is no PA office, who answers the phone? Furthermore, if they follow through with decertification itself, then they cannot reconvene for 1 yr at the earliest. Courts cannot force employees to form unions.
Was this the case in the NFL and NBA?

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Old
11-30-2012, 04:10 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by CarlWinslow View Post
Fantasy hockey does't work nearly as well as it does in the case of football.

The NFL schedule is perfection when it comes to fantasy sports because they only play once a week. That's why there are 8 billion NFL fantasy leagues and not nearly as many for hockey, basketball etc.
The same game the NFL uses doesn't work for hockey, the league needs to invest in creating something that does work. Ignoring it all together is a terrible business decision.

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Old
11-30-2012, 04:11 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
No, you misunderstand the Disclaim of Interest. The PA isn't saying it doesn't want Fehr to represent them, but that it doesn't want union representation. If they aren't unionized, there is no collective bargaining process. The courts may rule that it's a ploy, but if there is no PA office, who answers the phone? Furthermore, if they follow through with decertification itself, then they cannot reconvene for 1 yr at the earliest. Courts cannot force employees to form unions.
I thought a Disclaimer of Interest was more like Fehr and PA saying they don't want to represent the players anymore? That way they can avoid the courts ruling that it's a ploy on the players part.

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Old
11-30-2012, 04:16 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
I disagree. There are so many stations out there battling for content, if the NHL could get its **** together they could cash in. Hockey could be as exciting as any sport if the league would focus on the product, make it as good as possible. Instead they cater to the archaic thinking of traditionalists and dumb the game down to the lowest common denominator. Sports fans want action and stats, the NHL gives them grinding game that takes a lot of the skill out of it. I'm a huge hockey fan but even I have a hard time getting into games that I'm not invested in, I don't think it has to be that way. The game could be more exciting if that's what the NHL decided was important.

How about a fantasy game for hockey? I watch a lot of football, most of the time I'm watching players on my fantasy team. The NHL has an opportunity to create a fantasy hockey game geared around creating national viewership, instead they've ignored it completely.

The NFL gives fans what they want, the NHL doesn't seem to give a crap what the product looks like.
Yup. When hockey becomes a premiere entertainment draw in North America, then the players should be able to demand premiere dollars. But it isn't yet and they already are.

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Old
11-30-2012, 04:20 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
I disagree. There are so many stations out there battling for content, if the NHL could get its **** together they could cash in. Hockey could be as exciting as any sport if the league would focus on the product, make it as good as possible. Instead they cater to the archaic thinking of traditionalists and dumb the game down to the lowest common denominator. Sports fans want action and stats, the NHL gives them grinding game that takes a lot of the skill out of it. I'm a huge hockey fan but even I have a hard time getting into games that I'm not invested in, I don't think it has to be that way. The game could be more exciting if that's what the NHL decided was important.

How about a fantasy game for hockey? I watch a lot of football, most of the time I'm watching players on my fantasy team. The NHL has an opportunity to create a fantasy hockey game geared ar creating national viewership, instead they've ignored it completely.

The NFL gives fans what they want, the NHL doesn't seem to give a crap what the product looks like.
Never gonna happen. American networks will always pick the other leagues over the NHL so any offer made will be made with the fact that the NHL would be plan D on any given network.

A big TV deal requires American networks and only way they get involved is if American viewers increase to a point that has never been seen and in all likelihood never will.

There is a reason why ESPN offered such a bad deal to the NHL. American broadcasting companies treat hockey like its some obscure sport and thus offer terrible TV contracts.

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Old
11-30-2012, 04:34 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by WinterEmpire View Post
I thought a Disclaimer of Interest was more like Fehr and PA saying they don't want to represent the players anymore? That way they can avoid the courts ruling that it's a ploy on the players part.
pretty much. although, it has nothing to do with fehr personally...just the union. disclaimer is when the union disclaims its interest in representing the bargaining unit (although, it will generally follow after a deauthorization vote by the unit members).

Jets players take latest idea pitched by NHL in stride

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/spo...181580411.html

Quote:
"It could be a good idea," said Andrew Ladd today. "There always seems to be a catch with every idea the owners have. But if it’s something where we could get all 30 owners in the same room with representatives from each team and talk, just so they know where we’re sitting and where everybody stands then, yeah, it could be positive.
"But only if it’s done in the right way. If it’s still the same guys from their end talking... if it’s (Boston Bruins’ owner) Jeremy Jacobs in there spewing his stuff, I don’t think it’s going to move this process forward."

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11-30-2012, 04:34 PM
  #191
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Never gonna happen. American networks will always pick the other leagues over the NHL so any offer made will be made with the fact that the NHL would be plan D on any given network.

A big TV deal requires American networks and only way they get involved is if American viewers increase to a point that has never been seen and in all likelihood never will.

There is a reason why ESPN offered such a bad deal to the NHL. American broadcasting companies treat hockey like its some obscure sport and thus offer terrible TV contracts.
Right now that's what it is but I refuse to believe it has to be that way. I'm a huge hockey fan and I have a hard time with the product the NHL puts out, it doesn't surprise me at all that it's a side show as far as American sports go. Give the fans something worth watching and they'll tune in.

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11-30-2012, 04:40 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by WinterEmpire View Post
I thought a Disclaimer of Interest was more like Fehr and PA saying they don't want to represent the players anymore? That way they can avoid the courts ruling that it's a ploy on the players part.

That sounds right.

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11-30-2012, 04:40 PM
  #193
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It could help broker a deal, give it a try boys, the other two can't seem to get it done...

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11-30-2012, 04:45 PM
  #194
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The most sensible two tweets I've seen since this whole sorry mess began, from Henrik Lundqvist.

Henrik Lundqvist @HLundqvist30
If the plan is to have meetings between players and owners to solve this mess, maybe it's time to...

...allow teams that actually are carrying the league finacially to get involved. So far I have not seen any invitations to the meeting room.

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11-30-2012, 04:48 PM
  #195
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The most sensible two tweets I've seen since this whole sorry mess began, from Henrik Lundqvist.

Henrik Lundqvist @HLundqvist30
If the plan is to have meetings between players and owners to solve this mess, maybe it's time to...

...allow teams that actually are carrying the league finacially to get involved. So far I have not seen any invitations to the meeting room.
I'm confused by this quote. Is he saying he should have been invited to a meeting earlier, or that he should be invited to the proposed meeting because the Rangers deserve representation? What about if the PA wants Ranger players other than him to be there?

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11-30-2012, 04:51 PM
  #196
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Bettman should be fired immediately for even suggesting this... and Fehr should be fired if he accepts.

There is a reason these two are making the gobs of money they are making... They are the negotiators.

There is a deal to be made here, so do the job you are being paid to do and lets play some hockey.

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11-30-2012, 04:53 PM
  #197
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What he's saying is that the owners of the teams that are carrying the league (Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, NYR) should be at the table instead of owners such as Boston, Minnesota, and Calgary. In other words, the owners that are actually carrying the league because of their team profits should be in the room rather than being ruled by a cheap tyrant out of Boston.

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11-30-2012, 04:56 PM
  #198
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What he's saying is that the owners of the teams that are carrying the league (Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, NYR) should be at the table instead of owners such as Boston, Minnesota, and Calgary. In other words, the owners that are actually carrying the league because of their team profits should be in the room rather than being ruled by a cheap tyrant out of Boston.
OK, what's that got to do with Lundqvist not seeing an invitation to meetings?

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11-30-2012, 04:58 PM
  #199
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Bettman should be fired immediately for even suggesting this... and Fehr should be fired if he accepts.

There is a reason these two are making the gobs of money they are making... They are the negotiators.

There is a deal to be made here, so do the job you are being paid to do and lets play some hockey.
Neither side is making money until a deal is made. IF this is how it has to get done, so be it.

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11-30-2012, 05:01 PM
  #200
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Maybe not the exact quote, but he did say time and again that the last system was needed to ensure all teams remained viable.

That the system would be better for the fans (lol, that one is still funny)

That the system addresses the economic issues that the weaker teams were suffering from.

He failed on all three counts and is hardlining now because he needs to save face and finally try to get the owners what he failed to get them in 1994 and 2005.
This system is better for the fans. And it did address economic issues. Just not enough.

I find it odd that everyone seems to think that because the last CBA didn't fix everything all at once, that it's considered a failure. Why is that?

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