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Old
11-30-2012, 01:21 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Holy crap, guess I never realized how overrated Schneider is around here. Schneider will return something similar to what Halak got, not an established top player.
Overrated in trade value? Yes. Overrated in actual talent/skill? I don't think so.

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Old
11-30-2012, 02:09 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Co Ho View Post
Where's Sharp's Selke and 40 goal season?
in his mind


Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Holy crap, guess I never realized how overrated Schneider is around here. Schneider will return something similar to what Halak got, not an established top player.
Maybe we're compensating for the sever underrating of Luongo?

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Old
11-30-2012, 02:21 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Co Ho View Post
Where's Sharp's Selke and 40 goal season?
Sharp is BY FAR the better goal scorer.

Sharp last 5 seasons = 154goals in 371games = 0.415goals/game
Kesler last 5 seasons = 135goals in 403games = 0.335goals/game


..and Kesler didn't deserve his Selke.

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Old
11-30-2012, 02:22 PM
  #29
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So Chicago doesn't want to trade a key piece for one of our goalies? Great, no deal then. There is nothing, and not even a package, that would interest me, or most of our fans, that doesn't involve Toews, Kane, Keith or Sharp. I'd be looking at Hossa, Seabrook or Bolland+ for Luongo as well.

We've been down this road, we're not giving a rival a piece that would turn a weakness into a strength without something equal reversing a weakness here. If that won't be returned, then let's shake hands, walk away before this gets out of control, and see each other in the playoffs again.

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Old
11-30-2012, 02:26 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Sharp is BY FAR the better goal scorer.

Sharp last 5 seasons = 154goals in 371games = 0.415goals/game
Kesler last 5 seasons = 135goals in 403games = 0.335goals/game


..and Kesler didn't deserve his Selke.
IIRC, Sharp plays with significantly better line-mates. I love both players, but I would personally take Kesler.

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Old
11-30-2012, 02:30 PM
  #31
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(Kesler is better than Sharp).

Sharp is more valuable than Schneider. Have to imagine it'll be only 'Nuck fans disagreeing.

Bad trade for Chicago.

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Old
11-30-2012, 02:32 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
..and Kesler didn't deserve his Selke.
Meh, the Selke is basically a reputation award. Kesler didn't deserve the Selke in 2011 (although his subsequent work in the playoffs was stellar - on both side of the puck - until his injury), but his reputation as a top flight defensive player is well-deserved.

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Old
11-30-2012, 02:34 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Sharp is BY FAR the better goal scorer.

Sharp last 5 seasons = 154goals in 371games = 0.415goals/game
Kesler last 5 seasons = 135goals in 403games = 0.335goals/game


..and Kesler didn't deserve his Selke.
Who just happens to play with better line mates.... Surely this can't help him.

I'm sure you'll bring up Kesler playing with the Sedins on the PP but surely you knew that Kesler was the driving force behind the power play & in 2009 was on the 2nd unit who was actually producing more then the Sedin unit & thats when Kesler was flanked by Raymond. Kesler is the real force behind Vancouver's PP

He didn't deserve the Selke in your opinion? Cool story! I'll trust the Professional Hockey Writers' Association ... you know guys who actually get paid for their opinions on hockey!


Last edited by Scottrockztheworld*: 11-30-2012 at 02:44 PM.
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Old
11-30-2012, 02:41 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
(Kesler is better than Sharp).

Sharp is more valuable than Schneider. Have to imagine it'll be only 'Nuck fans disagreeing.

Bad trade for Chicago.
As a Canucks fan I agree.

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Old
11-30-2012, 02:51 PM
  #35
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not long enough track record on Schneider to give up Sharp. A risk taker might make this move, but I wouldn't do that until Schneider is a stud for longer. Of course by that time his value would be past Sharp, but that's the risk/reward of this trade in my eyes.

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Old
11-30-2012, 02:53 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
(Kesler is better than Sharp).

Sharp is more valuable than Schneider. Have to imagine it'll be only 'Nuck fans disagreeing.

Bad trade for Chicago.
I agree, but I still wouldn't trade Schneider for Sharp.

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Old
11-30-2012, 03:12 PM
  #37
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I don't know how many times it needs to be said that our top 4 forwards or our 2 defenseman will not available for nothing short of an overpayment. If this is not acceptable to you, then please keep your goalies. The Hawks are not a bubble team that needs an upgrade in goal to make the playoffs, so we are certainly not going to meet your lofty expectations of an appropriate return for one of your goalies.

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Old
11-30-2012, 03:26 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I agree, but I still wouldn't trade Schneider for Sharp.
Meh, you know your team better than I do. But with Sharp at RW with the Sedins and Burrows with Kesler, you 1. Have the best first line in the NHL and 2. Finally give Kesler a legitimate scoring threat to play with all year long.

That is of course course only good if we are operating under the assumption that Luongo will continue to put up good numbers for the Canucks despite the trade request and all that. And I think he would be fine, but again, you know your team better than I do so I'm probably missing something, maybe related to Schneider.

Ah, well. None of this can happen right now anyway.

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Old
11-30-2012, 03:45 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Kesler-lite? HA.
Kesler is like Sharp-lite.
That's a pretty homeristic view. I doubt you'll find many (any?) impartial fans who agree with you. Kesler has a much more complete game, has demonstrated to be better offensively, and is widely considered to be better defensively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Sharp is BY FAR the better goal scorer.

Sharp last 5 seasons = 154goals in 371games = 0.415goals/game
Kesler last 5 seasons = 135goals in 403games = 0.335goals/game


..and Kesler didn't deserve his Selke.
5 seasons ago, Kesler was 23, playing in a defensive role against tough matchups, starting shifts in the defensive zone, and playin over 3 minutes a night short handed.

5 seasons ago, Sharp was 26, leading the Blackhawks in ice time/game and getting over 3 minutes per game on the power play.

If you can't understand the affects that might have on those players' goal totals, you really aren't in a position to say "Sharp is a better goal scorer because.."

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Old
11-30-2012, 03:50 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Co Ho View Post
Where's Sharp's Selke and 40 goal season?
Thats like me saying Brodeur is currently better than Quick for the sole fact Brodeur has more Stanley Cups and Vezinas. His Selke is of course an achievement but you can't use that to state he's better.

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Old
11-30-2012, 04:05 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by hlaverty06 View Post
Thats like me saying Brodeur is currently better than Quick for the sole fact Brodeur has more Stanley Cups and Vezinas. His Selke is of course an achievement but you can't use that to state he's better.
Except these accomplishments are within a couple of years so your analogy fails. We all know Brodeur is not the same goalie he use to be.

Kesler is a better player than Sharp. But Chicago would be stupid to trade Sharp for Schneider...and visa versa for that matter.

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Old
11-30-2012, 04:11 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by hlaverty06 View Post
Thats like me saying Brodeur is currently better than Quick for the sole fact Brodeur has more Stanley Cups and Vezinas. His Selke is of course an achievement but you can't use that to state he's better.
Stanley Cup is a team award, Selke is individualized.
Kesler recently won the Selke.
Both players are relatively similar age and shoot first (comparable players).

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Old
11-30-2012, 04:20 PM
  #43
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Curious, what was the biggest return for a goalie in the last decade? The last big ones I remember are Varly and Halak. It just doesn't seem common that teams fork over a Patrick Sharp level guy for a goalie, no matter how promising he is. Tenders are so unpredictable that you're better off just developing your own or trading for cheaper ones with potential and hoping for the best.

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Old
11-30-2012, 04:20 PM
  #44
hlaverty06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Co Ho View Post
Stanley Cup is a team award, Selke is individualized.
Kesler recently won the Selke.
Both players are relatively similar age and shoot first (comparable players).
And then whats the Vezina?

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Old
11-30-2012, 04:32 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
Curious, what was the biggest return for a goalie in the last decade? The last big ones I remember are Varly and Halak. It just doesn't seem common that teams fork over a Patrick Sharp level guy for a goalie, no matter how promising he is. Tenders are so unpredictable that you're better off just developing your own or trading for cheaper ones with potential and hoping for the best.
Well, last year, Varly was for a 1st + 2nd in the off-season from a team that finished bottom 2 the year before...a lot of people would say that was a pretty valuable package.

A soon to be UFA Luongo was traded basically for Todd Bertuzzi (scraps on either side) in the off-season of 2006.

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Old
11-30-2012, 04:33 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by hlaverty06 View Post
And then whats the Vezina?

If Brodeur won the Vezina in the last few years and Quick didn't win the Conn Smythe, and they were similar ages, then I would say your analogy works.

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Old
11-30-2012, 04:35 PM
  #47
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If Brodeur won the Vezina in the last few years and Quick didn't win the Conn Smythe, and they were similar ages, then I would say your analogy works.
I'm just saying you conveniently omitted the one that pertains to an individuals effort. The Selke argument just doesnt work. Yes it was won in the last few years but Kesler didn't even break 50 points last year.

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Old
11-30-2012, 04:47 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by hlaverty06 View Post
Thats like me saying Brodeur is currently better than Quick for the sole fact Brodeur has more Stanley Cups and Vezinas. His Selke is of course an achievement but you can't use that to state he's better.
Pretty much.

Sharp > Kesler for me when factoring in injury concerns. Kesler is burning out very quickly due to his playing style. Sharp is putting up better numbers as he ages since he's a much more skilled perimeter player.

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Old
11-30-2012, 05:00 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by hlaverty06 View Post
I'm just saying you conveniently omitted the one that pertains to an individuals effort. The Selke argument just doesnt work. Yes it was won in the last few years but Kesler didn't even break 50 points last year.
haha what have you done for me lately attitude

Kesler was recovering from a surgery last year and also played half a year with a torn labrum. These are facts.

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Old
11-30-2012, 05:11 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by hlaverty06 View Post
I'm just saying you conveniently omitted the one that pertains to an individuals effort. The Selke argument just doesnt work. Yes it was won in the last few years but Kesler didn't even break 50 points last year.
I omitted it because in my original post, I mentioned age being a factor that allows for a better comparison and Brodeur is much older and won most his awards when he was in his prime, at a younger age. Kesler was also injured and missed part of last season.

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