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Old
11-30-2012, 06:26 PM
  #51
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Kesler is great defensively, but his offensive game is ridiculously overrated. He's had one season which he scored 40 goals but all other years he's managed at most 26... Sharp is a much more consistant goal scorer and in the past 2 seasons is almost a ppg player. Plus, Sharp doesn't dive every shift. I'd rather have Sharp on my team.

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Old
11-30-2012, 06:31 PM
  #52
Vankiller Whale
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Meh, you know your team better than I do. But with Sharp at RW with the Sedins and Burrows with Kesler, you 1. Have the best first line in the NHL and 2. Finally give Kesler a legitimate scoring threat to play with all year long.

That is of course course only good if we are operating under the assumption that Luongo will continue to put up good numbers for the Canucks despite the trade request and all that. And I think he would be fine, but again, you know your team better than I do so I'm probably missing something, maybe related to Schneider.

Ah, well. None of this can happen right now anyway.
Simply put, I don't want the team to go into cup or bust mode. We have enough players on the wrong side of 30 as is, and if we did deal Schneider, I'd want it to be for a similarly unproven player with high potential(ex Gardiner, Couturier).

I want our team to be a constant competitor(and Gillis has the same philosophy), and trading Schneider for an established vet is a move in the opposite direction for us supposedly getting younger.

As a side thing, I thought Sharp only plays LW and C, does he play RW as well?

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11-30-2012, 06:34 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by jgoud View Post
Kesler is great defensively, but his offensive game is ridiculously overrated. He's had one season which he scored 40 goals but all other years he's managed at most 26... Sharp is a much more consistant goal scorer and in the past 2 seasons is almost a ppg player. Plus, Sharp doesn't dive every shift. I'd rather have Sharp on my team.
I'll make a correction. Kesler is exceptional defensively and just very good offensively. He's a 30G 60pt defensive freak of nature. his 40g season was definitely a break-out year and perhaps he'll never hit that total again; But I feel like Kesler is in his prime and will be a consistent 30G scorer for the next 3 seasons.

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Old
11-30-2012, 06:42 PM
  #54
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People do realize Sharp is one of the best defensive forwards in hockey? Kesler is great when he's not getting blown over by a gust of wind, but he's only marginally better than Sharp.

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Old
11-30-2012, 07:19 PM
  #55
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People do realize Sharp is one of the best defensive forwards in hockey? Kesler is great when he's not getting blown over by a gust of wind, but he's only marginally better than Sharp.
I don't think they do... He finished 10th in Selke voting last year (2nd for wingers).

As for the proposed trade, Schneider just doesn't hold that kind of value. I think Vankiller Whale got it right when he said he'd go for a high potential unproven guy....Though I'm really not sure why Gardiner gets so much more love than Leddy around here.

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Old
11-30-2012, 07:48 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by TurdFerguson View Post
I don't think they do... He finished 10th in Selke voting last year (2nd for wingers).

As for the proposed trade, Schneider just doesn't hold that kind of value. I think Vankiller Whale got it right when he said he'd go for a high potential unproven guy....Though I'm really not sure why Gardiner gets so much more love than Leddy around here.
Now that you mention it, I wouldn't want Gardiner back either. Leddy is a fine comparable, but I'd rather look for another piece.

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Old
11-30-2012, 07:54 PM
  #57
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Where's Sharp's Selke and 40 goal season?
To be fair Sharp had the better year last year and it took Datsyuk getting injured to derail his Selke reign.

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11-30-2012, 08:01 PM
  #58
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To be fair Sharp had the better year last year and it took Datsyuk getting injured to derail his Selke reign.
I hope he had the better yet, Kesler was out or playing injured for nearly all of it. Kesler may have been better at a more opportune time, but he still won an award more then Sharp in that regard. It's like saying Giroux is better then Toews because Toews was better at a certain period to win a Conn Smythe and Stanley cup (not single handedly obviously). The fact is Toews still has the Conn Smythe, and no amount of "oh, he just had it given to him because his team won the cup" argument can discredit that.

At the end of the day, the number of Selkes owned by Kesler is one, and Sharp is none. Sharp is a great player, but you can't honestly make an objective argument for Sharp being a better defensive player. Offensively, yes, you may have something, but I'd still like to see Kesler playing with Toews, Kane, Hossa and the rest of the Blackhawks forwards, versus Booth, Raymond, Samuelsson, Higgins and PP with the Sedins.

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Old
11-30-2012, 08:09 PM
  #59
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I'll make a correction. Kesler is exceptional defensively and just very good offensively. He's a 30G 60pt defensive freak of nature. his 40g season was definitely a break-out year and perhaps he'll never hit that total again; But I feel like Kesler is in his prime and will be a consistent 30G scorer for the next 3 seasons.
Don't treat him like a God. He's had one 30+ goal season so it's not fair to call him a 30G scorer

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11-30-2012, 08:23 PM
  #60
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They are both great players but Kesler is definitely better when firing on all cylinders. Sharp is probably more consistent though.

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11-30-2012, 08:25 PM
  #61
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Don't treat him like a God. He's had one 30+ goal season so it's not fair to call him a 30G scorer
HF Boards: Where a 30 goal season is considered God-like.

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Old
11-30-2012, 08:57 PM
  #62
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Uh.
Make it Schneider for Sharp straight up and I'm in. Both teams get better. Chicago assumes a bit more risk but certainly stands a better chance of winning the deal based on the age and position of each player. Vancouver can survive with Lu just fine, and Booth-Kesler-Sharp would be awesome.

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11-30-2012, 09:27 PM
  #63
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Don't treat him like a God. He's had one 30+ goal season so it's not fair to call him a 30G scorer

Kesler has 114 goals in the last 4 years for an average of 28.5 goals. That also includes an injury plagued season last year. By all accounts Kesler is in his prime and continuing to trend upwards. I think it's more than fair to say he's a 30G scorer.

These stats sure do suggest i'm treating him like a god, don't they?

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Old
11-30-2012, 09:41 PM
  #64
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Well, last year, Varly was for a 1st + 2nd in the off-season from a team that finished bottom 2 the year before...a lot of people would say that was a pretty valuable package.

A soon to be UFA Luongo was traded basically for Todd Bertuzzi (scraps on either side) in the off-season of 2006.
Allen was looking to be a solid top 4 defender at the time too, and Bertuzzi was still a first line player (coming off a 70 pt season).

So RFA Luongo for a first line power forward and a low end top 4 defender (plus scraps).

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Old
11-30-2012, 10:34 PM
  #65
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28.5 isn't 30 just saying...

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11-30-2012, 10:42 PM
  #66
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28.5 isn't 30 just saying...


I can get you some more if needed.

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11-30-2012, 10:46 PM
  #67
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Wouldn't do it if I were Chicago. I'd rather have Sharp and gamble on Crawford than just have Schneider. Doesn't leave the Blackhawks with much in the Top-6 anymore either.

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11-30-2012, 11:03 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by hlaverty06 View Post
28.5 isn't 30 just saying...
ZOMG the technicalities!

Should we go around calling him a 28.5 goal scorer then?


I like how this thread is more about the Kes vs Sharp then it is the ACTUAL reason the thread was made. Got to love HF where everything is a contest.

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11-30-2012, 11:06 PM
  #69
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Hell no from the Canucks.
bingo.

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Old
11-30-2012, 11:06 PM
  #70
hlaverty06
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Yes in my mind Kesler is nothing more than a 28.5 goal scorer hhehe

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Old
11-30-2012, 11:07 PM
  #71
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Stopped reading when I saw "sharp would be on our 2nd line"

Nice try OP but a swing and a miss for the Trade Section yet again

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Old
11-30-2012, 11:18 PM
  #72
Vankiller Whale
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Stopped reading when I saw "sharp would be on our 2nd line"

Nice try OP but a swing and a miss for the Trade Section yet again
Except he would be. If we added any player(Kovalchuk, Perry, you name it) he'd be on our 2nd line. Our biggest need is to increase the lethality of our 2nd line. We're not going to just stick all our best players on one line.

But obviously calling Sharp a second line player could be perceived as a misnomer.

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Old
11-30-2012, 11:31 PM
  #73
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Curious, what was the biggest return for a goalie in the last decade? The last big ones I remember are Varly and Halak. It just doesn't seem common that teams fork over a Patrick Sharp level guy for a goalie, no matter how promising he is. Tenders are so unpredictable that you're better off just developing your own or trading for cheaper ones with potential and hoping for the best.
Roberto Luongo, Lukas Krajicek (3rd pair dman), and a 6th round pick for Bryan Allen (26-year-old 2nd pair dman), Todd Bertuzzi (31-year-old 1st line Power Forward), Alex Auld (Low-end starting goaltender)

I would probably break that down to Luongo for Allen + Bertuzzi and Krajicek + 6th for Auld.

Modern day equivalent would be Carey Price for Nick Leddy and Patrick Sharp (or insert young 2nd pair Dman + ~30-year-old top line forward from other team). Roberto Luongo had a tremendous body of work when he was traded back in 2006, Schneider doesn't have that.

Schneider would be more inline with Jaroslav Halak (as mentioned) in that he's been great, but has a limited resume. The Canucks won't trade him because they wouldn't get the value they want for him and Luongo has already expressed interest in moving out of town.


Last edited by n00bxQb: 11-30-2012 at 11:41 PM.
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Old
11-30-2012, 11:39 PM
  #74
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Except he would be. If we added any player(Kovalchuk, Perry, you name it) he'd be on our 2nd line. Our biggest need is to increase the lethality of our 2nd line. We're not going to just stick all our best players on one line.

But obviously calling Sharp a second line player could be perceived as a misnomer.
This. Burrows has proven chemistry with the Sedins, we won't disrupt that. What we need is a 1st line RW to play on our 2nd line.

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Old
12-01-2012, 12:29 AM
  #75
Chris Hansen
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
ZOMG the technicalities!

Should we go around calling him a 28.5 goal scorer then?


I like how this thread is more about the Kes vs Sharp then it is the ACTUAL reason the thread was made. Got to love HF where everything is a contest.
Ugh, agreed. You have no idea how many times I've been "called out" for similar reasons.

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