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2012 CBA/Lockout talk, Part the Fifth

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12-04-2012, 12:04 PM
  #226
bp13
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Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
You're exactly right, except for the bolded and I have little doubt that is true of all major sports franchise owners. Not many are willing to take a loss in order to give their fanbase a championship, and when they do it's likely because they've made enough money to cover it the years previous.

It is completely unlike the players current position however because with Jacobs and every other owner looking out for themselves, they are in turn making the league as a whole more profitable. If an owner can make money at this more owners will be interested. If the NHL as a whole can profit more the game grows.

Were the players to get what they wanted, the league in turn would suffer. They have every right to look out for themselves and with short career expectancies why shouldn't they only look out for the immediate future. Yes that's exactly what owners do, but to completely different ends. It doesn't matter if both are ridiculously selfish in seeking what they are seeking in this CBA, only one being so makes the NHL a stronger league.
Yeah, you're right. I'm not arguing with you on these points.

I am simply arguing that anyone who defends JJ as though his interest is league-wide solvency and profit for all owners above all else is delusional. He doesn't care if the rising tide floats all boats, he cares if it floats HIS boat.

And sure, profit for owners ensures league success. That's Business 101. And again, JJ is smart enough to know the league needs to be an attractive investment to exist, and since he makes millions off its existence, he needs that. But there seems to be this suggestion that he's in there fighting for the little guy. That he has some vision for the league that puts everyone in a better spot, players and owners alike. That's complete BS. He pissed all over the little guys in Boston for 25 years until he couldn't sustain that model, and he'd still be pissing all over them today if he could. Let's not forget that for a second.

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12-04-2012, 12:07 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by BlueChip01 View Post
You are right. All I know is that even though it is a dumb GM there or here being desperate, the PA and agents have never missed a chance to put the screws to any one of them to get the most money out of them.

They have squeezed too much out of them and now hopefully the owners get a system in place where both sides prosper and is more "idiot proof" which is pretty much what needs to happen.
I would like to point out, ironically, that that was exactly their intent in the last lockout. Moreover, it's exactly what they claimed they had won as a result of that last lockout.

To the players it's probably starting to read like the 'Millionaires Who Cried Wolf'.

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12-04-2012, 12:10 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by bp13 View Post
Yeah, you're right. I'm not arguing with you on these points.

I am simply arguing that anyone who defends JJ as though his interest is league-wide solvency and profit for all owners above all else is delusional. He doesn't care if the rising tide floats all boats, he cares if it floats HIS boat.

And sure, profit for owners ensures league success. That's Business 101. And again, JJ is smart enough to know the league needs to be an attractive investment to exist, and since he makes millions off its existence, he needs that. But there seems to be this suggestion that he's in there fighting for the little guy. that he has a vision for the league that puts everyone in a better spot, players and owners alike. That's complete BS. He pissed all over the little guys in Boston for 25 years until he couldn't sustain that model, and he'd still be pissing all over them today if he could. Let's not forget that for a second.
Sorry if it came across that way, not at all my intention. I'm incredibly cynical and automatically assume everyone is out for themselves anyway, especially when it comes to millionaires and billionaires and that includes Jacobs/Crosby/Bettman/etc etc... I think it's especially obvious in the case of this lockout that both sides are ridiculously greedy and fighting imo solely over the financials.

As the NHL is really my one vice (aside from all my other vices) I've tried to form my opinion based around who getting their way is a greater benefit to the NHL.

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12-04-2012, 12:10 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by JMiller View Post
WBC I love reading your posts, but I think you're suffering from a little stocholm syndrom with JJ at this point- he's kept us hostage so long you're starting to feel for the guy. He's Mr Burns, not Geroge Bailey.
Hahaha.....He did suck...he's made up for it....I understand more as an adult about his way of doing things then I did as a teen....I don't need him to give a flying **** about me...or whether the Phoenix Coyotes make money.... I just need him to give the people that know how to build a team the financial resources to do that...

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12-04-2012, 12:19 PM
  #230
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Renaud Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
Gary Bettman and Jeremy Jacobs just arrived at the same hotel where players are meeting right now. A NHL meeting starting soon.



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12-04-2012, 12:31 PM
  #231
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To NY Rangers Fan: How We Feel About Our Owner

Your thread was closed because a moderator wants all CBA talk contained in this space.

As to your question, a cursory view of these posts should inform that many Bruins fans are just fine with Mr. Jacobs. Others, like me, loathe him with a passion. Always have, always will.

Whatever the facts of his involvement in the current CBA mess, Jeremy Jacobs remains far and away the most hated man in Boston sports. No one else comes close.

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12-04-2012, 12:32 PM
  #232
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Listen, I understand that this is a business and that in order for the NHL to be successful, owning and NHL franchise has to be a lucrative endeavor. I also don't favor the players 100% either, and I don't think it would be best for the league to cave in completely to one side or the other. There needs to some compromise.

All that aside, I do not think losing an entire NHL season is what's best for the league either. So, whatever JJ and the owners want, they should be trying to find some sort of compromise or middle ground with the players. A lot of the issues that the owners want resolved are issues the owners brought upon themselves. You can whine about the player friendly deals done in years past, but the owners signed off on those too. The owners have given out ridiculous contracts and the owners have put teams in non viable markets. And furthermore, some of the owners don't want to fund the teams in those non-viable markets. Whose fault is that? If he cared so much about the game and the league, he wouldn't be flushing an entire season down the toilet.

Kraft was able to be a mediator for the NFL and still get a deal done that was beneficial to both sides. JJ can do the same.

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12-04-2012, 12:34 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by bp13 View Post
I would like to point out, ironically, that that was exactly their intent in the last lockout. Moreover, it's exactly what they claimed they had won as a result of that last lockout.

To the players it's probably starting to read like the 'Millionaires Who Cried Wolf'.
In the end, who cares? Does every CBA become perfect for 100 years? They have said it can be better with tweaking. It doesn't matter the mindset was last time. It is a different climate this time.

Are they not allowed to try to fix it because they "thought it was perfect last time"?

If everything is going well. there shouldn't be a lockout. I know the players will say , "well who says next time you guys won't just ask for more?"

This is not the ted Lindsay era. The players are spoiled athletes. They should strike a deal, watch out for themselves, and move on. Don't give us this BS about doing it for the later guys.

THEY WILL GET THEIR MONEY TOO..

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12-04-2012, 12:36 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by BlueChip01 View Post
In the end, who cares? Does every CBA become perfect for 100 years? They have said it can be better with tweaking. It doesn't matter the mindset was last time. It is a different climate this time.

Are they not allowed to try to fix it because they "thought it was perfect last time"?
No, but it shows that the owners getting what they want is not guarnateed to be what is best for the game, or even for the owners.

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12-04-2012, 12:38 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by BlueChip01 View Post
In the end, who cares? Does every CBA become perfect for 100 years? They have said it can be better with tweaking. It doesn't matter the mindset was last time. It is a different climate this time.

Are they not allowed to try to fix it because they "thought it was perfect last time"?

If everything is going well. there shouldn't be a lockout. I know the players will say , "well who says next time you guys won't just ask for more?"

This is not the ted Lindsay era. The players are spoiled athletes. They should strike a deal, watch out for themselves, and move on. Don't give us this BS about doing it for the later guys.

THEY WILL GET THEIR MONEY TOO..
Could not agree more. Just like when Recchi said to cut a deal and get back out there, because they will always find a way to pay the players more. You will get your money.

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12-04-2012, 12:50 PM
  #236
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from the Globe (fwiw):


Steve Burton and a shot at an NHL scoop

Well, I think we're probably in unanimous agreement around here that we hope Channel 4's Steve Burton is correct and, spurred by a secret meeting Monday, the NHL lockout could end in the next couple of days. The winter doesn't feel right absent the best hockey has to offer.

But the lingering question is this: Since no one with stronger established ties to the NHL is corroborating what Burton said on the Monday's 10 p.m. newscast -- and some are shooting it down -- is there a snowball's chance in Phoenix of the report proving wholly accurate?


http://www.boston.com/sports/touchin...ve_burton.html

hope to hell his 'source' isnt Lenny Clarke.

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12-04-2012, 12:53 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Gee Wally View Post
from the Globe (fwiw):


Steve Burton and a shot at an NHL scoop

Well, I think we're probably in unanimous agreement around here that we hope Channel 4's Steve Burton is correct and, spurred by a secret meeting Monday, the NHL lockout could end in the next couple of days. The winter doesn't feel right absent the best hockey has to offer.

But the lingering question is this: Since no one with stronger established ties to the NHL is corroborating what Burton said on the Monday's 10 p.m. newscast -- and some are shooting it down -- is there a snowball's chance in Phoenix of the report proving wholly accurate?


http://www.boston.com/sports/touchin...ve_burton.html

hope to hell his 'source' isnt Lenny Clarke.
I hope Burton's right so we get some hockey back and and all the 'insiders' missed the boat on this one.

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12-04-2012, 12:53 PM
  #238
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... even though the average NHL salary again increases nearly $1 million due to the success of the last CBA.
I hear ya, hard for me and Mrs. Odaat to have any sympathy/understanding towards either side. With me being in University, our earnings are about 40,000/yearly before tax.

Need not be a math prodigy to understand that isn't much to live on, both the players, and the owners, can kiss me arse as my friends in Newfoundland say

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12-04-2012, 12:54 PM
  #239
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I thought this was an excellent piece about the Burton report, and the general attitude of the hockey community. http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Ty-An...ours/141/47783

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12-04-2012, 12:58 PM
  #240
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What boggles my mind is why the players would ever think cancelling a season is a good idea.

Are the owners being a-holes? Sure

Is business about being fair? Nope.

The players say they have short careers. Go make as much as you can in that span. You might get a freak injury over the summer and ruin your career somehow. Anything can happen.

The later guys will always get paid as well. They are not going to make a few hundred grand a year and go back to the early 90's...

Take care of yourselves and strike the best deal you can.

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12-04-2012, 01:04 PM
  #241
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Wiggy on the Sports hub also claims to have sources that it's almost over.

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12-04-2012, 01:11 PM
  #242
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Wiggy on the Sports hub also claims to have sources that it's almost over.
Is it bad that this made me laugh?

I hope to hell he's right, but "Wiggy says" is just funny.

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12-04-2012, 01:13 PM
  #243
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What boggles my mind is why the players would ever think cancelling a season is a good idea.

Are the owners being a-holes? Sure

Is business about being fair? Nope.

The players say they have short careers. Go make as much as you can in that span. You might get a freak injury over the summer and ruin your career somehow. Anything can happen.

The later guys will always get paid as well. They are not going to make a few hundred grand a year and go back to the early 90's...

Take care of yourselves and strike the best deal you can.
Have any players ever said canceling the season is a good idea?

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12-04-2012, 01:24 PM
  #244
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Wiggy on the Sports hub also claims to have sources that it's almost over.

Pardon my ignorance, but who the heck is Wiggy?

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12-04-2012, 01:32 PM
  #245
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Have any players ever said canceling the season is a good idea?
Yes. They have said they are ready to wait this out even if it means the season gone.

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12-04-2012, 01:33 PM
  #246
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Pardon my ignorance, but who the heck is Wiggy?
Jermaine Wiggins. He's on the Felger & Mazz Show on Tuesdays, used to play for the Patriots. From East Boston.

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12-04-2012, 01:34 PM
  #247
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Pardon my ignorance, but who the heck is Wiggy?
lol

After I hit submit, I thought about that. Then I got busy.


He is Jermaine Wiggins. Former NFL player who has guest spots on the Sports hub. Take it with a grain of salt, but he's pretty convinced.

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12-04-2012, 01:34 PM
  #248
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Yes. They have said they are ready to wait this out even if it means the season gone.
There is a big difference between that and calling it a "good idea."

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12-04-2012, 01:55 PM
  #249
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Is it bad that this made me laugh?

I hope to hell he's right, but "Wiggy says" is just funny.
It's not bad at all Kate, I'm howling at my desk right now! Wiggy is awesome. But if 'Wiggy' is right and the NHL lockout is almost over and McKenzie and Dreger don't know it, then my head is going to explode.

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12-04-2012, 02:09 PM
  #250
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Whatever the facts of his involvement in the current CBA mess, Jeremy Jacobs remains far and away the most hated man in Boston sports. No one else comes close.
I would say Larry Lucchino is not too far behind. Bobby Valentine was villain #1 during his brief time here.

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