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News from Around the League - Part XXXV - I'll see you in court!

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Old
12-15-2012, 09:16 PM
  #826
BenedictGomez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
If this goes to court system

Next season IMO is gone ,, This fight could drag on for years
That will never happen. Financial suicide for the players.

It would be the equivalent of burning down your own home in protest, because you're upset with the town's garbage collection schedule.

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12-15-2012, 09:23 PM
  #827
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
If this goes to court system

Next season IMO is gone ,, This fight could drag on for years
no it won't lol

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Old
12-15-2012, 09:28 PM
  #828
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Originally Posted by goalvalchuk17 View Post
i dont think either side wants it to go to court. the only thing they really care about is money and if it goes to court they get less money. sure the lockout is costing them money but owners are getting more and more things every time an offer is on the table and there still hasn't been a deal.
I keep seeing that...but imo both sides (well the NHL and Fehr, to be more precise) are arrogant enough to think well they'll win in court so let's go for it. Not to mention they hate the other side enough to want to engage in total destruction.

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12-15-2012, 09:31 PM
  #829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
I keep seeing that...but imo both sides (well the NHL and Fehr, to be more precise) are arrogant enough to think well they'll win in court so let's go for it. Not to mention they hate the other side enough to want to engage in total destruction.
sigh, just gotta hope they're smart enough to realize that even if they win they will lose millions and millions of dollars by the time the court's decision comes and they are close enough that it's so unnecessary to go to court. i think it's just a threat, honestly. bettman knows fehr by now and this may scare him.

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Old
12-15-2012, 10:09 PM
  #830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
That will never happen. Financial suicide for the players.

It would be the equivalent of burning down your own home in protest, because you're upset with the town's garbage collection schedule.
This is pretty much what NHLPA is doing now throwing away the $$$ from this year that they will never get back and if it goes to court risking everything (And throwing away the $$$ for next year)

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12-15-2012, 10:33 PM
  #831
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How can anyone say next season is gone? What on Earth can anyone know about the intentions of both sides to go that far with a prediction?

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12-15-2012, 10:49 PM
  #832
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They're wasting money but most of all valuable TIME. These guys can't play forever and some of the veterans who don't have much left in the tank (like Marty, for instance) get extremely hurt by this. Careers can go by very quickly, instead of embracing what they have, they're sitting at home or playing in lesser leagues.

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12-15-2012, 11:29 PM
  #833
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apice3 View Post
How can anyone say next season is gone? What on Earth can anyone know about the intentions of both sides to go that far with a prediction?
They can't. Its just a prediction and a projection, just like everything else.

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Old
12-15-2012, 11:35 PM
  #834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apice3 View Post
How can anyone say next season is gone? What on Earth can anyone know about the intentions of both sides to go that far with a prediction?
how can anyone say the world is gonna end? lol

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Old
12-16-2012, 08:49 AM
  #835
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The Owners really need to call it quits on all this.. The fact is that they've gotten the players to concede on almost every issue, the players have only really "gained" on one thing and that was the Make Whole, which is kind of a joke because that was money the owners contractually committed to the players shortly before crying poor (ie Parise and Suter)

The NHLPA really cant be the first the budge here because they need to set the precedent that the Owners can't just play hardball and wait for the players to cave to their demands in future negotiations.. The players have already shown that this lockout is about more than just their immediate best interests, its partially about getting a good deal for future players.. Part of that is setting the tone for the future that the Owners cannot strong-arm them into giving up and taking their deal..

The Owners need to take what they've got this time around and revisit this in several years.. The Players simply cannot lay down for the Owners right now, as much as we fans would like someone to give up so we can watch hockey

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12-16-2012, 08:52 AM
  #836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin226 View Post
The Owners really need to call it quits on all this.. The fact is that they've gotten the players to concede on almost every issue, the players have only really "gained" on one thing and that was the Make Whole, which is kind of a joke because that was money the owners contractually committed to the players shortly before crying poor (ie Parise and Suter)

The NHLPA really cant be the first the budge here because they need to set the precedent that the Owners can't just play hardball and wait for the players to cave to their demands in future negotiations.. The players have already shown that this lockout is about more than just their immediate best interests, its partially about getting a good deal for future players.. Part of that is setting the tone for the future that the Owners cannot strong-arm them into giving up and taking their deal..

The Owners need to take what they've got this time around and revisit this in several years.. The Players simply cannot lay down for the Owners right now, as much as we fans would like someone to give up so we can watch hockey
The owners are not going to cave on the contract length issue.

The reason is simple: they really believe that they have to have this change made to end the kind of contracts we've seen. No more Weber getting stolen away by Philadelphia with a borderline unmatchable RFA contract.

Additionally, this is something - if it is the last sticking point - they will eventually win on, because the total number of players who benefit from those contracts is a small, small fraction of the players union as a whole.

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Old
12-16-2012, 09:41 AM
  #837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Classic Devil View Post
The owners are not going to cave on the contract length issue.

The reason is simple: they really believe that they have to have this change made to end the kind of contracts we've seen. No more Weber getting stolen away by Philadelphia with a borderline unmatchable RFA contract.

Additionally, this is something - if it is the last sticking point - they will eventually win on, because the total number of players who benefit from those contracts is a small, small fraction of the players union as a whole.
I thought they want 5-7 and the players asked for 8.. Is that really so terrible to live with for the next 7 years?

But even so, I think you have to agree that the players can't accept this last offer from the Owners.. It simply hurts their bargaining strength in future negotiations by saying to the Owners "You can strong arm us and if you hold you, you'll get what you want".. The Players can't set that precedent, previous generations held out to give them what they have and they know they need to pay it forward

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Old
12-16-2012, 09:56 AM
  #838
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A) When have the players 'ever' given in on a linked 50-50? They've had delinked proposal crap until their most recent proposal which didn't even discuss HRR or 'transition'.
B) The players made out like bandits on every CBA, it's not like they've been bullied for twenty years. I'm supposed to feel sorry for them because they need to give back in this one and won't do it? All the owners are asking 'now' is to fall in line with what other major sports (specifically the NBA) have.
C) Nobody's absolving the owners of anything, but they're not asking for the players to be indentured servants here. If they were still on the 57-43 the other way, or wanted non-guaranteed contracts, or abolishing no-trade clauses then I'd say yeah at least it's a principled stand, but most of the stuff they're fighting in 'principle' over is nonsense.

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12-16-2012, 10:10 AM
  #839
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That is far from the last sticking point. I believe Fehr just asked for a guaranteed cap number and escrow limits. Changing the goalposts one more time.

But we knew he was just trying to drag this out to the drop dead date anyway. Hope he doesn't misplay that and ends up canceling the season becaus eI can see that happening.

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12-16-2012, 10:13 AM
  #840
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Yeah, a $67.25 cap number AND make whole is really the players giving back lol. More of Fehr's fuzzy math.

Both sides are just as obstinate, just as greedy. That's why we are where we are, it's not exclusively one side's fault.

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Old
12-16-2012, 10:19 AM
  #841
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Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
Yeah, a $67.25 cap number AND make whole is really the players giving back lol. More of Fehr's fuzzy math.

Both sides are just as obstinate, just as greedy. That's why we are where we are, it's not exclusively one side's fault.
But the players more so


Sorry it slipped

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Old
12-16-2012, 10:27 AM
  #842
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But the players more so


Sorry it slipped
And the owners aren't? In a way, they're even more disingenous offering contracts they had no intention of fully honoring months later.

If anything I think the players are blinded by their hatred of Bettman and the owners' hypocrisy - not to mention that stupid initial offer which only served to galvanize the players more. The deal they're being offered now really isn't that bad, it just looks like the worst deal in the history of mankind to them because of who's offering it.

The players already made their stand, they didn't take the stupid initial proposal and got some other minor concessions. Now it's time to deal, but I don't think Fehr wants to deal. I think he wants to scorch-earth.

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Old
12-16-2012, 11:20 AM
  #843
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Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
And the owners aren't? In a way, they're even more disingenous offering contracts they had no intention of fully honoring months later.
The owners aren't motivated by greed, the players are.

The owners are motivated by egregious egos, and guilty of moronic business practices.

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12-16-2012, 11:57 AM
  #844
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Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
The owners aren't motivated by greed, the players are.

The owners are motivated by egregious egos, and guilty of moronic business practices.
If you were a twitter, I'd follow you

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Old
12-16-2012, 12:35 PM
  #845
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The owners are definitely at least partially motivated by greed. Otherwise why try to nickel and dime the players down every time the CBA expires? They are trying to be cheap each time.

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Old
12-16-2012, 01:19 PM
  #846
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The owners are definitely at least partially motivated by greed. Otherwise why try to nickel and dime the players down every time the CBA expires? They are trying to be cheap each time.
No they're not.

The owners are just trying to be slightly less moronic than they already are.

With a handful of exceptions, the NHL is bad business. About 1/2 the teams don't even make money.

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12-16-2012, 02:05 PM
  #847
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Right, but I don't think it is those owners who are the hardliners who are prolonging the lockout from the owners' side. It is the richer owners like Jacobs, Snider, Illitch, and so on, who are making sure that Bettman stays with the extreme position.

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Old
12-16-2012, 04:36 PM
  #848
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I still refuse to take a side in this matter.
I don't see the point in choosing one over the other.
For either side, it's not about the game of hockey... but their own personal win in these negotiations.

Each side wants a W and I'm not going to give it to them. They're all an embarrassment.

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Old
12-16-2012, 05:06 PM
  #849
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They all look like a bunch of pathetic sheeple standing up there next to Don. Crosby, and company. They all go around when they're standing up there with this oppressed, frustrated look on their faces. Like show me some sympathy. Go **** yourselves ain't getting none from me.

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12-16-2012, 05:10 PM
  #850
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I'm for a healthier league. That makes me support the owners.

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