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News from Around the League - Part XXXV - I'll see you in court!

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Old
12-07-2012, 03:46 PM
  #501
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I was thinking about this today, and I'm wondering if Fehr's strategy is that Bettman and Daly will break before the players, since many players are collecting paychecks elsewhere while Bettman and Daly are not.

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12-07-2012, 03:50 PM
  #502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apice3 View Post
I was thinking about this today, and I'm wondering if Fehr's strategy is that Bettman and Daly will break before the players, since many players are collecting paychecks elsewhere while Bettman and Daly are not.
Not sure if you're serious on this. Bettman and Daly have made so much money over the last decade plus, I don't think they'll be destitute if they go a year without taking salary (I'm not even sure if Daly's going without pay, I know Gary is). By that standard, Don will be struggling since he's not taking salary either so that's pretty much a sum-zero tradeoff.

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Originally Posted by apice3 View Post
Bob McKenzie just tweeted that there are 89 players on 5 year contracts. Of those 89, over half are on 6-7 yr deals retained by the original team.

That brings us to around 40 players that this 5 year clause effects. If you eliminate the would-be-illegal backdiving contracts, it would be even fewer.

If the last CBA had this v5 year contract limit (7 yr for retaining FA's), only appoximately 30 players would be effected out of around 700 players. That's 4% of the league.

And that's a huge ****ing joke. Unacceptable that this is the dealbreaker.
The funny thing is as Bettman himself pointed out, there was 'one' contract that went over five years at the time of the last lockout. So they could have probably snuck a contract limit in then and nobody would have cared. But doing it now after 90+ have been handed out is what's causing the uproar.

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12-07-2012, 03:52 PM
  #503
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Counter point, and this is something that I've seen brought up a few times today.

When a Crosby or Ovechkin or any type of franchise players comes up for contract and they want $X, they're going to get $X

$X might be less than it once was in light of a new CBA, but that X is still going to be a **** ton of money relative to the rest of the league.

By shaving off the ability to bring a star player's cap down, you're hogging up the cap space for your third and fourth line role players.


I hate backdiving contracts, even Kovy's, and I'd love to see them wiped out.
Just an interesting point.

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12-07-2012, 03:58 PM
  #504
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Originally Posted by MartyOwns View Post
wheres the no spin zone on these forums?
No where, as far as I can tell.

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12-07-2012, 04:00 PM
  #505
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/09/13/garys-game/

There's a lot of other good stuff there too, especially the behind-scenes maneuvering of the first lockout, but those were just the two main anecdotes that stood out. And don't forget, Goodenow is a Fehr disciple.
Read Gatehouse's book "The Instigator", it's a very easy read and kind of brings to life how hard Bettman pushes for the W when his back is against the wall.

It neither tries to humanize nor villainize him. It's a pretty interesting look at the landscape of the nhl, and it's timeline since he's stepped in and exactly where he fits into hockey history.

It's not the best written book, but it's easy to read and there are tons of interesting anecdotes.

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12-07-2012, 04:26 PM
  #506
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Originally Posted by The Point Man View Post
Just watched Bettman's presser, and I have to say I have never seen him like that before. He seems actually pissed and frustrated down to the level of we fans are feeling. Don't get me wrong, I am the furthest from being a supporter of his, but him actually showing that kind of emotion was pretty neat to see.
It's not an act that Bettman's putting on, but I don't view his finally showing some emotion as a positive. This looks like a man who planned to have the lockout continue this long, but now finds that it might get out of his control and extend beyond what he planned for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by apice3 View Post
I was thinking about this today, and I'm wondering if Fehr's strategy is that Bettman and Daly will break before the players, since many players are collecting paychecks elsewhere while Bettman and Daly are not.
If they really think this, they're going to lose. Bettman and Daly are not struggling to feed their families during this.

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12-07-2012, 04:54 PM
  #507
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What it boils down to is a series of battles:

The Owners vs The Players

Owners in good markets vs owners in bad markets

Star players vs all the other players

The owners in bad markets can hold out longer than the ones in good markets since they already lose money - they probably lose even more money by playing a season.

The star players can hold out forever since they made tons of $ and can go anywhere in the world and still make tons of $.

The real battle is the wealthy owners who lose money by not playing a season and the crap players who will make peanuts by not playing.

The thing is the wealthy owners are going to be losing tens of millions each while the crap players get taken care of by the union, play in the AHL, and can still sign in other leagues.

The NHLPA can hold out much longer as long as the majority of the guys (the ones that aren't stars) understand their role - they won't make **** if the allstars don't get paid since the all-stars really drive the market and the league.

The NHL has tried to undo the NHLPA but time is not on their side, the NHLPA knows this. The fact that the NHL tried to shove another CBA down the NHLPA's throats was what started this whole mess. Let's not forget who locked out whom. The NHLers agreed to play under the current CBA until a new one was signed - but the owners signed a bunch of pre-lockout bonus deals and then turned around and said **** A DUCK.

Pretty ballsy move by Bettman and the poor owners but they're going to get ****ed hardest in the end because Fehr has his ducks all lined in a row. These players are not going to buckle.

I applaud the NHLPA for having backbone and I want then to stick it to the NHL. **** the league and their ********. I'm happy with the AHL and KHL.

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Old
12-07-2012, 05:08 PM
  #508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
It's not an act that Bettman's putting on, but I don't view his finally showing some emotion as a positive. This looks like a man who planned to have the lockout continue this long, but now finds that it might get out of his control and extend beyond what he planned for.
That's a possibility too, that Bettman is not just negotiating for his legacy but his job. The guys on HNIC even made reference to John Collins (the NHL's COO who is rumored to be angry enough to resign) as the 'Damocles' that hangs over Bettman's head.

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12-07-2012, 05:13 PM
  #509
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I think Bettman wants hockey back, but will settle for a lockout if he doesn't get his way.

I think the players all want hockey back, and half would take what's on the table now, but half will settle for a lockout if they don't get their way.

I don't think Fehr wants hockey at all.

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12-07-2012, 05:39 PM
  #510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apice3 View Post
I think Bettman wants hockey back, but will settle for a lockout if he doesn't get his way.
I'm all for that as well.

We've already lost 1/3 of the season, at this point, I'd rather have no hockey for a year than another financially destructive deal that leads us down this exact same path 5 or 7 years from now.

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12-07-2012, 05:49 PM
  #511
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Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
I wish I could sign a guaranteed 8 year contract with IBM or Pfizer.

I'd turn in exemplary financial analysis for about 2 years, then pull a Randy Moss and eat cheeseburgers during staff meetings with my feet up on the desk playing Angry Birds.
Classic quote right there.

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12-07-2012, 06:05 PM
  #512
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Also on owners "treating players like cattle" with a short time for players to make money. Why is this the owners responsibility? Is it their fault the game is hard and players break down? Is it their fault a stray puck could end their career? Why should they overpay them for the players security. They are basically made to give money away.

If the players are that worried about playing a sport with short life spans maybe they should quit and play golf instead. The players who whinge about this act as if the owners implemented land(ice) mines and bayonets on sticks for the NHL compared to their junior hockey.

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12-07-2012, 07:07 PM
  #513
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So no progress. So surprised....

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12-07-2012, 07:16 PM
  #514
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^ Is that Casey Jones?

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12-07-2012, 07:42 PM
  #515
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Drivin that train, Fehr is insane.

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12-07-2012, 07:55 PM
  #516
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I LOVE that argument, "Lockout not strike trollololololololol"

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12-07-2012, 08:13 PM
  #517
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Fans should take control of the arenas and talks.

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12-07-2012, 08:21 PM
  #518
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so are they getting any closer

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12-07-2012, 09:21 PM
  #519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parise9Crosby87 View Post
so are they getting any closer
no talks through the weekend, but i'd say there's a better chance now than there was before these few days of talks. the nhl can say their offer is off the table all they want but they wouldn't have offered it if they didn't like it and the nhlpa can build off of it whenever they meet.

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12-07-2012, 09:38 PM
  #520
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so are they getting any closer
They agree they arent meeting or coming to an agreement right now.

That counts.

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12-07-2012, 09:56 PM
  #521
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The PA says they're close, the league says they're not close at all. Status quo.

Doesn't matter how close or not they are, this is coming down to the last minute either way. The only thing left that might speed up the timetable is disclaimer of interest in court, which the players have next to zero chance of winning.

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12-07-2012, 10:03 PM
  #522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
The PA says they're close, the league says they're not close at all. Status quo.

Doesn't matter how close or not they are, this is coming down to the last minute either way. The only thing left that might speed up the timetable is disclaimer of interest in court, which the players have next to zero chance of winning.
come in the middle and say they're almost there? haha. but i think that every time they break up, the next time they come back even closer to a deal. i think they have a month left roughly and that should be enough. hopefully.

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12-07-2012, 11:24 PM
  #523
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Can't say a nice rant from Barch on twitter wouldn't make me happy right now. Scotty and others who tweeted at him obviously got through to him cause ever snce then he's been off twitter.

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12-07-2012, 11:31 PM
  #524
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They're definitely close. NHL says they're not to avoid mediation, because mediators at this point would probably say something along the lines of "meet in the middle" which would be 3/4s of the way towards the NHLPA side since the last time considering the NHL's current offer was pretty much the original midway point.

I was on the players side day 1, and every passing day has brought me closer to the owners side. I'm now on board with the owners 100%. They've come very far from the original offer while the PA hasn't budged. That's not negotiating. That's holding the fans hostage.

It's a shame because I believe a good portion of the players truly do want a fair deal. But those players are overshadowed by morons like Toews and Upshall who are so vocally pessimistic that it's sickening.

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12-07-2012, 11:57 PM
  #525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apice3 View Post
I was on the players side day 1, and every passing day has brought me closer to the owners side. I'm now on board with the owners 100%. They've come very far from the original offer while the PA hasn't budged. That's not negotiating. That's holding the fans hostage.
SEE: every Union "negotiation" ever.

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