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News from Around the League - Part XXXV - I'll see you in court!

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Old
12-14-2012, 10:28 PM
  #801
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The NHL never wanted to negotiate over the summer because there wouldn't be any pressure on the PA with no actual lockout. The PA was never gonna agree to make all the concessions when there were no games at stake. They'd end up right where they are right now barring some sort of Grinch-esque change of heart from either side.

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12-14-2012, 11:41 PM
  #802
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the only optimism is: nothing is stopping them from meeting. and i think both sides would want to avoid going to court.

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12-14-2012, 11:54 PM
  #803
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Yeah in retrospect it's pretty good that they didn't play under the old CBA because the players would have pulled a 1994 MLB and gone on strike midway through. That would have been awful.

I'd rather have no season than the first half a season with no playoffs.

But I'd rather have a second half of a season + playoffs than no season.

End this garbage.

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12-15-2012, 12:03 AM
  #804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggers View Post
The NHL never wanted to negotiate over the summer because there wouldn't be any pressure on the PA with no actual lockout. The PA was never gonna agree to make all the concessions when there were no games at stake.
Not sure if serious?

Because you have it perfectly backwards, but I'm thinking you're joking and that's the point?

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12-15-2012, 12:17 AM
  #805
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LOL Jackass#94 was back posting on the main board, and doing some Devils trolling in the ''Kovalchuk most underrated player'' thread.

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12-15-2012, 01:12 AM
  #806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggers View Post
The NHL never wanted to negotiate over the summer because there wouldn't be any pressure on the PA with no actual lockout. The PA was never gonna agree to make all the concessions when there were no games at stake. They'd end up right where they are right now barring some sort of Grinch-esque change of heart from either side.
You know the NHL wanted to negotiate but the PA didn't even have their team together til the end of the season right? And the PA had 1 actual offer before the deadline ended I think, and it was a joke one at that.

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12-15-2012, 05:55 AM
  #807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartyOwns View Post
link?

and the nhlpa was willing to start training camp, start season with a temp cba, etc. the league didn't want that. the owners were having a work stoppage until December, regardless. it was their plan
That NHLPA offer to play while negotiating was not a serious offer. They knew the league would never allow them to play without a CBA, because it would give the players so much leverage for no reason. So they made the offer to make it look good, because they knew before it was made that it would never be accepted.

Yes, the league probably did plan to have a lockout regardless, but that doesn't make the players' offer to play without a CBA any more genuine.

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12-15-2012, 08:54 AM
  #808
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Rob Rossi ‏@RobRossi_Trib
FWIW: Heard from labor expert I trust immensely. He said Friday developments 'should clear path for serious talks' btwn #NHL #nhlpa

Interesting but at this point I'll believe it when its done.

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12-15-2012, 10:20 AM
  #809
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I've heard that one before. There are serious talks, and then the serious talks break down, and then there is serious silence.

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12-15-2012, 10:32 AM
  #810
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At this point, I'm all for cancelling the season if it will help get the NHL's financial health in order.

This league cant go on being a league that exists because they have about 20 rich guys who view team ownership as a toy, and dont mind losing millions of dollars (either in present $s or future opportunity-cost $s).

The Washington Capitals actually made money last year, a measly $1M, off a top-line of $106M. lol. Are you friggin' serious? And they were one of the "fortunate" ones. Nearly half the league lost money.

And it's only going to get worse. Someone needs to mathematically inform these self-important players who day in and day out are told they're the center of the universe, that this aint the NFL. I get the general sense that that would likely be a healthy message for most inhabitants of Ontario as well.

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12-15-2012, 11:09 AM
  #811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
At this point, I'm all for cancelling the season if it will help get the NHL's financial health in order.

This league cant go on being a league that exists because they have about 20 rich guys who view team ownership as a toy, and dont mind losing millions of dollars (either in present $s or future opportunity-cost $s).

The Washington Capitals actually made money last year, a measly $1M, off a top-line of $106M. lol. Are you friggin' serious? And they were one of the "fortunate" ones. Nearly half the league lost money.

And it's only going to get worse. Someone needs to mathematically inform these self-important players who day in and day out are told they're the center of the universe, that this aint the NFL. I get the general sense that that would likely be a healthy message for most inhabitants of Ontario as well.
Amen.

Don't always agree but I'm in agreement by each line item this time.

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12-15-2012, 11:13 AM
  #812
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Obama gives his thoughts:

Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Barack Obama is urging the NHL and the players' association to "do right by your fans" and find a solution to the league's lockout.

Obama says in an interview with WCCO-TV in Minneapolis that as president, he shouldn't have to get involved in a sports lockout. He says owners and players "make a lot of money and you make a lot of money on the backs of the fans, so do right by your fans."

Representatives from both sides met with a federal mediator Thursday but didn't make any noticeable progress. The two sides appear no closer to a deal to save the season.

Obama says both sides "can figure out how to spread out a bunch of revenue" and should do right by the people who support them.

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12-15-2012, 12:27 PM
  #813
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If this is following the NBA script they are about 2 months behind. That is because the NHL CBA expired 2 months later than the NBAs. The NBA lockout wiped out about 2 months of games, we are at about 3 months going into month 4.

Had the CBA expired in June there would have been more pressure to get a deal done as there would be a large portion of players without contracts. As is most guys are signed already

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12-15-2012, 12:53 PM
  #814
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkrdevil View Post
If this is following the NBA script they are about 2 months behind. That is because the NHL CBA expired 2 months later than the NBAs. The NBA lockout wiped out about 2 months of games, we are at about 3 months going into month 4.

Had the CBA expired in June there would have been more pressure to get a deal done as there would be a large portion of players without contracts. As is most guys are signed already
And that's why I said the other day players and owners both wanted the CBA to expire later in the summer. Players don't want the pressure of not having deals at all while owners get the benefit of signing contracts that they knew would be outlawed under a new CBA, and not having to pay full value of contracts with declining HRR.

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12-15-2012, 12:58 PM
  #815
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And the other shoe's dropping now...

Quote:
John Shannon ‏@JSportsnet
NHLPA will begin voting tomorrow to give Exec Board authority to file a disclaimer of interest. Players will vote for 5 days via internet.

John Shannon ‏@JSportsnet
NHLPA Exec Board requires a positive vote of 2/3rds of the members to be able to act, and then has until Jan 2/13 to file notification.

John Shannon ‏@JSportsnet
If anyone is doubting the support the players are giving Donald Fehr, the results of this vote will be telling. #NHLPA

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12-15-2012, 03:12 PM
  #816
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This won't get solved til a drop dead date gets closer. It's pretty darn obvious that Fehr is just holding out til the 11th hour to sign a deal.

Problem for the players is I don't think it's going to be good enough to be worth it. But they will definitely take it then because the alternative is another lost year. Good work union.

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12-15-2012, 03:42 PM
  #817
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We'll see what comes of this player voting. The fractures in the union's united front might reveal themselves.

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12-15-2012, 06:34 PM
  #818
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Can someone briefly explain what happens if they do or don't decertify in as simple terms as possible? What's better for a season to take place?

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12-15-2012, 07:02 PM
  #819
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apice3 View Post
Can someone briefly explain what happens if they do or don't decertify in as simple terms as possible? What's better for a season to take place?
If it ever actually gets to the court's consider the season toast.

When the NHLPA votes to decert/disclaimer. If that vote passes they don't actually have to file the paper work until January 2nd.

IMHO That is the DROP DEAD date for negotiations.

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12-15-2012, 08:53 PM
  #820
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey Man View Post
Rob Rossi ‏@RobRossi_Trib
FWIW: Heard from labor expert I trust immensely. He said Friday developments 'should clear path for serious talks' btwn #NHL #nhlpa

Interesting but at this point I'll believe it when its done.
The bad blood between NHLPA/NHL (Dating all the way back too downfall of Eagleson and revealing of his relationship with Wirtz , etc) is why this wont get done

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12-15-2012, 08:58 PM
  #821
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I'm still 55/45 that this doesn't go to court, but seriously 55 percent is not overly confident at all.

If this does go to court however, I think it might go awhile, and I really think next season or at least part of next season could be in jeopardy. This could go awhile if it goes to court. Maybe the union won't get 2/3rds of a vote. I am not confident to think they will vote against it, but maybe a little faith it might fall just under 66 percent of the vote.

If they vote no though does this mean they take the deal? If they don't get the 66 percent vote? Or just go back, and try to give another proposal?

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12-15-2012, 08:59 PM
  #822
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If this goes to court system

Next season IMO is gone ,, This fight could drag on for years

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12-15-2012, 09:02 PM
  #823
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I think I'm 55-45 the other way at this point. A part of me still thinks they can't drive off the cliff, they have too much to lose but I just can't trust the people in charge to be rational anymore.

I've feared all along Fehr's objective was not to get a deal but to try and win a deal and leverage in court even if it destroys the league, and nothing he's done to this point has convinced me any different. Maybe if the owners weren't such greedy **icks and gave the players a 'couple' of concessions this wouldn't be happening, or the PA'd look a lot worse holding out for next to nothing than they even do already...but we'll never know cause they are.

This is one of the few pieces I've seen that gets on both sides just about equally, and like Blackhawks said this is bad blood that goes back decades.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-l...ion_cba_talks/

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12-15-2012, 09:07 PM
  #824
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I'll check that link out later, but I don't know I don't trust Fehr at all. Seems like he'd pull some **** even if the owners gave the concessions. I could see him saying ''Alright we accept the CBA length, and contract rules'' and the owners saying sounds good just sign, but Fehr turns around and says ''Nope now we want more in this make whole'' or some crap like that. Dudes a gamer, and a real ballbuster at that.

I still think this CBA length, and contract stuff might not be the big deal to him. And that's why people say the sides won't lose a season over something that stupid. I think maybe he's the one making things stupid by playing these games.

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12-15-2012, 09:10 PM
  #825
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i dont think either side wants it to go to court. the only thing they really care about is money and if it goes to court they get less money. sure the lockout is costing them money but owners are getting more and more things every time an offer is on the table and there still hasn't been a deal.

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